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Higher low, lower high system

  • #4,161
  • May 20, 2011 4:02am May 20, 2011 4:02am
There was a nice HL about 60M after LO (a 100% system trade). Problem was entry was just below todays open, MR1 and yH. I did take it, and it worked out ok.
  • #4,162
  • May 20, 2011 4:18am May 20, 2011 4:18am
Check out these 2 sites - only 2 years differnce between posts.........

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=108544

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...ighs-8164.html

How's Mrs V? Is she still JUST been industed into the '20pips Hall of Fame'?....

Care to come clean?....
  • #4,163
  • May 20, 2011 5:38am May 20, 2011 5:38am
Quoting shaneo
Check out these 2 sites - only 2 years differnce between posts.........

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=108544

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...ighs-8164.html

How's Mrs V? Is she still JUST been industed into the '20pips Hall of Fame'?....

Care to come clean?....
Mrs V is still a life long member of the 20 pips bank hall of fame.

And to prove it we got entry here 4320, 15 min engulfing neg close at the extreme, 5 min shooting star lh little/no lower wick.

Didn't bother with a live trade screen shot wasn't going to post it. Anyway Mrs V quite happily said we're entering the quiet time 20's fine. Move went a little further. Apart from Medici (posted trade on psych levels thread) who knew???

If we had thought just a little better we woulda/coulda/shoulda realised that the tiny move up and fail would more than likely mean a bigger move down. That doesn't help now so we move on.

Oh and Snow Dog comes from the legendary Rush song By-tor and the Snow Dog, but then everyone knew that already, didn't they!!
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  • #4,164
  • May 20, 2011 5:44am May 20, 2011 5:44am
Quoting Vantage
Mrs V is still a life long member of the 20 pips bank hall of fame.

And to prove it we got entry here 4320, 15 min engulfing neg close at the extreme, 5 min shooting star lh little/no lower wick.

Didn't bother with a live trade screen shot wasn't going to post it. Anyway Mrs V quite happily said we're entering the quiet time 20's fine. Move went a little further. Apart from Medici (posted trade on psych levels thread) who knew???

If we had thought just a little better we woulda/coulda/shoulda realised that the tiny move up and fail would more...
But all is forgiven (well I agreed and pressed the button) Mrs V has just returned from the shops and bought a nice slab of Cadbury's whole nut chocolate. She has suggested I don't eat 180g slab in one go. Weight loss discussions will be put on hold...........
  • #4,165
  • May 20, 2011 5:46am May 20, 2011 5:46am
Quoting Vantage
Hi Ian
Yesterday was all about small ranges and good 15 min candles at extremes. I'll say at or near extremes. GU in the chart wasn't at its extreme for the day but the prev extreme 6130 was quickly turned for a move up and later became an inverted H + S at the 6150 level. So 6150 was important.

Its one of those decisions that you make. Supp, res areas are key and if you have good candles at those levels will you be happy with a trade there or beat yourself up. Y I was happy with that one. Do I spot them all the time, no far from it, Y just happened...
Thanks Vantage, Yes I can see that 6150 level now quite clearly formed support at the bottom of the two shoulders. Then the trade you took 15 min hammer off 6150 coincident with 5 min hl/engulfing close. 1 hr not broken to downside.

Quoting Vantage
Ian this is just an example from this morning....
Cheers for the detailed explanation. That GU trade is blindingly obvious now after that analysis. Managed to miss the EU move completely as well somehow.

Roll on next week.
Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,166
  • May 20, 2011 8:33am May 20, 2011 8:33am
Quoting Ian
Thanks Vantage, Yes I can see that 6150 level now quite clearly formed support at the bottom of the two shoulders. Then the trade you took 15 min hammer off 6150 coincident with 5 min hl/engulfing close. 1 hr not broken to downside.
We saw gu just missed it but it did alert us to the eur trade 5 mins later.
  • #4,167
  • Edited May 21, 2011 3:20am May 20, 2011 10:20am | Edited May 21, 2011 3:20am
Trades I should not have taken:

Number 1: EU Buy 1.4334 at 9.35 UK time.

1 hr bullish engulfing, 15 min hammer, 5 min hl no upper wick.

Unfortunately after that 1 hr bar I was so keen to get long that I managed to convince myself that a negative close 15 min candle was, in fact, a hammer. That mistake allowed me to place a buy oder above the 9.30 bar which was just triggered. If I had had the patience to wait for the positive close 15 min candle which followed there would have been no long entry.

Vantage, as you say look for nice/good 15 min candles, that was not one of them.



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Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,168
  • Edited May 21, 2011 8:26am May 20, 2011 10:36am | Edited May 21, 2011 8:26am
Number 2:

GU long at 1.6265 after close of 10.50 bar.

1 hr positive close bar did have large upper wick which was the first warning sign ignored. Price then starts going sideways which was the second warning sign ignored. Should have realised that it was late European morning sideways action and stayed away. Had move up from the bottom of the range giving a 15 min pos close bar.

Hardly a stellar bar though. (Sorry for continued use of the word bar when my charts show candles, I learnt my price action over at J16 and so used a bar chart for over two years.)

5 min bar had little upper wick but barely closed above the range however, for some reason, I felt it good enough to place an order above. What happened next was not what i was expecting.

Well I managed to end up positive for the week thanks to 3R trade yesterday. Just need to concentrate on good bars at good locations and cut out the iffy trades.

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Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,169
  • May 20, 2011 4:40pm May 20, 2011 4:40pm
Thanks a lot Vantage ! It is great to learn from You ! ... and you are right, I entered this trade a bit too early. One full pip was on the next candle. I will need to pay attention to that in my future trades.

I will have a look on Psych Levels, Pivots and Trendlines over the weekend.
Thanks again !

Quoting Vantage
Welcome here.

Hey whats to say, apart from nice trade. Neg 1hr, 15 min rolled over lots of upper wicks, nice 5 min lh. Looks like you might have entered before 1 pip below set up candle but thats just me and apologies if I'm seeing chart wrong.

Love it!!

PS if you haven't seen thread in above post go there also, complimentary styles and a must read.
"A goal without a plan is just a wish" - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • #4,170
  • May 20, 2011 5:18pm May 20, 2011 5:18pm
I have just noticed that we took the same trade on EUR/USD this morning.

- 4H pinbar - strong rejection of Fib R1 level
- 1H candle with negative close (2H Pinbar)
- doji on 15 min
- 5 min negative close under the 8 LWMA

A few minutes later the price crossed also the 8 LWMA on 1H charts.

SL 16 pips

Half of the position closed at +16 pips
Second half manually trailed and closed at +75 pips

All your comments are very much welcomed and thanks again for this powerful system !
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"A goal without a plan is just a wish" - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • #4,171
  • Edited 4:40am May 21, 2011 3:30am | Edited 4:40am
Quoting Ian
Had move up from the bottom of the range giving a 15 min pos close bar.

5 min bar had little upper wick but barely closed above the range however, for some reason, I felt it good enough to place an order above.
In fact the 15 min bar did not close until after the 5 min doji, so strict application of system would have had buy stop above the doji which would not have triggered.

The two trades I showed are a good example of the system's ability to keep you out of bad trades and the fact I had two losers is because of my lack of strict application of the system.
Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,172
  • Edited 4:41am May 21, 2011 3:35am | Edited 4:41am
Quoting trzcinek
I have just noticed that we took the same trade on EUR/USD this morning.

- 4H pinbar - strong rejection of Fib R1 level
- 1H candle with negative close (2H Pinbar)
- doji on 15 min
- 5 min negative close under the 8 LWMA

A few minutes later the price crossed also the 8 LWMA on 1H charts.

SL 16 pips

Half of the position closed at +16 pips
Second half manually trailed and closed at +75 pips

All your comments are very much welcomed and thanks again for this powerful system !
Nice trading, Trzcinek, that was a trade that I wished I had been in yesterday. This is indeed a simple and powerful method when applied correctly, (see my posts above). Hope to see more of your trades soon.
Follow, don't anticipate.
  • #4,173
  • May 21, 2011 5:22am May 21, 2011 5:22am
Quoting Ian
Just need to concentate on good bars at good locations and cut out the iffy trades.
That's prob one of the most vital lessons in trading of course. Spotting your problems and not repeating them. That never ends well. wait for the good set ups. A poor trade that works out is prob one of the worst things that can happen, you tend to think that you can trade everything.

Next one is not to worry too much when price moves against your 'good' candles. If you have been able to spot a hammer that fails to follow through higher for example and can get in on a resumption of trend down (chosen those last words carefully) all well and good.

I suppose last one for now is after a losing trade if you keep your head you might get a trade very quickly, like your above buy if I recall became a valid sell soon after, avoid revenge trading at all costs.
  • #4,174
  • May 21, 2011 5:32am May 21, 2011 5:32am
Quoting trzcinek
Thanks a lot Vantage ! It is great to learn from You ! ... and you are right, I entered this trade a bit too early. One full pip was on the next candle. I will need to pay attention to that in my future trades.

I will have a look on Psych Levels, Pivots and Trendlines over the weekend.
Thanks again !
It started I think more as a long term trading thread, carried on by eyevoltage, now short term trading. Over the past year or two they concentrate on candles and a few chart patterns at those important psych levels, SR areas and of course pivots.

There are several guys posting great set ups, the 2 threads compliment each other extremely well I think.
  • #4,175
  • May 21, 2011 5:45am May 21, 2011 5:45am
Quoting trzcinek
I have just noticed that we took the same trade on EUR/USD this morning.

SL 16 pips

Half of the position closed at +16 pips
Second half manually trailed and closed at +75 pips

All your comments are very much welcomed and thanks again for this powerful system !
Whats to say, same trade so nice one. Nailed it on the exit. Very, very nice.

I'd like to soon change the tendency we have had for a while now of 20 pips bank. In earlier days of this thread I was regularly getting bigger trades. Mrs V firmly residing in the 20 pips bank and take next trade camp. It is so ingrained and seemingly hard for us to shake we cannot keep in mind the old adage that after LO head fake has reared its pretty head then a decent range follows majority of time. This happens so frequently that there is a 1 2 3 top/bottom trader that ONLY looks for reversals in and around LO.

As you did bank portion, let balance run and if you get good set up re-enter. Will continue to work on this and of course on Mrs V.
  • #4,176
  • May 21, 2011 8:13am May 21, 2011 8:13am
Quoting Ian
Nice trading, Trzcinek, that was a trade that I wished I had been in yesterday. This is indeed a simple and powerful method when applied correctly, (see my posts above). Hope to see more of your trades soon.
Thanks Ian.

I really like this method and Vanatage is so patient to answer all the questions ! Fantastic. As for me the most important is to wait for A+ (perfect) PA setups on the key levels (RN, pivots etc.) on 1H or even on 4H (stronger signals).

I feel also more comfortable to take a trade when it is confirmed by the P&I analysis (currency strength indicator), but this is just a way to filter out weak setups.

I have been trading PA setups on 4H and dailies for some time now and it is profitable, but i didn't like the huge SL. This method is just PERFECT to fine tune the entry and to limit the risk.

Have a great WE !
"A goal without a plan is just a wish" - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • #4,177
  • Edited 8:38am May 21, 2011 8:32am | Edited 8:38am
Quoting Vantage
Whats to say, same trade so nice one. Nailed it on the exit. Very, very nice.

I'd like to soon change the tendency we have had for a while now of 20 pips bank. In earlier days of this thread I was regularly getting bigger trades. Mrs V firmly residing in the 20 pips bank and take next trade camp. It is so ingrained and seemingly hard for us to shake we cannot keep in mind the old adage that after LO head fake has reared its pretty head then a decent range follows majority of time. This happens so frequently that there is a 1 2 3 top/bottom trader...

Thank you very much Vantage. It is very motivating.

I'm sure you have many ideas of your own regarding bigger trades management, but if only it may help I would like to share what is working very well for me.

I'm always splitting my positions in two halfs : 1/ with 1:1 Risk Reward ratio (SL above last swing high/low + spread i.e. 16 pips and TP 16 pips, as per my last trade) 2/ same SL as 1, but trailing the SL behind the last TA (trouble area).

SL to BE on both positions when the price goes through the first TA.

The good side of it is that you have pips from the first postion cashed fast (I understood it is important for Mrs V :-), your SL is on BE by then and after it is only pure profit on another half :-)

Ah, I would forget ... I use scripts to open and close all positions. It's very fast and handy !
"A goal without a plan is just a wish" - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
  • #4,178
  • May 22, 2011 5:07am May 22, 2011 5:07am
Quoting trzcinek
I'm always splitting my positions in two halfs : 1/ with 1:1 Risk Reward ratio (SL above last swing high/low + spread i.e. 16 pips and TP 16 pips, as per my last trade) 2/ same SL as 1, but trailing the SL behind the last TA (trouble area).

SL to BE on both positions when the price goes through the first TA.

The good side of it is that you have pips from the first postion cashed fast (I understood it is important for Mrs V :-), your SL is on BE by then and after it is only pure profit on another half :-)

Ah, I would forget ... I use scripts to...
Mrs V hasn't been happy with a number of split trades where we have had 60% at say +20, stop to BE only to see stop taken out and another signal given in same direction. Hence her take out all and re-enter preference. Of course her memory is hazy on the number of times we haven't quite had good enough candles to re-enter, or the potential entry has been right on a RN and we have exited early on a 50-70 pip trade. I suppose its all about finding the balance between what works for your whole trading method and the desire to carry on learning/trading better (and getting more pips).

One thing I'm looking at is after LO head fake to take partial profits at 20, leave stop at say -10 looking for a free trade as it were and hoping to get more of those moves. Looking then for exit at 2nd psych level/pivot for a 40-60 pip trade. Its amazing how many +20 moves would hit a stop at BE but a small stop wouldn't get touched.

FH still banking at psych levels. We'll see, Mrs V can be a tough nut to crack. Not the end of the world though.
  • #4,179
  • Edited 5:32am May 22, 2011 5:14am | Edited 5:32am
Quoting trzcinek
Ah, I would forget ... I use scripts to open and close all positions. It's very fast and handy !
OK, which script do you use?

The currency strength meter is that freely available and really effective? I see in that last eur sell, eur was only marginally weaker than $, 2.8 to 1.8 (or whatever) so I was wondering. I tried one CSM for a while and still intrigued by the idea but Mrs V not convinced which = hates with a passion, take off the charts. Yes I did say she was a tough nut to crack, if not proven better for her she's not interested .
  • #4,180
  • May 22, 2011 4:59pm May 22, 2011 4:59pm
Quoting Vantage
Mrs V hasn't been happy with a number of split trades where we have had 60% at say +20, stop to BE only to see stop taken out and another signal given in same direction. Hence her take out all and re-enter preference. Of course her memory is hazy on the number of times we haven't quite had good enough candles to re-enter, or the potential entry has been right on a RN and we have exited early on a 50-70 pip trade. I suppose its all about finding the balance between what works for your whole trading method and the desire to carry on learning/trading...
A bird in hand is worth two in the bush :-) I think I can perfectly understand Mrs V TP management :-) I have also noticed how often the SL is hit once moved to BE early. And that is why I try to do exactly what you intend to do for the LO head fake. I close first half at 1:1 without moving the SL to BE, if my SL is hit it still like BE since the first half have already been cashed. The idea comes from 'The Dance' thread and it works nice for me :-)
"A goal without a plan is just a wish" - Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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