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5Min Intraday System

  • #7,561
  • Apr 12, 2011 7:31am Apr 12, 2011 7:31am
Quoting boomslang
Hi Golfer,
I dont use this system, i mean i dont use MAs. But I trade naked 5 min chart with hand-drawing trendlines. Totally agree with u on the pull back issue! It also costed me lots of time to figure it out. Now, I'd like to say: S&R+trendline= best entry (U know, when they r crossing. Yup, these's loss sometime, but not often)

Happy pips~
boomslang
Hi B

Perfect - just my style of trading!

About time wasted - yes, that is why I don't want to b...s.... people anymore and I am just telling them what is working for me. I am no longer telling people what/how to do trading or promoting any trading system. Just what is working for me and the principles of this system is working for me (adapted to suit my style of trading).

Enjoy the trading!
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,562
  • Apr 12, 2011 11:36am Apr 12, 2011 11:36am
You know. It's always the trendlines and horizontal support & resistance lines that the most effective and useful ones are.

Even with this system, using EMA's as S/R lines, they only work when PA has a rhythm for them. Sometimes, it fits with 10EMA, but other times, 15EMA.

Both rhythms are correct, and if you just simply draw trendlines instead of relying on those EMA's, I think we can get more chances to enter and be accurate. I now know that war-zone-entry is only correct if PA has the rhythm for it.

I discarded many technical analysis tools once I met this and learned PA trading methods, but now I guess I no longer need to rely on the war zone and those EMA's any more. Find the rhythm by drawing trendlines, check S/R lines, and if the rhythm is good, it is a high probability to win.

I still use 50SMA, but if it is a matter of drawing trendlines and finding the rhythm, I think I will take it off of my chart as well.

This is my conclusion anyway. For beginners, following this system should help A LOT. EMA's are surely helpful and convenient because they work as S/R lines without spotting the right candles and drawing trendlines.
A successful trading depends on knowing what to analyze.
  • #7,563
  • Apr 13, 2011 4:36am Apr 13, 2011 4:36am
Quoting Pipdealer
You know. It's always the trendlines and horizontal support & resistance lines that the most effective and useful ones are.

Even with this system, using EMA's as S/R lines, they only work when PA has a rhythm for them. Sometimes, it fits with 10EMA, but other times, 15EMA.

Both rhythms are correct, and if you just simply draw trendlines instead of relying on those EMA's, I think we can get more chances to enter and be accurate. I now know that war-zone-entry is only correct if PA has the rhythm for it.

I discarded many technical analysis...
Hi Pipdealer,
What does PA mean?
I'm a beginner of this 5min system. I used this template and Leo_BR's 5minBlueTrS http://www.forex-tsd.com/manual-trad...you-think.html at the same time to find the good chance.
I traded a lot in the past two weeks and result is break even. I'm going to study the 4h system to improve my feeling of the forex.

No doubt, it's a powerful system! Thanks all!
Attached Image
  • #7,564
  • Apr 13, 2011 4:48am Apr 13, 2011 4:48am
Quoting Golfer
Hi B

Perfect - just my style of trading!

About time wasted - yes, that is why I don't want to b...s.... people anymore and I am just telling them what is working for me. I am no longer telling people what/how to do trading or promoting any trading system. Just what is working for me and the principles of this system is working for me (adapted to suit my style of trading).

Enjoy the trading!
glad to see your people put so many conclusions here. i make a wrong trade just following that one. haven`t know the system well. but as golfer said, a system must fit your peosonility, and its works in centain period ,we have to wait the good probablity. i dont know how phillip use the two system(4H MACD)together exactly, i spend much time in 4H one, so the ryhtem he mentioned many times there are useful in every system i think. for the 5 min is a much shorter system, i need the improve my operation, long way to go,wish you guys can share more experiences.

thanks everybody and good trading
  • #7,565
  • Apr 13, 2011 5:00am Apr 13, 2011 5:00am
Quoting kadiriko
Dear The Snowman
Which program do you use for making the arrows in different sizes and which are on the graphics added by you to the forum.
Thank you in advance for your interest regards
I use and recommend SnagIt

sorry for delay, been travel international, back in Australia now
Canadian by birth Australian by choice
  • #7,566
  • Edited 5:40am Apr 13, 2011 5:19am | Edited 5:40am
@Golfer

I noticed my reply of some days ago for some reason did not get to the forum so I will repost it.
------------------------------------------------------------

I wanted to test the system to see if it'd be good for me.
As I said you in my last posts I am also engaged in other interesting authors including BRV of NoBrainerTrades, James16 and followed Chris Lori's course (best spent money in the year imho).
[By the way did you know that apparently a slight variation of this system is used by a fund manager?]

I learned from the guys above that even the best system is still like a raw canvas you have to make it yours, it has to enter in your flesh.

So I stress tested it even with terrible and / or late entries (both are my specialty!!! ) to see how it'd react and I am slowly approaching to a consistent success rate.


Terrible entry #1 in first graph shows that even entering late, at a quite unfortunate trend (it lasted all of one retracement) I still managed to take full profit.

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3465/86554216.png


Entry #2

I entered at the first pullback (with the medium white candle right after), did not dare to enter the second because US hours futures trends in these days are ... BLEAH. It won't show the exact entry because I use an orders platform for that, this is just the charting package.
As you may see, I am ignoring the 21 EMA quite often (I still watch the MACD a bit though), I care more that the pull back candle wick tests the diagonal trendline.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/3889/69099544.png


NO entry #3

(You is being used impersonally)

This is the example of why people must train, train, train and train more.
You have to LIVE the market, tick by tick, hour after hour and then the clues click in the brain.
Once you feel the market, you know that many times the market is not ready to deal with you, this is the visible case.
Since the first pullback to the left, that volatility shows that a medium term trend is right about to crash and is exhaling his last breaths with such erratic behavior that trading a momentum system would just get you busted.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9156/72581880.png
  • #7,567
  • Apr 13, 2011 5:36am Apr 13, 2011 5:36am
Entry #4

A demonstration about why the best indicator for this system is still the one located between the ears:

The first pullback is the most reliable and of course the market knows that and makes it hard to catch it in time. Waiting for the MACD or 21 EMA leads to 1 trade a day. So I also look for visual confirmation that the trend looks "healthy", for possible diagonal trend line being tested, or for the Bollinger bands midline to act as support (it worked in this case).


http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5376/5textbook.png


Entry #5

Another case where MACD confirmation would have given a late entry signal despite the trade looking like a textbook deal to me.

The 21 EMA test prevailed, knowing that often times as price hits the 21 EMA the bounce is violent and you lose the trade entry if you wait.
Also, you don't really want to enter too much close to that pivot line right under.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1818/68302913.png

Now, looking back at these entries I see most of them were dubious or just sucked, but in due time I should fix that...
  • #7,568
  • Apr 14, 2011 5:01am Apr 14, 2011 5:01am
Quoting baipeng
Hi Pipdealer,
What does PA mean?
I'm a beginner of this 5min system. I used this template and Leo_BR's 5minBlueTrS http://www.forex-tsd.com/manual-trad...you-think.html at the same time to find the good chance.
I traded a lot in the past two weeks and result is break even. I'm going to study the 4h system to improve my feeling of the forex.

No doubt, it's a powerful system! Thanks all!
Hi B

Sorry for answering Pipdealer's question but I am sure he'll give an explanations as well:

PA = price actions and there are information available on the Internet on the concept.

Enjoy the trading.
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,569
  • Apr 14, 2011 5:10am Apr 14, 2011 5:10am
Quoting benjamiin000
glad to see your people put so many conclusions here. i make a wrong trade just following that one. haven`t know the system well. but as golfer said, a system must fit your peosonility, and its works in centain period ,we have to wait the good probablity. i dont know how phillip use the two system(4H MACD)together exactly, i spend much time in 4H one, so the ryhtem he mentioned many times there are useful in every system i think. for the 5 min is a much shorter system, i need the improve my operation, long way to go,wish you guys can share more...
Hi B

I cannot speak for Phillip but what I am trying to do (and I don't achieve my goal every time) is:

Look at the rhythm of the 4h MACD system:

4h MACD rule:
1. If the price broke the 21MA downwards, the price tend to move back towards the 21MA to test it again

5min system:
1.1 It is on that pullback that I'll look for a long entry on the 5min chart

4h MACD rule:
2. After the price tested the 21MA, it will continue downwards towards the 89MA

5min system:
2.1 Now I'll look for a short entry on the 5min chart.

And that is just one example of how I would use the 4h MACD system to establish a rhythm and try to capitalise with the 5min system.

Fdor the 5min entries - I'll be looking for my signals as described on the last few pages of this thread.

I hope it make sense
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,570
  • Apr 14, 2011 6:38am Apr 14, 2011 6:38am
Quoting Golfer
Hi B

I cannot speak for Phillip but what I am trying to do (and I don't achieve my goal every time) is:

Look at the rhythm of the 4h MACD system:

4h MACD rule:
1. If the price broke the 21MA downwards, the price tend to move back towards the 21MA to test it again

5min system:
1.1 It is on that pullback that I'll look for a long entry on the 5min chart

4h MACD rule:
2. After the price tested the 21MA, it will continue downwards towards the 89MA

5min system:
2.1 Now I'll look for a short entry on the 5min chart.

And...
thanks golfer,it do make sense. i now trying to fix the two together well, not over trading on the 5min,put the 4H in the first place, and if the 5MIN have signal as you said in the high oppo ,i will take it. open positions in the two system the same time always make me to be emtioned.
  • #7,571
  • Apr 14, 2011 7:24am Apr 14, 2011 7:24am
Comments from me on just one of the previous charts posted.
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Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,572
  • Apr 14, 2011 7:34am Apr 14, 2011 7:34am
Comments on another chart posted earlier on the thread - once again price action evident:

Significant level created by previous support found, support broken, pullback towards breakout level, bounce off breakout level and continuation downwards.

That is what price action is all about. Combine that with candle formations and price patterns (double tops, double bottoms, triangles, flags, pennants, and so on) and you'll have a nice picture of what price action is all about.

Enjoy the trading.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1.1.JPG Size: 166 KB
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,573
  • Apr 14, 2011 12:16pm Apr 14, 2011 12:16pm
Quoting Golfer
Comments on another chart posted earlier on the thread - once again price action evident:

Significant level created by previous support found, support broken, pullback towards breakout level, bounce off breakout level and continuation downwards.

That is what price action is all about. Combine that with candle formations and price patterns (double tops, double bottoms, triangles, flags, pennants, and so on) and you'll have a nice picture of what price action is all about.

Enjoy the trading.
Thanks Golfer! Now I know PA a lot
  • #7,574
  • Apr 14, 2011 1:03pm Apr 14, 2011 1:03pm
These are the entries I have made +/- 2 pips
  • #7,575
  • Apr 15, 2011 10:47am Apr 15, 2011 10:47am
Entered where the yellow arrow points.

Was a nice run worth 31-32 pips even if I took profit just after 12 (still not confident enough to not follow Phillip Nel suggested values).

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l...ipNelEntry.png
  • #7,576
  • Apr 15, 2011 4:06pm Apr 15, 2011 4:06pm
"[quote=dfumagalli;4548580]Entered where the yellow arrow points.

Was a nice run worth 31-32 pips even if I took profit just after 12 (still not confident enough to not follow Phillip Nel suggested values)."

I took the same trade, but waited one more candle to enter. What I did not see on your chart was the support/resistance line. I also exited for 13 pips. Nice trade. Don't mind the MA's

Willem, looks like things are going well
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  • #7,577
  • Apr 16, 2011 1:01pm Apr 16, 2011 1:01pm
Quoting Morelands
Willem, looks like things are going well
Not as well as I'd want.

I am backtesting the system and it fails horribly in some months where volatility makes it go in stop loss all the time. I widened SL to 15 pips but it still seems not enough and I don't like to risk 15 to profit 12 (despite the volatility the take profit does not seem to averagely benefit from it).
  • #7,578
  • Apr 18, 2011 2:13am Apr 18, 2011 2:13am
[quote=Morelands;4549108]"
Quoting dfumagalli
Entered where the yellow arrow points.

Was a nice run worth 31-32 pips even if I took profit just after 12 (still not confident enough to not follow Phillip Nel suggested values)."

I took the same trade, but waited one more candle to enter. What I did not see on your chart was the support/resistance line. I also exited for 13 pips. Nice trade. Don't mind the MA's

Willem, looks like things are going well
Hi R

Yes, still very busy - unfortunately not with forex trading. Hopefully in May I'll start trading again.

Nice trade.

I see you are very busy on the 4hMACD thread - well done.

Talk soon.
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,579
  • Apr 18, 2011 2:19am Apr 18, 2011 2:19am
Quoting dfumagalli
Not as well as I'd want.

I am backtesting the system and it fails horribly in some months where volatility makes it go in stop loss all the time. I widened SL to 15 pips but it still seems not enough and I don't like to risk 15 to profit 12 (despite the volatility the take profit does not seem to averagely benefit from it).
Hi Df

Yes, and I can understand why your backtesting failed. I had the very same problem with the system and I adapted it to suit my style.

My comments:

1. I don't use the 10pip SL anymore but I do put my SL where I think the price won't go. It is usually above a previous swing high or low or even above/below my significant level. Then I look for a risk ratio of 1:1. If it is not possible, I'll pass (ignore) on the trade setup.

2. That is why I introduce my significant level - to avoid overtrading. Like I said before - there are lots (allmost too many) of 5min setups on a pair per day (according to the rules) but not all of them are tradeable (because of whipsaw). Be careful and selective.

Enjoy.
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,580
  • Edited 3:20pm Apr 18, 2011 2:20pm | Edited 3:20pm
Quoting dfumagalli
Not as well as I'd want.

I am backtesting the system and it fails horribly in some months where volatility makes it go in stop loss all the time. I widened SL to 15 pips but it still seems not enough and I don't like to risk 15 to profit 12 (despite the volatility the take profit does not seem to averagely benefit from it).
Hi Df

Just an example of how I determine my risk ratio.

First I identify my possible entry point - which was at 1.4224 (I am not going to discuss the rules for my entry, not part of this system (see Vantage's higher low, lower high system somewhere on forex factory).

Secondly I looked for the previous swing low (which was at 1,4211 meaning I had to risk 13-14pips if I want to put my SL below that swing low point)

Thirdly I looked for the next POSSIBLE resistance level (which was around 1.4248, also near next big round number (1.4250)) meaning I have 20pips to play around. I was a bit worried with the previous swing high, but I decided to risk it.

See it on the chart - hope it make sense. To summarise - I don't use a fix SL anymore. I look for an area where I don't expect the price to go and put my SL just above or below that level. Next I do make sure that there is no support or resistance in the way to have a risk ratio of 1:1.

Once again - please note, this is not a Phillip Nel 5min trade. I just want to show people my practical approach to SL, TP and risk ratio.

Enjoy it
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Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
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