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A Million ways to make Money!

  • #21
  • Jun 15, 2011 1:06am Jun 15, 2011 1:06am
Quoting privatefr
but it doesn't matter how many times you explain these things to them, they will say yes and agree, but do the same things again and again.
crucialpoint : perhaps i have missed the point. but sentences like the above from privatefr do nothing more than shout to the world "hey i'm great, and all you other fools are too dumb to understand. watch me repeat myself and see how dumb you all are for not understanding. hawhaw noobs".

condescending bullshit doesn't help anyone and is purely for the lulz and ego stroke.

of course no one is going to reveal their edge. you and i both know this and understand why it has to be this way. the magician rarely reveals the secrets behind his tricks.

your 'diary' as it were that you had in the main forum for awhile you said was just some of the thinking you logged throughout your journey... now with that a part of me wonders how much of that was a) even in the order of revelation, or relevance, and b) how much of it was later discarded as pointless and not worth further thinking (or to put it another way, red-herrings / traps for us to waste our time on, or realize they are misdirections and then give you the secret "i get it" wink and secret handshake).

there are enough idiots spouting crap on the forum, and i'm no doubt one of them. some of us KNOW that we don't understand. pointing this out does not 'help' make. teaching a man to fish is not the same as pointing out how much fish you just caught and how great one is and how obvious it is to you how to catch all of these fish. anyway, back to the grind...

there really are a million ways to make money. i care not one bit about any of them. i want to know how to KEEP the money!
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #22
  • Jun 15, 2011 2:01am Jun 15, 2011 2:01am
Quoting nubcake
your 'diary' as it were that you had in the main forum for awhile you said was just some of the thinking you logged throughout your journey... now with that a part of me wonders how much of that was

a) even in the order of revelation, or relevance, and
b) how much of it was later discarded as pointless and not worth further thinking (or to put it another way, red-herrings / traps for us to waste our time on, or realize they are misdirections.
A) I think the order of revelation is unimportant because it was not a system laid out as ABCD. Those were concepts to implement and certain things that were ever hardly talked in public. But to answer your question, those post was at least 90% was NOT in chronological order of my learning process (as posted). But they are the foundations.

B) Its hard to believe and it is hard to accept... With my current trading system/method I don't deal with patterns, trendlines, history, fibonacci or the current way of technical analysis... and it is hypocrisy that I don't do price actions nor naked charts, and yet uses 1 TF and 3 indicators. You can't throw away TA/FA away without being successful at it, because what are you going to use? What I posted were still worth pursuing. Of course I was trying to bust the myths regarding Stop loss, MTF, Indicators, Higher vs Lower TF, etc.. And then there were the crucial foundations I mentioned that must never be neglected.

That thread represented only 5% of what I learned and discovered about trading.

======
If you were to ask my current understandings... I would say that whatever the public has been taught about TA and FA are 90% BS. Nevertheless it will make you *some* money... but not enough money, to trade in your jocks in the pacific islands, drinking cocktails.
  • #23
  • Jun 15, 2011 2:20am Jun 15, 2011 2:20am
Quoting CrucialPoint
A) I think the order of revelation is unimportant because it was not a system laid out as ABCD. Those were concepts to implement and certain things that were ever hardly talked in public. But to answer your question, those post was at least 90% was NOT in chronological order of my learning process (as posted). But they are the foundations.

B) Its hard to believe and it is hard to accept... With my current trading system/method I don't deal with patterns, trendlines, history, fibonacci or the current way of technical analysis... and...
regarding....

a) to me the order does have importance because it shows the evolution of mindset. if later posts are about stuff that you had since moved right on from a long time ago then it is regressing from evolved thinking to earlier primal concepts and a bit like listening to a scratched record skipping from track to track.

personally, i'm easily lost in unfamiliar places. the (literal) city where i live easily gets me turned-around and i know generally where i am but not well-enough to find my way back without meandering around until hitting a landmark i know. unless i take the same paths in and out each time then i do get somewhat lost and lose my bearings with just a simple wrong turn.

now, taking what is truly a personal failing of mine and applying this to reading someone elses thoughts on a subject... well, if you don't go from a to b to c then i'm guaranteed to lose my bearings.

but, it's not for you or anyone else to hold my hand, and i never have and never will expect it. i'm simply calling it as i see it and perhaps you hadn't considered something to be relevant or important when in fact it is. that, or you just didn't really care about this aspect, in which case... oh well *shrug*.

b onwards) totally. i can't help but think that you and a few others have found a way to consistently place yourselves within areas of volatility coupled with momentum that will hit a SL for a small fee or carry you to multiple R wins, and you can just grind this action over and over. i have no doubt you don't look at patterns as others do and deal with the fairytales like others who are hitting trades randomly, so i'm sure the timeframe and indicators you use are simply to 'measure the wind' so to speak, and not to trade on the patterns within the clouds.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #24
  • Jun 15, 2011 2:33am Jun 15, 2011 2:33am
Quoting nubcake
so i'm sure the timeframe and indicators you use are simply to 'measure the wind' so to speak, and not to trade on the patterns within the clouds.
Exactly right ... because any major player right this moment can come in the market and no amount of TA or FA will justify his actions for pressing the button. For all we know he sneezed and accidentally pressed the button and the price will move. This is a million dollar lesson

Let's not hijack the thread.... sorry NewYear.

As you were ladies and gents...
  • #25
  • Jun 15, 2011 6:13am Jun 15, 2011 6:13am



"95% of the time price will close above or below the open." Amateurs will never see the edge in this quote, unless a professional point it out where the edge lies within this quote.






I have always been trying to make sense of this since I first read it some time ago.



There is a shark within this magic eye illustration (No BS). Can you see the shark? Only a trained eye can see it. Only a trained eye can see the edge within the charts. That is the difference between an Amateur trader and a Professional trader. Amateurs carry so much limiting beliefs that they are so blinded by their own psychology. You cannot create a solid method without tearing down your limiting beliefs










There are actually 2 sharks as well as another fish LOL.
  • #26
  • Jun 15, 2011 6:33am Jun 15, 2011 6:33am
Quoting CrucialPoint
Exactly right ... because any major player right this moment can come in the market and no amount of TA or FA will justify his actions for pressing the button. For all we know he sneezed and accidentally pressed the button and the price will move. This is a million dollar lesson

Let's not hijack the thread.... sorry NewYear.

As you were ladies and gents...
Your not hijacking.. if this thread is sparking debate and thoughts that have yet to result in name calling.. its probably one of the best newest threads on FF..

  • #27
  • Jun 15, 2011 6:40am Jun 15, 2011 6:40am
Quoting nubcake

there really are a million ways to make money. i care not one bit about any of them. i want to know how to KEEP the money!
I'd say this still fits into what I mentioned.. psychology...
  • #28
  • Jun 15, 2011 6:44am Jun 15, 2011 6:44am
Quoting Waforex
There are actually 2 sharks as well as another fish LOL.
you are kidding right? do tell where/how?
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #29
  • Jun 15, 2011 8:17am Jun 15, 2011 8:17am
Quoting nubcake
you are kidding right? do tell where/how?
Just swimming side by side. Try staring at it for a while and kind of look thru beyond the 2 dimensional image and you should see it in 3D.

Any thoughts on crucial points statement about 95% of the time price closing above or below its open. I've not worked that out yet LOL.
  • #30
  • Jun 15, 2011 8:24am Jun 15, 2011 8:24am
Quoting Waforex
Just swimming side by side. Try staring at it for a while and kind of look thru beyond the 2 dimensional image and you should see it in 3D.

Any thoughts on crucial points statement about 95% of the time price closing above or below its open. I've not worked that out yet LOL.
i don't see it. i see the 3d magic-eye shark... are you referring to the 2 bits underneath it towards the tail-fin? i figured that was the right hand find as well as some minor under-fin that i didn't know sharks had *confused*.

as for the 95% quote... you don't get many doji's, all non-doji's have some degree of size. making something of it, well, that's another discussion.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #31
  • Jun 15, 2011 8:26am Jun 15, 2011 8:26am
Give me a billion and I will turn you into a millionaire quickly.
  • #32
  • Jun 22, 2011 8:26am Jun 22, 2011 8:26am
I guess if one where to fully automate and test the systems on FF they would see if the "rules" that describe such systems do indeed make the profitable long term.

If these "rules" bantered with abc system dont provide a positive expectancy in its back/forward test then my personal conclusion is:

1) the system in itself is flawed.

2) the rules and/or system are flawed.

3) the system developer didnt go into 100% detail with his rules, and as such, applies discretion TO his rules.

So when automated to test its validity it doesnt work, then it is possible its discretion/experience that is making the difference.

Thats my conclusion.
  • #33
  • Jun 22, 2011 8:31am Jun 22, 2011 8:31am
Quoting Pipalicious
I guess if one where to fully automate and test the systems on FF they would see if the "rules" that describe such systems do indeed make the profitable long term.

If these "rules" bantered with abc system dont provide a positive expectancy in its back/forward test then my personal conclusion is:

1) the system in itself is flawed.

2) the rules and/or system are flawed.

3) the system developer didnt go into 100% detail with his rules, and as such, applies discretion TO his rules.

So when automated to test its validity it doesnt...
Hey, I mentioned this in "Thinking outside the box" but since you brought it up here let me copy and paste.. this is a great point you raise!




WHAT PROFESSIONALS HAVE IN COMMON

One of the things I notice when comparing the long term professionals to long term losers.. and this is across all professions forex included


the majority of professionals all share the trait of being discretionary

I have never seen a professional poker player, professional forex trader, or professional business man have a strict system they follow and win in the long term

there is ofcourse a game plan.. guidelines to follow, as with a professional football(US) player.. you line up.. you have a play.. but when the QB says "hike" discretion takes over..

This is why I believe EA's unless programmed very intelligently and elegantly.. are hopeless dreams for many.. and systems from the system thread as well..



form a Game Plan.. not a System.. and experience will improve on your discretion to make winning decisions
  • #34
  • Jun 22, 2011 8:37am Jun 22, 2011 8:37am
Really interesting and insightful stuff. A refreshing change from some of the tired old cliches on a lot of the forums!!
  • #35
  • Jun 22, 2011 9:21am Jun 22, 2011 9:21am
Quoting newyear498
there is ofcourse a game plan.. guidelines to follow, as with a professional football(US) player.. you line up.. you have a play.. but when the QB says "hike" discretion takes over..
Exactly. And this here is the reason why "genuine" mechanical systems are NOT shared. If too many new, the mechanical approach becomes "predictable" for others to exploit. Who in their right mind would do this?

However! discretionary approached shared publicly? Sure why not!
Because certain elements are discretional, which takes me to the comment I left before. Its these discretionary elements within a discretionary approach which must be inherently developed by the trader him/her self.

And in total honesty, with this in mind, one might as well develop from scratch their own approach...

Quoting newyear498
This is why I believe EA's unless programmed very intelligently and elegantly.. are hopeless dreams for many.. and systems from the system thread as well..
I do believe that there are automated systems that do very well, providing they adapt to market conditions, but again, they wont be divulged and certainly not sold for 49$ and half a cheese burger.

That would be plain F~%ing stupid.
  • #36
  • Jun 22, 2011 9:38am Jun 22, 2011 9:38am
Quoting Pipalicious
Exactly. And this here is the reason why "genuine" mechanical systems are NOT shared. If too many new, the mechanical approach becomes "predictable" for others to exploit. Who in their right mind would do this?

However! discretionary approached shared publicly? Sure why not!
Because certain elements are discretional, which takes me to the comment I left before. Its these discretionary elements within a discretionary approach which must be inherently developed by the trader him/her self.

And in total honesty, with this in mind, one might...
EA's best feature IMO is simply managing a few things while your away from screen.. when you get a chance to check on things you do what you have to do.. want to trail swing lows or something.. but also want to go eat a cheeseburger.. EA can help lock in profits.. not exactly the best tool to use for all aspects of trading tho

on the side note I'm also certain there is a profitable EA out there in a bank somewhere that uses a very low key mathematical concept someone at MIT developed..



by the way.. how come no one from MIT is on FF... SOB I need to find those bastards
  • #37
  • Jun 22, 2011 9:51am Jun 22, 2011 9:51am
Quoting newyear498
EA's best feature IMO is simply managing a few things while your away from screen.. when you get a chance to check on things you do what you have to do.. want to trail swing lows or something.. but also want to go eat a cheeseburger.. EA can help lock in profits.. not exactly the best tool to use for all aspects of trading tho

on the side note I'm also certain there is a profitable EA out there in a bank somewhere that uses a very low key mathematical concept someone at MIT developed..



by the way.. how come no one from MIT is on FF......



Freaking hilarious...This is gonna be my next forex strategy for sure..Find one of those MIT bastards and force him to code an EA for me.
  • #38
  • Jun 22, 2011 9:58am Jun 22, 2011 9:58am
Quoting J.W. Holmes


Freaking hilarious...This is gonna be my next forex strategy for sure..Find one of those MIT bastards and force him to code an EA for me.
lol right.. those bastards beat blackjack they can beat anything
  • #39
  • Jun 22, 2011 10:24am Jun 22, 2011 10:24am
Quoting J.W. Holmes


Freaking hilarious...This is gonna be my next forex strategy for sure..Find one of those MIT bastards and force him to code an EA for me.
Now that sounds like a good winning stategy!!!
  • #40
  • Jun 22, 2011 10:36am Jun 22, 2011 10:36am
Quoting CrucialPoint
You cannot create a solid method without tearing down your limiting beliefs
Just too right!
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