GH, the line is not there
That is what I try to explain to you. Good luck to you too my friend
. I will restrict my posting to minimum from now on....good luck.
james16 Chart Thread
- #93,141
- Apr 7, 2011 6:31am Apr 7, 2011 6:31am
- | Joined Mar 2008 | Status: shoe shine boy | 1,146 Posts
. I will restrict my posting to minimum from now on....good luck.
- #93,142
- Apr 7, 2011 6:39am Apr 7, 2011 6:39am
- Joined Jan 2008 | Status: <<--(-$-)-->> | 5,571 Posts
And you are already there, GH? Can you show a good trade BEFORE it happens then?
And also according to your If you are not able to notice those important levels then you are simply not there yet. Please look at the privous chart I posted, James is not there yet? Look at his last trade pinbar, you will skip it for sure right? The PPZ is even more obvious, you see it too, right? Or that chart is really free of PPZ?
Can we be honest and say that some setups like 1% sometimes fail?
I think you misconstrued the chart from the big guy there. Those arrows didn't mean to point out at the trades he took, they were simply pointing out the bars we look for when trading. And what he meant by doing that was to tell us:
"Played at the right place with a simple understanding of s/r for exits these setups are 95% reliable in any market"
About the setup you took on Gu, I will have to agree with GH that the 16250 PPZ was indeed a strong one. In not looking at PPZs or rather not zooming out to look at the big picture you are making yourself extremely vulnerable because you are essentially shutting down to very important aspects of a trade setup. Location as well as the space factor, both of which involve a careful scrutiny of PPZs.
Now here's a trade with a BIG BEOB, as big as you get em' its also at a swing high but It was running into trouble not evident by any immediate price flip but one that was a visible on the larger front. The point is GH is making is if you continue to look for only shorter term price flips than you're prone to making the same mistake again.
hope this helps.
g.
I believe . . .
Yes it was playable Plund.
The shape was just about as good as it gets. I liked the location too. The only reason I passed on it was that it wasn't deep enough into the pull back and still relatively close to the swing low.
Like I said not entirely unplayable but certainly not a setup that gets a tick in every department that I look into for these setups.
Did you take this?
g.
pat
- #93,144
- Apr 7, 2011 7:02am Apr 7, 2011 7:02am
- | Joined Jul 2010 | Status: MAKE IT HAPPEN | 2,220 Posts
Hey Ad,
I think you misconstrued the chart from the big guy there. Those arrows didn't mean to point out at the trades he took, they were simply pointing out the bars we look for when trading. And what he meant by doing that was to tell us:
"Played at the right place with a simple understanding of s/r for exits these setups are 95% reliable in any market"
About the setup you took on Gu, I will have to agree with GH that the 16250 PPZ was indeed a strong one. In not looking at PPZs or rather...
I respect your opinion, but I have a different one.
However, I cannot agree with you on:
I think you misconstrued the chart from the big guy there. Those arrows didn't mean to point out at the trades he took, they were simply pointing out the bars we look for when trading. And what he meant by doing that was to tell us:
"Played at the right place with a simple understanding of s/r for exits these setups are 95% reliable in any market"
Because I don't believe James would mark some trades that are known to him to be invalid, so we will trade them and fail, lol. Those are the trades, arrows represent opportunities.
Of course some super advanced traders will find ways to skip, or do something else based on something else. But I want to learn J16.
EDIT: "Played at the right place with a simple understanding of s/r for exits these setups are 95% reliable in any market" - This means those arrows, they show us setups at the right place and how reliable they are.
- #93,145
- Apr 7, 2011 7:14am Apr 7, 2011 7:14am
- | Membership Revoked | Joined Nov 2010 | 3,072 Posts
Adi, you're looking for a mechanical system you can use day in day out without getting emotional over. That's cool. I love reading how you're getting on with that.
Greenhaze, you see things a little differently, and that's to be respected too.
I've learned lots from both of you guys, and hope neither of you keep your posts to a minimum.
If
Greenhaze, you see things a little differently, and that's to be respected too.
I've learned lots from both of you guys, and hope neither of you keep your posts to a minimum.
If
- #93,147
- Apr 7, 2011 7:19am Apr 7, 2011 7:19am
- | Joined Jul 2010 | Status: MAKE IT HAPPEN | 2,220 Posts
Adi, you're looking for a mechanical system you can use day in day out without getting emotional over. That's cool. I love reading how you're getting on with that.
Greenhaze, you see things a little differently, and that's to be respected too.
I've learned lots from both of you guys, and hope neither of you keep your posts to a minimum.
If
Objective - yes, I believe we can make it objective.
Drawing lines after failed trades, but not drawing same lines after winner trade (which of course will be there with a winner too) - that's not objective.
Morning guys
(Just cant stop reading this thread, - the more I read the more it makes
sense - fantastic work !)
I've a question about moving stops to BE if I may:-
If I get into a trade on the daily chart, how quickly should I be moving my stop from the original placement (bar high/low) to Break even ?.
I guess what I am really trying to figure out is if the trade is moving in my favour should I wait until the current daily candle closes and adjust my stop at the next days opening or should I drop down TF's and move it as soon...
1) Most of the time on the standard PA's (PB's, BEU/OB's, DBLH/LC's) the Break Out bar is the very next bar after the PA set-up.
2) If a good PA set-up has been chosen price almost never retraces the full PA and stops you out on the same bar as the BO bar.
3) 90% of the time, if price is going to move any decent distance, it does not retrace back beyond the other side of a closed BO bar.
How does this apply? Once an entry is triggered I place the initial stop on the other side of the PA as taught and wait a full day for the BO bar to close. No micromanaging of the trade at this point. When the BO bar closes I then move the initial stop to just behind the BO bar. If price retraces past the BO bar and stops me out there is a 90% chance that the movement is over anyway and will retrace the full length of the original PA set-up. This helps to reduce initial risk fairly quickly, let the trade play out as planned, and eliminate "hoping" when it does not behave as planned.
I hope this helps
- #93,149
- Edited 9:53am Apr 7, 2011 9:11am | Edited 9:53am
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Borderline yahoo & oh-no! | 6,607 Posts
WARNING:
this IS a long post.
GBPUSD: let's make this a healthy & learning discussion/experience for the others.
so open your minds.
to be fair, Greenhaze has a point.
as well as all the others (except me) who expressed concern (starting with Osman's post) yesterday.
to be honest, i traded gbpusd yesterday (a couple of times on lower TF, NOT based on & PRIOR that BEOB formed), & i ended up net negative.
i was not 'in tune' with gbpusd because i have not made trades on it for several days. to add insult to injury, i did NOT have that 1.6250 plotted as PPZ (i just eyeballed the potential trouble areas)... inspite of these, i traded gbp$ yesterday.
when i replied to Marcus (aserbfx) yesterday, i believe i was already done with my trades... after i posted that, i immediately realized that i may have made bad trades on gbpusd, reasons being:
- 1.6250 PPZ (personally i would have that ppz about 10-20pip wide)
- choppy daily, weekly chart
- immediate trend (see H4 chart) was up. (around March31 onwards)
now, to address Adi's concerns/comments
i think he meant there is potential for price to retest 1.6250 from above since it has acted as resistance in the past. & it may stall if ever price reaches it (as oppose to letting price break through)
if u look at the chart, yes 1.6250 was being breached on either side, but u can also see price stalling around that area (1.6230 - 1.6260), so it would be logically beneficial to take note of that area as possible trouble area.
this is just a presumption on your part.
u will not have a big chance (or no chance at all) of knowing how many orders there are on the market or on a price area since u dont have access on order information. even experienced order flow traders are not 100% accurate with their presumptions.
like Greenhaze said, orders come & go.. sometimes orders are added, sometimes subtracted.
yes
even a single PPZ can improve/lose its strength/validity over time
if u can post a bigger chart, we can all see it much better.
u do not have to plot all price flips.
draw the major ones
take note of the minor ones (in your mind). DONT disregard them outright (sometimes they CAN stall/halt price movement).
as u gain more experience, u will be able to plot & take note of the good ones & reduce the number of lines on your chart.
Great space - yes
A+ - maybe. why is it A+ for YOU?
A+ only because BEOB is big & has lots of space?
that is NOT enough of a story, IMHO.
we dont mechanically trade when u get a trade setup with just these 2 factors.
dont forget, BEOBs bigger than this one CAN & DO fail. BEOB's smaller than this CAN & DO succeed.
to reiterate what i said above,
the negatives were:
- 1.6250 PPZ (personally i would have that ppz about 10-20pip wide)
- choppy daily, weekly chart
- immediate trend (see H4 chart) was up. (around March31 onwards).WE CANNOT DISREGARD the TREND.
also, u are disregarding James16 rule (James16 THIS IS CRITICAL)
which is TRADING INTO A PPZ
to be clear, what is the BEOB high & low on your chart (on IBFX, it was not a BEOB)? what is the low of the bar after that BEOB?
there was no mention that J16 traded all those.
i believe it was a chart FOR REFERENCE... just showing the PA setups & their potentials.
not all charts AND trades are that beautiful & smooth.
correct me if im wrong, but i think u are talking about 'hindsight' when u said these(see the bold words/accompanying phrase).
meaning, u thought Greenhaze replied& based his response on the chart AFTER the BEOB 'failed'*.
to be honest, people who make mention, complain, infer, imply about trades being correctly done 'only in hindsight' lack enough trading experience.
IMHO that's the truth... believe it or not, accept it or not.
we have to be open minded & accept the reality that we can & will make trading mistakes. in line with this, we should be open minded to comments, insights of other traders, without resorting to/coming close to making personal attacks (which i think u did on Greenhaze, making mention of his trading experience, which has NOTHING to do with that gbp$ BEOB. he was simply trying to help u, bro. this is the second time i have seen u do this. the first one is now on the Recycle Bin). attacking someone/posting negative comments wont help anyone succeed in trading.
*having said all that, no one has mentioned that that gbp$ BEOB on your chart HAS NOT failed yet. since the BEOB high has not been violated, so far.
hope this helps Adilius & others
this IS a long post.
Why do you think it was support? I mean if you were there BEFORE the trade...
so open your minds.
to be fair, Greenhaze has a point.
as well as all the others (except me) who expressed concern (starting with Osman's post) yesterday.
to be honest, i traded gbpusd yesterday (a couple of times on lower TF, NOT based on & PRIOR that BEOB formed), & i ended up net negative.
i was not 'in tune' with gbpusd because i have not made trades on it for several days. to add insult to injury, i did NOT have that 1.6250 plotted as PPZ (i just eyeballed the potential trouble areas)... inspite of these, i traded gbp$ yesterday.
when i replied to Marcus (aserbfx) yesterday, i believe i was already done with my trades... after i posted that, i immediately realized that i may have made bad trades on gbpusd, reasons being:
- 1.6250 PPZ (personally i would have that ppz about 10-20pip wide)
- choppy daily, weekly chart
- immediate trend (see H4 chart) was up. (around March31 onwards)
now, to address Adi's concerns/comments
Why do you think it was support?
? I mean if you were there BEFORE the trade, you see price freely going above then below then above that line,.
how many orders are still there do you think? Not many I suspect after so much movement above and below and above.
u will not have a big chance (or no chance at all) of knowing how many orders there are on the market or on a price area since u dont have access on order information. even experienced order flow traders are not 100% accurate with their presumptions.
like Greenhaze said, orders come & go.. sometimes orders are added, sometimes subtracted.
I truely believe that not all PPZ are equa
even a single PPZ can improve/lose its strength/validity over time
...
And if we scroll left there may be even more flips...
Thinking a lot about all this, for a long time (like soon to be a year) I thought I have to make some PPZ obsolete, eitherwise is just NOT being honest with myself, because knowing of all flips and still take some trades is just cheating lol
u do not have to plot all price flips.
draw the major ones
take note of the minor ones (in your mind). DONT disregard them outright (sometimes they CAN stall/halt price movement).
as u gain more experience, u will be able to plot & take note of the good ones & reduce the number of lines on your chart.
So for me this one was a setup with GREAT space for a price to go, A+ which failed, they sometimes fail, like 3% of time
A+ - maybe. why is it A+ for YOU?
A+ only because BEOB is big & has lots of space?
that is NOT enough of a story, IMHO.
we dont mechanically trade when u get a trade setup with just these 2 factors.
dont forget, BEOBs bigger than this one CAN & DO fail. BEOB's smaller than this CAN & DO succeed.
to reiterate what i said above,
the negatives were:
- 1.6250 PPZ (personally i would have that ppz about 10-20pip wide)
- choppy daily, weekly chart
- immediate trend (see H4 chart) was up. (around March31 onwards).WE CANNOT DISREGARD the TREND.
also, u are disregarding James16 rule (James16 THIS IS CRITICAL)
which is TRADING INTO A PPZ
to be clear, what is the BEOB high & low on your chart (on IBFX, it was not a BEOB)? what is the low of the bar after that BEOB?
....
This James16 chart is for reference. This is what I try to learn.
i believe it was a chart FOR REFERENCE... just showing the PA setups & their potentials.
not all charts AND trades are that beautiful & smooth.
I mean if you were there BEFORE the trade...
Drawing lines after failed trades, but not drawing same lines after winner trade (which of course will be there with a winner too) - that's no objective
And you are already there, GH? Can you show a good trade BEFORE it happens then?
meaning, u thought Greenhaze replied& based his response on the chart AFTER the BEOB 'failed'*.
to be honest, people who make mention, complain, infer, imply about trades being correctly done 'only in hindsight' lack enough trading experience.
IMHO that's the truth... believe it or not, accept it or not.
we have to be open minded & accept the reality that we can & will make trading mistakes. in line with this, we should be open minded to comments, insights of other traders, without resorting to/coming close to making personal attacks (which i think u did on Greenhaze, making mention of his trading experience, which has NOTHING to do with that gbp$ BEOB. he was simply trying to help u, bro. this is the second time i have seen u do this. the first one is now on the Recycle Bin). attacking someone/posting negative comments wont help anyone succeed in trading.
*having said all that, no one has mentioned that that gbp$ BEOB on your chart HAS NOT failed yet. since the BEOB high has not been violated, so far.
hope this helps Adilius & others
- #93,150
- Apr 7, 2011 9:30am Apr 7, 2011 9:30am
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: kiki soso largyalo | 2,243 Posts
Hi Aser,
Did you play it?
pat
meine augen sind die sterne
- #93,151
- Apr 7, 2011 9:46am Apr 7, 2011 9:46am
- Joined Feb 2009 | Status: Borderline yahoo & oh-no! | 6,607 Posts
no, i have to many open stock trades at the moment. need to limit my risk.
- #93,152
- Apr 7, 2011 9:55am Apr 7, 2011 9:55am
- | Commercial User | Joined Aug 2006 | 12,004 Posts
Hi Mike
Need to ask you about the concept of space.
Looking at Tomek's chart, i couldn't help notice PPZ at around 0.7275. Also the RN 0.7300 that could have caused trouble. However, this PPZ is TO THE LEFT OF SPACE - does it make it any less important to you?
Does the concept of space mean there should be not any supp/res to the far left of price? Or only to the immediate left?
Could you explain?
You are not too far off. My chart explains your area is actually the 7200 mark for me and in the short term is the most important area leading into the trade FOR ME.
- #93,154
- Apr 7, 2011 9:56am Apr 7, 2011 9:56am
- | Joined Jul 2010 | Status: MAKE IT HAPPEN | 2,220 Posts
WARNING:
this IS a long post.
GBPUSD: let's make this a healthy & learning discussion/experience for the others.
so open your minds.
to be fair, Greenhaze has a point.
as well as all the others (except me) who expressed concern (starting with Osman's post) yesterday.
to be honest, i traded gbpusd yesterday (a couple of times on lower TF, NOT based on & PRIOR that BEOB formed), & i ended up net negative.
i was not 'in tune' with gbpusd because i have not...
- #93,155
- Apr 7, 2011 10:06am Apr 7, 2011 10:06am
- | Commercial User | Joined Aug 2006 | 12,004 Posts
Last one and I will shut up with my stupid trades
This James16 chart is for reference. This is what I try to learn.
If ones draws each price flip and skip trades he will not be able to trade.
We can see, that James himself obviously is not drawing each price flip, he give different weight to each.
If you try (not even hard) you can really skip each of these fine trades!
I made some comments on this chart. Might you skip these if they don't fit your criteria? Maybe, but if you have criteria then you already know how to effectively use this material. If you don't then I would go back from scratch using posts like this as your springboard. It's just insane deadly stuff. Insane.
Again don't mistake my post about it being simple for it being easy. But if you just spend time and time and time and time, with this stuff it GETS easier.
Take care
Mike
- #93,156
- Apr 7, 2011 10:07am Apr 7, 2011 10:07am
- | Joined Jul 2010 | Status: MAKE IT HAPPEN | 2,220 Posts
- #93,157
- Apr 7, 2011 10:13am Apr 7, 2011 10:13am
- | Commercial User | Joined Aug 2006 | 12,004 Posts
But this part is not cool, it is simply not truth. Tell me whom have I ever "attacked" before here that my comments went to recycle bin? Never happened, and not true!
I don't think I have attacked anyone, you refer to Greenhaze I guess, I don't see why having a discussion means attacking to you.
So what you incriminate here (2 instances of me attacking people) is just not true. I have never attacked anyone before and I have never attacked Greenhaze. Nonsense.
So I think you really need either to really have some factual info to make this...
GONNA det this one before it becomes something more then it should be . I think SC made a mistake, ADI is one of the good guys for sure SC. Remember guys words are words and not tone of voice. Adi has an inquisitive mind and I love that.
Sometimes we misinterpret words and tone of voice. Especially with people residing from all parts of the world here. If we stick to trading we will never have to worry about this. You both mean WELL. I know this for sure cause you both have been here awhile.
You both are huge assets to this thread
I will say the more open minded one can remain when learning to trade the better chance they have. As jim says its only what's between our ears that stops us. And I believe this so much, now more then ever dealing with thousands of new(and old) traders.
Best
Mike
- #93,158
- Apr 7, 2011 10:22am Apr 7, 2011 10:22am
- | Joined Jul 2010 | Status: MAKE IT HAPPEN | 2,220 Posts
My friends
GONNA det this one before it becomes something more then it should be ....
Thanks for the chart, I see now that those are really trades that could been traded and not just to show the type/structure of a bar we are looking.
So i need to improve my WIPG thing. I will work on it, and then post back.
Thanks!
- #93,160
- Apr 7, 2011 10:32am Apr 7, 2011 10:32am
- | Commercial User | Joined Aug 2006 | 12,004 Posts
Hi Mike, yes I am gonna be quiet an reduce my posting to a minimum now too.
I would hate to see you do that Adi, it was just a misunderstanding. I assure you both yourself and SC just misunderstood and both your hearts are in the right place.
It's just a by product of a huge forum and a lot of postings. I think we are all old enough can all just say misunderstanding and resume trading, right?
And yes WIPG will give you the confidence. Remember there is no single recipe for which bar to and not to take. This is both the good and bad of trading. It stinks cause no one can say here do ABC and collect your money, but it's good b/c you can personalize your trading. You might take a piece from here and there and say , "now this makes sense to ME"
Lets hug it out guys
Mike