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Are you a trend trader or a counter-trend trader? 29 replies

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Attachments: Flag trading the trend
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Flag trading the trend

Quoting tas0s
I don't know why.

I personally think the new rule is half-assed, and gives more losses.
Be careful saying something like that after someone, DIVERGENCE, has been so helpful and kind to share a system he has proven to be successful. I don't believe someone who puts that much time and effort into trading has a "Half-A@@@@@" system. I don't think your comments are warranted or justified, especially after 14 posts in this forum. Comments like that will drive many away that are sharing their working systems for free. Try and find a mentor that does what Divergence has done over the past few months without paying out the nose. Not going to happen.

Use the rules you want to use and don't destroy/degrade the other rules that have been taught and used by the mentor of this thread. Divergence has never said the original rules don't work. Read his last post. They still work and to each his own. Also, listen to why he modified the rules. He talks of this in the latest video. He states the market has been difficult the past several weeks. Any system will modify and change with the market at times. In the future, we all may be back on the original rules and the market flows again.

Just my 2 cents about coming in and shredding on a part of this system in such a way. Not sure it is warranted or deserved for new readers to see.

This system works and sets a great foundation for many trading methods and fundamentals.
Quoting spike00spieg
can you say why? I can't see the webinars. But the old rules aren't good anymore. In my opinion these rules are just a test or he is bored and wants more trades.

on the other hand, these rules may work better in strong trends when there isn't much noise still it will be helpful if someone can say why he changes the rules.
Just as I stated in my last post, be careful coming in and making blanket comments about a system that you just started reading. Your opinion is your opinion. But until you have read and understand both sets of rules to include the new ones from the video I am not sure you can have an opinion.

I understand you said you cannot see the new video but here is the bottom line that he mentions. He states that the market has been difficult the last several weeks and has been watching/learning about how to still trade in a market that has not had as strong a trend all the time. The system has modified to fit the changes in the market. This is like any system out there. When the market changes, the system may need to change as well. The bottom line is that the basics of the system are the same. Trend trading and waiting for a pullback. You still get in at the same point you used to. You simply have a different stop and take profit. That is about it. There are not more opportunities to trade because there aren't any more pullbacks than there were. So to say that it is a system and he is bored and wants more trades is not correct. There can't be more trades without more signals and the signals are exactly the same as the previous system. 100% the same. Entry parameters are exactly the same. So, this is not about being bored and trying to trade more. It is about getting in and out faster than before. Smaller Take profit, smaller stop. Not a change in the basics of the system.
Lets be perfectly clear here about the new rules.

The basics of the system are EXACTLY the same as they were previously:
Find the trend
Wait for the pullback
Find the Set-up Bar
Enter the Trade
Manage the Trade
Make Money and repeat

The entry parameters are EXACTLY the same as they were previously:
Set-up bar within 2.4 pips of the 10SMA
CCI above or below 50/-50 as appropriate
Enter 1 pip above or below the set-up bar
NONE OF THIS HAS CHANGED.

The changes are to the take profit/stop loss and maximum number of pips risked. Everything else is the same.

That being said, the system is the same. You may end up with a few more trades because of not worrying about the previous swing high or low from 3 weeks ago but in reality you wont have that many more trades. You still have to wait for the set-ups with the current trend.

Read the rules for the new and original. Trade what system you want. They are both still valid. It is up to you on what risk, stop loss and take profit you want to use.

Don't come into this thread for the first time and make blanket comments on either system without understanding the either of them. They both work. Use what you want and learn from both and modify as you see fit. It is up to you.

Enjoy, good luck and happy trading.
Quoting Wally1953
Maximum stop size is no more 26 but 20 pips, thus maximum SUB size is 18 pips. If it's bigger--no trade. Minimum stop is 9 pips (applied if setup bar is too small).
Sorry I made a stupid remark, the system is very good and many many many thanks to Divergence for sharing it and being so helpful.

I have one more question, what maximum SUB size means, in my understanding the stop loss should be one pip bellow/above the setup bar and the entry one pip above/bellow therefore the maximum size of the bar is 18 pips, if bigger no trade. am I right?
Quoting spike00spieg
Sorry I made a stupid remark, the system is very good and many many many thanks to Divergence for sharing it and being so helpful.

I have one more question, what maximum SUB size means, in my understanding the stop loss should be one pip bellow/above the setup bar and the entry one pip above/bellow therefore the maximum size of the bar is 18 pips, if bigger no trade. am I right?
Right.
personally, i c the new rules working just as they r expected to work. i am not turning back so far :-)
thx div and other faithful guys for posting and keeping it tuned and alive
making money in JimB2468 trading room
I have been using the system without reguard to the rule 2.4 of the 10 sma because I don't understand what it would look like on the chart and what is the significance of it anyway. Why does it make a difference? Thanks for any help here.. Bill G
Quoting Cherokee
I have been using the system without reguard to the rule 2.4 of the 10 sma because I don't understand what it would look like on the chart and what is the significance of it anyway. Why does it make a difference? Thanks for any help here.. Bill G
Price will always want to gravitate back to the MA so the farther the price gets away from the MA, the riskier the trade. So the high of the setup candle should be within the 2.4 pips of the MA for a sell and the low of the setup candle for a buy. Same idea with the candle length rule. Any longer than 18 pips and you're getting too far from the MA and taking more risk of a retrace.
Quoting Cherokee
I have been using the system without reguard to the rule 2.4 of the 10 sma because I don't understand what it would look like on the chart and what is the significance of it anyway. Why does it make a difference? Thanks for any help here.. Bill G
price is attracted to the MA as some average price movement,,,when it is further from MA, there is a higher probability it will b pulled back to it ,so u look at an immediate unrealized loss...sure u can show us right away many examples where it worked but its the safety point and human nature rather feels happy and comfortable with the trade 2 b shortly in plus then to sweat blood for the + sign when it starts to pull back right after yr entry,,take the most probable profitable set ups,ready to charge away from MA, thats the point
making money in JimB2468 trading room
OK. I thought it was something like that. I just needed someone to flesh it out for me. Thanks
Rcwso,
Very well said. These forum threads tend to have a life cycle, and begin their spiral downward when those who are not willing to put in the required time for learning/study/practice, and flush a great thread looking for their holy grail.

Many thanks to all of you -especially Divergence- for your clear effort to learn, teach and share from the beginning.
Someone (Divergence) gives a great deal of his time, effort, etc... ALL FOR FREE and we see posts from those who are NOW complaining. You guarantee your failure with that kind of attitude.

All methods will change with market conditions. It is one of the constants of our business. One of our jobs as traders is to recognize these changes and adapt. Those who do not (for whatever the reason) are destined to fail. Why? Simply they have this need to be right or to put it another way, their ego. Ahhh, but you will hear them say, “I don’t have an ego”... You do!! Why do you think so many traders fail? A few due to method but an overwhelming large number fail due to their own egos. This causes traders to not see the changes in the environment that they are trading. Examples would be adjustment is position size, risk, volatility of the market traded, volume/time of day, (and dare I say) adjustments in methodology ...You get the picture!

So take a deep breath, leave your egos at the door, come in, sit down and take advantage of what Divergence is teaching (FOR FREE!!!). If, along the way, this is not for you...there are many good methods, (FOR FREE) on FF. Or maybe you would like to spend THOUSANDS $$$$$ on a mentor. Either way there are no guarantees.

I’m sorry; I can guarantee you one thing... You will fail!!! Especially when your ego, your need to be right, your attitude gets in the way.

For the record… I blew my first account 20k and my 21 year marriage all due to my ego in the markets.

Just my 6 cents
Do u have to be a member to access these Webinars? If so how much is a membership and how much extra information is available for those who subscribe that i cant see as a Junior. Thank You!
I have been following this thread/system from day one and have had great success with this system. Once again thanks to Mr. Div. for all the great work and effort.
I was wondering how everyone manages the trades in terms of using the breakeven marks. Do you enter in multiple positions and exit one position once the first BE mark is reached?
http://www.anymeeting.com/WebConfere...rid=EF52D88481 here is a link to the last webinar, no subscription fees here, there is also a trading room where people post opinions as the mkt is developing http://chat.efnet.org:9090/ enter a nickname and the channel is #flagtrading. hope this helps.
Quoting thefallguy
I have been following this thread/system from day one and have had great success with this system. Once again thanks to Mr. Div. for all the great work and effort.
I was wondering how everyone manages the trades in terms of using the breakeven marks. Do you enter in multiple positions and exit one position once the first BE mark is reached?
It seems that Divergence keeps his full position for target. There hasn't been much talk on this thread about multiple positions. So I'm not sure if this should be discussed here or not.

Divergence, how do you feel about multiple positions and scaling out?
"Be the change that you wish to see in the world." --Gandhi
EJ does it again. Once it gets going, the EJ seems to always out perform the flag projection limit. As I'm writing this, she's gone 10 pips over the projection. I've noticed this time and time again. Maybe I'll just have to limit my trading to 90 minutes a day.

I did get in on this trade, although it was probably not one to Div's liking because the early movement was 3-5 pip bars. I got within one pip of being stopped out. It took over one hour to complete.
Diamond, great job at keeping the system purely mechanical, the way it should be. I always have trouble with that. Keeping the emotion out is something I need to keep working at.
Quoting TraderinSD
Someone (Divergence) gives a great deal of his time, effort, etc... ALL FOR FREE and we see posts from those who are NOW complaining. You guarantee your failure with that kind of attitude.

[color=black][font=Verdana]All methods will change with market conditions. It is one of the constants of our business. One of our jobs as traders is to recognize these changes and adapt. Those who do not (for whatever the reason) are destined to fail. Why? Simply they have this need to be right or to put...
Everyone please read post 4394 Wow!!! Traderinsd this is both insirational and sad at the same time what has happened to you. Let me share some history about trading, the markets change from time to time and what is meant by that is they contract and expand (exceed daily ranges by a lot). We never know in advance when this is going to happen so when it does the method needs to adjust to it. Sometimes even the adjustments dont yield signal setups because they happen when you are not at the computer so whats a trader to do? Well this is what i do i wait for perfect setups only not near perfect though this doesnt generate wins it doesnt generate losses either. Every market trends about 30% and are rangebound the rest of the time and since we are trading on 5 min charts you will not recognize it but on large frame you can see it. The time frame usually is weeks to a few months then things settle down for the rest of the year just like last year at the same time. We have the usual greece fiasco portugal meltdown the obama thing and the bin laden thing etc. The best thing at this time is the disipline and patience thing the market will not disapear but if we are not P AND D our money will disappear!!!these are just my observation from 10+ years hope this helps to get a handle on things mentally
Quoting Divergence
Everyone please read post 4394 Wow!!! Traderinsd this is both insirational and sad at the same time what has happened to you. Let me share some history about trading, the markets change from time to time and what is meant by that is they contract and expand (exceed daily ranges by a lot). We never know in advance when this is going to happen so when it does the method needs to adjust to it. Sometimes even the adjustments dont yield signal setups because they happen when you are not at the computer so whats a trader to do? Well this is what i do...
++++++++++++++

Sage advice as always. Haven't seen you around as much. I'm assuming you're getting a chance to focus on your business.

I have a request. Once or twice each week, I'd like to see you post a "Perfect" trade that you took. You've highlighted several in your webinars, I just think that having one example up for discussion would give all of us something to focus on and spend time with. Being able to dissect a Div trade could help many of us cement the process in our brains.
Thanks,
Darryl
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