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anyone here make 20 pips a day...

  • #1
  • First Post: May 20, 2011 2:43am May 20, 2011 2:43am
HI every one

I've a question . Is there anyone here make 20 pips per day ? if so , How long you've been doing ? are you satisfy ?

It's important ,

Thanks
  • #2
  • May 20, 2011 3:39am May 20, 2011 3:39am
Quoting hno2005
HI every one

I've a question . Is there anyone here make 20 pips per day ? if so , How long you've been doing ? are you satisfy ?

It's important ,

Thanks
The following is just my opinion:
I think that is the major issue newbies have when starting to trade. Everybody is used to their paychecks from their job and think trading is similar or can be similar. Thus they require also to be paid by the market daily, weekly or monthly. And the best would be with a high win/loss strategy.

Problem is that proper trading normally requires you to make many small losses and b/e trades over days, weeks or even months depending on your strategy. Only a handful of trades will eventually catapult you into profitability.

Thus I would be very cautious of this 20 pips a day mindset.
  • #3
  • May 20, 2011 7:14am May 20, 2011 7:14am
Quoting Custos
The following is just my opinion:
I think that is the major issue newbies have when starting to trade. Everybody is used to their paychecks from their job and think trading is similar or can be similar. Thus they require also to be paid by the market daily, weekly or monthly. And the best would be with a high win/loss strategy.

Problem is that proper trading normally requires you to make many small losses and b/e trades over days, weeks or even months depending on your strategy. Only a handful of trades will eventually catapult you into profitability....
so , are you making 20 pips per day for a long time ? For examples about 2 or 3 month ?
  • #4
  • May 20, 2011 7:31am May 20, 2011 7:31am
Quoting hno2005
so , are you making 20 pips per day for a long time ? For examples about 2 or 3 month ?
did you even read my post?
  • #5
  • May 20, 2011 7:55am May 20, 2011 7:55am
Quoting Custos
did you even read my post?
It's amazing how many listen to the voices in their heads instead of what people say to them.
  • #6
  • May 20, 2011 9:36am May 20, 2011 9:36am
Try daily, weekly, and monthly goals. Trick your mind. For example, if you can not get 20 pips per day, then move to next target, 50-100 pips for week, then monthly...

This method can help you remain goal oriented and be ready for next steps. Goal setting is key.
  • #7
  • Edited 4:54pm May 20, 2011 9:36am | Edited 4:54pm
Quoting hno2005
HI every one

I've a question . Is there anyone here make 20 pips per day ? if so , How long you've been doing ? are you satisfy ?

It's important ,

Thanks
You've got two choices:

1. Google something like "20 pips per day" and try some of the strategies outlined there, but be prepared to learn the hard way. The last one I saw used a 30 pip SL to make the 20 pips, and its inventor stated that the way to overcome the poor RR was to double up following each loss, i.e. a martingale. LOL.

2. Re-read Custos' earlier post, and then possibly these ones also:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...799#post205799
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...57#post3170457

Then, if you're still serious about making money, you might read some threads like these:

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=245149
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=121761
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=2331
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=86429
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=241760

and then be willing to put in some serious screen time, and practise, in refining these ideas for yourself.

Here's a final thought for you: real pros focus on managing risk, rather than their ROE. So perhaps you could invert your idea, and aim to lose no more than 20 pips per day, and take whatever the market decides to give you. Just a thought.

David
  • #8
  • May 20, 2011 10:42am May 20, 2011 10:42am
Quoting hno2005
HI every one

I've a question . Is there anyone here make 20 pips per day ? if so , How long you've been doing ? are you satisfy ?

It's important ,

Thanks
Why just 20 pips per day? The trading mindset needs to be broader than that. There will be some days where you do extremely well, others you come out BE or there abouts and others where you take a hit on the chin. IMO it is how you handle and move on from the last option that will see you succeed or fail. Manage your drawdown whilst striving for new equity highs, take what the market will give you. So often you take those little 20 pip moves to see the market run 200 pips that day, the next 2 days you miss those 20 pips and take losses, kind of makes a drag on the approach.

To answer your question though I dont know if I ave more than 20 pips a day? My account is just below an equity high which is a quite a bit higher than when I started. I have been quite successful (cash positive) for probably close to 2 odd years, nothing spectacular by what most (the uber rookies) would like but still cash positive. Is pips per day important, not really. Drawdown management/cash management is far more important plus there are so many other factors than just 20 pips

RT
  • #9
  • May 20, 2011 10:43am May 20, 2011 10:43am
Quoting hanover
You've got two choices:

1. Google something like "20 pips per day" and try some of the strategies outlined there, but be prepared to learn the hard way. The last one I saw used a 30 pip SL to make the 20 pips, and its inventor stated that the way to overcome the poor RR was to double up following each loss, i.e. a martingale. LOL.

2. Re-read Custos' earlier post, and then possibly these ones also:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...799#post205799
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...57#post3170457...
Exactly reasons why I consider you a legend around here.
  • #10
  • May 20, 2011 5:05pm May 20, 2011 5:05pm
Quoting Razor_trader
Why just 20 pips per day? The trading mindset needs to be broader than that. There will be some days where you do extremely well, others you come out BE or there abouts and others where you take a hit on the chin. IMO it is how you handle and move on from the last option that will see you succeed or fail. Manage your drawdown whilst striving for new equity highs, take what the market will give you. So often you take those little 20 pip moves to see the market run 200 pips that day, the next 2 days you miss those 20 pips and take losses, kind of...
Exactly right. There are winning days, and losing days. You can't take more than the market is willing to give you. Even the best technical strategies can be upset occasionally by randomness.


Quoting pinoyboy
Goal setting is key.
Personally, I've found goal setting to be counter-productive. If you fall behind with your daily/weekly/monthly goal, you must either overtrade (take inferior quality setups), increase your risk, or simply acknowledge that the goal was unrealistic, and therefore worthless.

Still, each to their own.
  • #11
  • Edited 2:48pm May 21, 2011 3:38am | Edited 2:48pm
Personally, i support the idea of daily targets because of the dynamic nature of the forex market.

Often atimes, There is this urge to trade more when you are making profits with the thought that this might just be your Day
or
the urge to try to recover bad trades and keep your accounts on the rising side

But as you can see from previous posts not everybody agrees with this Idea. this is because we all have different strategies that have totally different (and maybe contrasting rules).

If you ask me, I'll Advise you to stick with the rules of the system.

The General rule of thumb is;

 

  1. if you trade on smaller timeframes have smaller TP's
    Reason:Because a signal will most probably not last long
  2. if you trade on higher time frames have higher TP's and wider stoplosses (if you use stoplosses)
    Reason:Because a of major price movements in a specific direction (and lots of price fluctuations while your orders are open
  3. if you use trailing stops, allow your orders to float till an exit signal triggers


Food for thought
if we are to leave our various homes for london we will all take different routes

Deduction
There is no one route to sucess

  • #12
  • May 21, 2011 3:48am May 21, 2011 3:48am
Quoting hno2005
HI every one

I've a question . Is there anyone here make 20 pips per day ? if so , How long you've been doing ? are you satisfy ?

It's important ,

Thanks
MAking 20 pips in a day is not hard at all, but making 20 pips every day forever is.

You would need to be thinking about averaging 20 pips a day rather than just that figure.

the problem is no two days are the same, some days are a lot easier than others.

The other thing to remember is that if you start trading and lose 10 pips then 10 pips again, you now need 40 pips to make the goal.

You will have losing days and winning days, so to average 20 pips per day you will need to make more than this on winning days, perhaps 30-40 depending on your system.
  • #13
  • Edited 2:46pm May 21, 2011 5:18am | Edited 2:46pm
Lets be clear on an issue, before we can be talking about daily targets we must consider the type of intra_day trader and his goals.

QUESTION 1
Is he a part_time Forex Trader or a Full_time trader?

Part_time Forex Trader

 

  1. He tries to makes some profits and exit in time so he can attend to his duties or Occupation
  2. He may just be after profits no matter the magnitude or He may be trying to reach a target after a given period


Full_Time Trader

This is his Business, he is all out for profits. He tries to make the most from every market situation

QUESTION 2

Does he have an exit signal or Exits trades based on Stop losses and Take Profits?

Has Exit signals
Then he can hold his positions as far as the signal is not triggered

Uses SLs and TPs
Then he should have targets for his trades and may be for the day

  • #14
  • May 21, 2011 7:10am May 21, 2011 7:10am
Quoting Adewumi
Full_Time Trader

This is Business, he is all out for profits. He tries to make the most from every market situation
As far as I am concerned, this statement is wrong. The full-time trader is all out for risk reduction, not for profits. Profits take care of themselves, but losses don't.
  • #15
  • May 21, 2011 2:44pm May 21, 2011 2:44pm
Quoting Custos
The full-time trader is all out for risk reduction, not for profits.
I dont understand that statement. Do you care to explain (shed more light)?

if a trader is all out for risk reduction he can reduce risk to the barest minimum and still gradually drain his account. As a matter of fact the reverse of that statement makes more sense to me.

If you are out to make profits you will most probably try to reduce your risk.

I may have gotten your statement wrong

but

for me,

I think he should concentrate on making profits and try to reduce is risk in order to achieve that goal(profits).
  • #16
  • May 21, 2011 3:56pm May 21, 2011 3:56pm
Quoting Adewumi
I dont understand that statement. Do you care to explain (shed more light)?

if a trader is all out for risk reduction he can reduce risk to the barest minimum and still gradually drain his account. As a matter of fact the reverse of that statement makes more sense to me.

If you are out to make profits you will most probably try to reduce your risk.

I may have gotten your statement wrong

but

for me,

I think he should concentrate on making profits and try to reduce is risk in order to achieve that goal(profits).
Not to interrupt, but I (also) agree; just thinking aloud.

Making order of the market, on a chart, is the first thing to do, through study.
After order, then profits, then risk. There's risk in how much the chart, in its infinite order, is reasonably understood, and how psychologically effective you are at that time. Otherwise, you walk into a gambling house without an edge in one of the games, and, mostly accepting their order, can only hope for a lucky streak. Even there, if you have a really good order+profits+risk edge -- count cards, (algorithm) scalp -- , the house/broke r can hone in on it.
  • #17
  • May 21, 2011 8:19pm May 21, 2011 8:19pm
Quoting Adewumi
I dont understand that statement. Do you care to explain (shed more light)?

if a trader is all out for risk reduction he can reduce risk to the barest minimum and still gradually drain his account. As a matter of fact the reverse of that statement makes more sense to me.

If you are out to make profits you will most probably try to reduce your risk.

I may have gotten your statement wrong

but

for me,

I think he should concentrate on making profits and try to reduce is risk in order to achieve that goal(profits).
How can you have profit focus before risk. Your initial setup is a measurement of risk which caters for the risk on account (how much you are putting up) and then position size which is the former / your SL position. Only after that can you think of profit, it is like putting the horse before the cart.

Professional traders vary in there approach. Some are long term investors like Buffet and there will be others looking for intraday action therefore profit targets will vary. However risk control and reduction is far superior than a set target for the day. You cannot know what the market will give you. Just taking a fixed target opens you up for long swings of losses which exposes your account. The return mentality of just taking set profit then limits the success, make it difficult to recoup losses unless you employee a higher level of risk (which can backfire and put you in worse shape).

There will be times when you take a set profit, these might be during tight ranges, markets where spikes are occuring however there will be times during strong market trends where taking more than your set limit will be key and the overall factor in either case is to reduce your risk.

In a set profit game provided you need to trail the stop to get to a point of better than 1:1, so that you can over the longer term get to some positive expectancy point otherwise those losses just chew capital.

RT
  • #18
  • May 21, 2011 9:15pm May 21, 2011 9:15pm
Quoting Razor_trader
How can you have profit focus before risk. Your initial setup is a measurement of risk which caters for the risk on account (how much you are putting up) and then position size which is the former / your SL position. Only after that can you think of profit, it is like putting the horse before the cart.

Professional traders vary in there approach. Some are long term investors like Buffet and there will be others looking for intraday action therefore profit targets will vary. However risk control and reduction is far superior than a set target...
Nicely put. I stole this myself from someone - maybe here on FF, I can't remember, but they said..."Risk can be predetermined, Reward is unpredictable". You can always go into a trade knowing what it may end up costing you, you never know what you may gain.

Work your system, day in, day out, over and over and over again - Tally your work at the end of the month. That is the beginning of seeing results. You will start to see what your "batting average" is & it should give you a good idea (if you have kept good records) of where you have opportunities to improve.

M
  • #19
  • May 21, 2011 11:33pm May 21, 2011 11:33pm
Quoting mongolian
Nicely put....
Risk can be predetermined, Reward is unpredictable. that is absolutely true

But

Let's see.......

Here is my line of thinking. My general understanding of a successful trader is one who Steadily or Gradually makes his/her account grow.

if he is to achieve that, he must first of all know that not all trades will be profitable which means that for everytrade he enters (TO MAKE PROFIT) he must reduce his/her risk so that he will not blow all the profits he has been making for a couple of days.

Is this not the reason why there are Risk:Reward ratio like 1:2 or 1:1? etc

In summary,
for your account to grow, you have to make more profits than losses and to attain that, you have to make sure your losses are dont exceed your profits. And that directly implies that you certainly have to reduce the risk in every trade.

Clearer Illustration

He (the trader) is thinking profits (in terms of the gradual increase of his acct balance).To do this, he tries to make strategic decisions like when to enter and exit a trade (with the risk factor at the back of his mind).

THIS IS JUST MY WAY OF SEEING IT. BUT I WOULD CERTAINLY BUY YOUR IDEA IF I CAN SEE IT FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

that's why i am here, isn't it?
  • #20
  • May 22, 2011 2:33am May 22, 2011 2:33am
Quoting Adewumi
I dont understand that statement. Do you care to explain (shed more light)?

if a trader is all out for risk reduction he can reduce risk to the barest minimum and still gradually drain his account. As a matter of fact the reverse of that statement makes more sense to me.

If you are out to make profits you will most probably try to reduce your risk.

I may have gotten your statement wrong

but

for me,

I think he should concentrate on making profits and try to reduce is risk in order to achieve that goal(profits).
yeah, I kind of agree. It's all about risk-adjusted returns.
But, since we are here in the rookie forum, it is important to make the rookies realize that your returns are only as good as your risk management. Shooting for insane returns with insane risk won't turn anybody into a professional. You need to focus more on the risk than on your profits, not the other way around. Then, if you also have a positive expectancy model, you will make money, if the risk to the downside is very controlled.

I actually created some equity curves which showed how a positive expectancy system can be absolutely destroyed with reckless risk management and also how it can smoothen out with proper risk control.
First: many traders don't realize what really the advice means of not risking more than 1 to 3%. If you look at equity curves and risk 5% or higher a trade, the performance of your edge will normally be absolutely destroyed cause of the really high drawdowns you create. Same goes with not using appropriate stop losses, most newbs either don't use any or a very wide stop loss. That will equally deplete your account.
So, proper trading is about risk control with a positive expectancy model. The profits will then take care of themselves.
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