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Is anyone here earning a living, just with forex trading?

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Apr 2, 2011 4:30am Apr 1, 2011 9:38pm | Edited Apr 2, 2011 4:30am
hi all...

I mean, average Joe just like me, who put aside some money and start trading, can we earn a living from trading forex?

Not the big institutes and rich one who have billions in their capital


Is just that after a year and 3 months learning, and demo on forex, i started to doubt i can make any money from it.

I have several demo account, the best one have some earning from the initial deposit, but what confusing to me is..

- if i follow any system, i will lose money
- if i i follow any sets of indicators, i will lose money
- if i follow the news, i will lose money
- if i developed my own system and follow it, i will lose money
- backtest always looks pretty, but in live test i always lose money
- money is loose by sl being hit over and over, different SL placement strategy wont help


countless system i have tested, combining news and indicators, price action, chart pattern, some system which fills the screen with indicators, naked system with no indicators, you name it. No matter when i use any system, i will loose countless of times, (but backtest always show pretty result)

however i made some pips.. by..
randomly putting trades, not setting SL , use small lots..


So i now totally confused, how does average Joe like me going to earn money from forex..
  • #2
  • Apr 1, 2011 10:24pm Apr 1, 2011 10:24pm
Quoting sam1741
hi all...

I mean, average Joe just like me, who put aside some money and start trading, can we earn a living from trading forex?

Not the big institutes and rich one who have billions in their capital


Is just that after a year and 3 months learning, and demo on forex, i started to doubt i can make any money from it.

I have several demo account, the best one have some earning from the initial deposit, but what confusing to me is..

- if i follow any system, i will loose money
- if i i follow any sets of indicators, i will loose money
- if i...
hang in there budy!!

this is the pivotal point that makes or breaks a trader. Everyone has to come to this point in there trading adventures and it is those who keep going that succeed and it is those who give up that end up being the majority of 95% or whatever the statistic is of losers.

so just hang in there and keep pushing,, in my opinion it will not come down to just one system or indicator,, but it will come down to just experience of how you see the market and experience of past situations that you had, and how you will react to it. and the systems and indicators will be great tools for you.. (hey this is just my opinion, i am not experienced trader, i have only 2 years, so please do not take this as advice)

~Tim
  • #3
  • Apr 1, 2011 10:44pm Apr 1, 2011 10:44pm
Thanks for the opinion Tim,

Talking about experience... i have once read an article written by one old trader.. he mention about screen time and 'gut feeling'.. not sure if he mean this..

Anyway i am now at a point that i am pretty confused, more confuse than the point when i first start learning







Quoting tim112779
hang in there budy!!

this is the pivotal point that makes or breaks a trader. Everyone has to come to this point in there trading adventures and it is those who keep going that succeed and it is those who give up that end up being the majority of 95% or whatever the statistic is of losers....
  • #4
  • Apr 1, 2011 11:43pm Apr 1, 2011 11:43pm
I have heard of traders on other forums talk about how taking a break will help them also....

does this go against what I say by never giving up? NO, it means if you get really frustrated and confused, then it MIGHT be a good decision to walk away for as long as you need to knowing that you will come back..... The market will always be here....

but here's the deal:
1) I have never taken a break from forex (2years) so I can't say if it will or will not help you.

2) when I was in the position of questioning,,,, asking the same questions as you are......."what if it is really not possible to make a living from forex?" and that type of thinking.... I was ready to give up. But I know in the back of my mind that I can not give up because I have spent over 1 year already... So I just keep going,,, being very broke......... there was actually times that I felt like throwing my computer screen and being very mad, lol, so It is possible that taking a break would have been good for me at that time, on the other hand, the fact that I kept going (demoing, trying new systems, ect...) eventually lead to experience under my belt that is now usefull in my trading now.

so it comes down to you personally,,, either keep going or take a break,,, one of the two,, BUT NEVER GIVE UP

I am only on my first month where I have made money good enough to live from,,, first time in 2 years,, there have been 3 other months that I have made money at trading but it was not consistent so I do not count that,, but this is the first month I did good enough for living, and the only thing I can say that matters the most is waited patiently for the right trade and only traded when I was felt confident and refrained from placing a trade that I was unsure about. and that only comes with experience of being glued to chart... (remember folks this is just my opinion and my personal trading experience,, please do not take this as advice since I have only one months profit and am not expert)

~Tim
  • #5
  • Apr 2, 2011 12:22am Apr 2, 2011 12:22am
Quoting sam1741
hi all...

I mean, average Joe just like me, who put aside some money and start trading, can we earn a living from trading forex?

Not the big institutes and rich one who have billions in their capital


Is just that after a year and 3 months learning, and demo on forex, i started to doubt i can make any money from it.

I have several demo account, the best one have some earning from the initial deposit, but what confusing to me is..

- if i follow any system, i will loose money
- if i i follow any sets of indicators, i will loose money
-...
.
Sorry for being off topic and apologies to non english speaking memebers---but the misspelling of LOSE seems to be endemic on FF
LOSE ----sounds like LOOZE the other word is LOOSE---rhymes with GOOSE and means not tight. I'm not normally a fussy bastard but its driving me crazy.
We are all One. Be present. Be the Observer
  • #6
  • Apr 2, 2011 2:32am Apr 2, 2011 2:32am
Quoting sam1741
hi all...

I mean, average Joe just like me, who put aside some money and start trading, can we earn a living from trading forex?

Not the big institutes and rich one who have billions in their capital


Is just that after a year and 3 months learning, and demo on forex, i started to doubt i can make any money from it.

I have several demo account, the best one have some earning from the initial deposit, but what confusing to me is..

- if i follow any system, i will loose money
- if i i follow any sets of indicators, i will loose money
- if i...
You are only a year at it. Expect 3 to 10 more years until you can be consistently profitable. And some people never make it even after that amount of time.

Just to shoot you off in the right direction: the work you did the last year on trading is nothing compared to the work which it takes to become profitable. You gotta do an insane amount of studying. Reading books about everything concerning the market, do statistical analyses and understanding the forces driving the markets.
  • #7
  • Apr 2, 2011 2:42am Apr 2, 2011 2:42am
@sam1741,
It takes 2 years to learn the practical side of trading. Add another 2 years to learn the mental side.
If you make it that far without parting with a few thousand dollars, you will be doing better than the average, another year to get your money and confidence back and another year to make some profit.

So after 6 years you might be able to earn a living from forex.

roy
Polishing my crystal ball
  • #8
  • Apr 2, 2011 3:18am Apr 2, 2011 3:18am
Hi

It's also depend on the money management, risk management practices and proper mental approach. It's not about what an excellent system or stratigy you have.

let's say there are 2 traders using the same system, one of them make good profit and the other one don't. Why?

Some traders trying to revenge of the market because they loos, so they will try to take short position with full margin or take long position with 90%...

So my point is we can not make any succeed without having good system, money management, proper mental approach.

Thank you
  • #9
  • Apr 2, 2011 4:21am Apr 2, 2011 4:21am
hi Tim,
This is Exactly what i feeling... the questions, confusion and questions in my head...

Quoting tim112779
2) when I was in the position of questioning,,,, asking the same questions as you are......."what if it is really not possible to make a living from forex?" and that type of thinking.... I was ready to give up. But I know in the back of my mind that I can not give up because I have spent over 1 year already... So I just keep going,,, being very broke......... there was actually times that I felt like throwing my computer screen and being very mad, lol, so It is possible that taking a break would have been good for me at that time, on the other...
  • #10
  • Apr 2, 2011 4:23am Apr 2, 2011 4:23am
Apologies for my spelling mistakes... english not my strong language.
Let me get that edit it..




Quoting Iamfx
.
Sorry for being off topic and apologies to non english speaking memebers---but the misspelling of LOSE seems to be endemic on FF
LOSE ----sounds like LOOZE the other word is LOOSE---rhymes with GOOSE and means not tight. I'm not normally a fussy bastard but its driving me crazy.
  • #11
  • Apr 2, 2011 4:26am Apr 2, 2011 4:26am
Quoting Custos
You are only a year at it. Expect 3 to 10 more years until you can be consistently profitable. And some people never make it even after that amount of time.

Just to shoot you off in the right direction: the work you did the last year on trading is nothing compared to the work which it takes to become profitable. You gotta do an insane amount of studying. Reading books about everything concerning the market, do statistical analyses and understanding the forces driving the markets.
I think, different people have different learning stage, for me might be a longer one.. and people around me all trading stocks, i not exposed to anyone trading forex in real life that makes me wonder if really can earn a living from it...


yeah I do read a lot since the beginning stage... for the books i cant afford i even sit and finish it at the book store... at a point all the books sounds the same to me.... there are no holy grail, money management and risk management are important, entries and exit only play small role, discipline are very important, etc etc

This brings another confusion to me.. since everyone talking about the strange thing.. is it the minority that not doing what the majority are doing are the earning ones... that earn from the market while majority are loosing
  • #12
  • Apr 2, 2011 4:28am Apr 2, 2011 4:28am
Quoting 30XTCi
@sam1741,
It takes 2 years to learn the practical side of trading. Add another 2 years to learn the mental side.
If you make it that far without parting with a few thousand dollars, you will be doing better than the average, another year to get your money and confidence back and another year to make some profit.

So after 6 years you might be able to earn a living from forex.

roy
thanks.. i think the word might is important.. i think different people suitable for different things. But i have this feels in my bones that i wan to be a trader in the future...
  • #13
  • Apr 2, 2011 4:29am Apr 2, 2011 4:29am
Quoting Knight515
Hi

It's also depend on the money management, risk management practices and proper mental approach. It's not about what an excellent system or stratigy...

thanks knight... your name reminds me of BK.
Yes this is what most books says too... entries and exit only play a small part, but the money management and risk management are important
  • #14
  • Apr 2, 2011 5:58am Apr 2, 2011 5:58am
Quoting sam1741

So i now totally confused, how does average Joe like me going to earn money from forex..
Hi Sam

How to answer a question like this in a few lines....I cant !

If we all went to trade school and progressed through trading like an apprentice with an instructor passing out yearly and moving onto the next step we would probably all pass out as traders that make consistent money

But we dont do that ... we are all individuals at home gleaning what info we can from the net and other traders on what to do when and why.

An electrician will take 4 years to pass out
A vet 7 years to pass out
A Royal Marine 9months then a couple years continuation training

This really is no different and its ones of the fews jobs where by we have to learn to lose in order to win

A bad office worker will still get his pay check at the end of each month we all know people like that.... a very emotional balanced and disciplined trader will still have losing trade losing days ...the difference is he/she will see beyond that and learn through time to mentaly accept those losers

I know we all know the obvious ..but the big big draw back we have in trading is the fact that there is too much out there.

Too many time frames... to many indicators... to many Ea's... too many experts....to many Internet freebie's...to many systems for $99 etc etc

I my self have fallen victim to this how many systems idea have I looked at designed that have 3 losing days in a row only for me to bin them ....allot..... in hindsight it may well of been the worst losing run in 12months of trading my timing was just bad

A typical scenario that we have all been in

trade 1 loses
trade 2 loses .. we get nervous make up excuses about it the market and decide to sit out the next signal
trade 3 wins
trade 4 wins
We now say market looks better so we take the next signal
trade 5 loses !
We stop for the day we have had enough 3 losers
trade 5 and 6 win
We go and have a cry !! ..

You need to get back to basics

Why does price move.
What does price react to
What do professional traders look at

All indicators are just lines number crunched from price data,they high light certain movements at certain times.

Some of the best things to look at in my own opinion and from the experience of 13years are

Pivot points - All pro's look at these
Fibonacci esp 61.8 % - reflects trader psychology
123 set ups - reflects traders psychology
Diversity - shows weakness and strength

Keep your charts simple clear and un cluttered
Decide upon 1 medium or idea / method and look only at that and try and become an expert in its use
keep to 1 or 2 swaps
Keep to 1 or 2 time frames

Try and remain blinkered to all the free advice and links to various get rich quick system and schemes

cheers

P
  • #15
  • Apr 2, 2011 7:20am Apr 2, 2011 7:20am
Thanks Paul...
I agree with what you say..
for these few weeks my chart is as clean as it can be ..

what i learn is all indicators are just some analysis from previous data.




Quoting Paulus
Hi Sam

How to answer a question like this in a few lines....I cant !

If we all went to trade school and progressed through trading like an apprentice with an instructor passing out yearly and moving onto the next step we would probably all pass out as traders that make consistent money

But we dont do that ... we are all individuals at home gleaning what info we can from the net and other traders on what to do when and why.

An electrician will take 4 years to pass out
A vet 7 years to pass out
A Royal Marine 9months then a couple years continuation...
  • #16
  • Apr 2, 2011 8:20am Apr 2, 2011 8:20am
In my view making money in forex and earning a living are very different, and personally i could not trade for a living at the moment, although i hope to one day. however i do feel that you should be able to atain a certain degree of success and profitability. personally i gave up trying to make big money and huge gains and just decided to take what the market was making available.

I spent my first year in forex, going round in circles and getting no-where, jumping from one system to another, untill i finally found something I liked and i drove all my effort to-wards that. to start with i lost money but with dogged determanation i have made it work.

I can also say that towards my second year i started to really feel the benifits of experience, and this helped hugely.

Its really funny to look back and wonder why i could not make money in the markets before, even when i was looking at the same thing then as i am now. I genuinely believe that most of it is due to different trade management, money management and better psychiology rather than great market analysis.

I would not bother buying every book under the sun, most of them are the same stuff rehashed. To be quite honest i value my own experience higher than all the books I have bought, experience is something that cannot be bought but in my view plays a huge part on ones success.

I would say you should take a break for a month or so, you sound quite exasparated and exhausted. You wont have a chance ain hell of trading successfully if you are like this.

Im afraid no one can say do this this this and this and you will make money, thats not the way it is. But i believe if you stick in there you or infact anyone can make at least some money.
  • #17
  • Apr 2, 2011 8:55am Apr 2, 2011 8:55am
hi Highlander...

Me too!! i've been going round circle... from learning the basic to other stuff, then back to basic,.. from no indicators and news, to many indicators and now back to no indicators..

i think Tim and you are right.. maybe i should take some break..

most of the days i will see candle chart in my dreams.. and i will see price drifting away from my entry...





Quoting highlander2
In my view making money in forex and earning a living are very different, and personally i could not trade for a living at the moment, although i hope to one day. however i do feel that you should be able to atain a certain degree of success and profitability. personally i gave up trying to make big money and huge gains and just decided to take what the market was making available.

I spent my first year in forex, going round in circles and getting no-where, jumping from one system to another, untill i finally found something I liked and i drove...
  • #18
  • Apr 2, 2011 9:52am Apr 2, 2011 9:52am
Quoting sam1741
I...
well, you are just reading trading books. That is not what I was talking about. I personally am reading up on market structure, fundamental forces driving the markets, mass behavior, behavioral finance, statistics, game theory,...

should give you material to read for the upcoming years.
  • #19
  • Apr 2, 2011 10:00am Apr 2, 2011 10:00am
Well the first thing you need to do is get rid of the negativity, if you are convinced no matter what you do you will lose, guess what?....you will lose.
You have to get out of the mindset that everything you do is a losing proposition.

once you do that you need to define your risk and your goals and be very disciplined with whatever system you decide to use.

I started out trading micro forex a few weeks ago and although i have some experience with trading the stock market I still had a rough time jumping to Fx. I finally have a system thats working for me and I'm going from loss after loss to actually taking some small profits on wins.

I would suggest reading this website www.babypips.com to get a better understanding of the market and maybe find some things that will help you go from losses to wins.

good luck and dont focus on trying to make a living from forex, focus on becoming a consistent profitable trader and then go from there.
  • #20
  • Apr 2, 2011 10:42am Apr 2, 2011 10:42am
Quoting Paulus

Keep your charts simple clear and un cluttered
Decide upon 1 medium or idea / method and look only at that and try and become an expert in its use
keep to 1 or 2 swaps
Keep to 1 or 2 time frames
I forgot and its rather clishe but very important from a mental point of view
try to make sure your winners are at least twice the size of losers

A very simple way of doing this is just to tie it into your MM

$2000 bank
Risk 5% per trade = $100
EU - 10$ per pip so stop loss 10 pips
Therefore TP is 20 pips
therefore the 15min time frame up may be seen as the best

Thats at its bare basics on top of that you have to decide

Is this the best place for my stop loss ?
Is the TP achievable ?

With all the metal positive thinking in the world unless you get an edge in the markets you will lose and thats a fact

The subject is huge but if your serious about making it then you do need cast iron rules
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