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vsa with Malcolm

  • #17,461
  • Mar 26, 2011 4:37pm Mar 26, 2011 4:37pm
Quoting inks2002
Also on a 15 min chart wouldn't we consider the bar at 12pm est a no demand bar? and isn't it still valid because the UT closed lower than the close of the no demand bar.

That brings me to a question, on tests such as no demands if the next bar makes a higher high, but closes lower than the close of the no demand do we still consider it valid? I know there are a lot of what ifs, but i've been seeing these a little more, just curious. Kinda like the one we are talking about.
The ND closes on it's high and normally it's nicer if they close off their high... the biggest factor though is that it is still above the trigger level at that area.

Yellow lines are trigger bar and trigger level.

Red lines are KRB closing below trigger and a test of the trigger level. Safe entry on break of this test bars low.
Attached Image
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,462
  • Mar 26, 2011 4:45pm Mar 26, 2011 4:45pm
Quoting HiddenGap
Seeing what you want to see, where you want to see it.

This is great chart that I took to answer a question from a PM. Unfortunately, I deleted the PM so if this doesn't answer that question just PM me again.

As it happens, this is also a great follow up to my previous post.

Take a look at the chart below.

Before going further, Let's repeat our mantra. It's all about seeing what we want to see, where we want to see it.

Okay, the first thing we need is our trigger bar. How one determines the trigger bar is up to him or her. The most obvious...
I don't understand am I supposed to take the red or blue pill?

Great post.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,463
  • Mar 26, 2011 4:56pm Mar 26, 2011 4:56pm
Quoting pres78
The ND closes on it's high and normally it's nicer if they close off their high... the biggest factor though is that it is still above the trigger level at that area.

Yellow lines are trigger bar and trigger level.

Red lines are KRB closing below trigger and a test of the trigger level. Safe entry on break of this test bars low.
you are saying that you would rather see the ND come back up from below the trigger level and print a ND bar?
  • #17,464
  • Mar 26, 2011 4:57pm Mar 26, 2011 4:57pm
Quoting inks2002
you are saying that you would rather see the ND come back up from below the trigger level and print a ND bar?
yes...ND and NS need to be in the right spot.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,465
  • Mar 26, 2011 6:53pm Mar 26, 2011 6:53pm
Quoting HiddenGap
I was wondering if anybody has a name for the three bars in the white square.

The interval following is a gottcha type bar, which makes me think that the three bars must be something. The idea behind the gottcha bar is to lock traders in to a bad postion. Therefore it would follow that the three bar pattern was used to enduce traders to get long, which is what an Up Thrust would do for example.
Hey HG,

i agree with others, those 3 bars would be a 15 minute upthrust.

I know the idea of smart money is often thrown around but lets face it the market is made up of buyers and sellers and 'large' operators who fight it out.....and they can often be wrong just as we sometimes are.

I see those 3 bars as a mini 'battle', where a large buyer stepped in on the 2 candle (leaning towards the bias) but after we closed on the wide spread down. we can assume that that the group that bought on that bar 'got it wrong'.

this would suggest the market it weaker than we thought, also when this large group would cover it would just add to the downside momentum.

T
  • #17,466
  • Mar 26, 2011 7:25pm Mar 26, 2011 7:25pm
Quoting Magix
As much as I love chart and tech talk..Holy Shit do you guys have a lot of rules to really complicate things..If doing this in the hindsight is this difficult...how the Eff do you trade live on it?

I've posted a chart like this before. I call it VSA's dirty little secret.

If you were content to not know anything about price action. If you were content not knowing why price is doing what it is doing. If you just want to be given entires. Well, here's the dirty little secret.

You can use 1, 2,3, or 12 indicators of your choice. Once they signal an uptrend, only go long on a down bar on low volume (volume less than the previous two). Once they signal a downtrend, only go short on an up bar on low volume (volume less than the previous two).

That's it. No need to understand what is being "Tested". Or why the Smart Money is not active on an up bar. No need to undersand what a Buying climax is. Or why narrow range bars on high volume signify that the range is beign compress because orders are being immediately matched.

In the chart below there are two indicators. The Hull Average paints the background pink for down trend and blue for up trend. The other indicator is the Chaos Price Actractor Line. When it is blue and price is above it, the trend is up. Conversely, when price is below it and it is red the trend is down.

Once you have a tend in place, for example an uptrend, you look for low volume down bars to enter in the direction of the trend. It doesn't get much simpler than that.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #17,467
  • Mar 26, 2011 7:55pm Mar 26, 2011 7:55pm
Quoting HiddenGap
I've posted a chart like this before. I call it VSA's dirty little secret.

If you were content to not know anything about price action. If you were content not knowing why price is doing what it is doing. If you just want to be given entires. Well, here's the dirty little secret.

You can use 1, 2,3, or 12 indicators of your choice. Once they signal an uptrend, only go long on a down bar on low volume (volume less than the previous two). Once they signal a downtrend, only go short on an up bar on low volume (volume...
Well put together.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #17,468
  • Edited 9:16pm Mar 26, 2011 8:32pm | Edited 9:16pm
For shyts and giggles, I took that chart from the previous post and "added" my template.

You can do your own comparing and constrasting. Entry is not the only thing you should be looking at. It is true that the price action chart gets you in sooner, but that is not its whole or most of its value in my opinion.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: ex 4.png Size: 127 KB
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #17,469
  • Mar 26, 2011 10:12pm Mar 26, 2011 10:12pm
Quoting HiddenGap
For shyts and giggles, I took that chart from the previous post and "added" my template.

You can do your own comparing and constrasting. Entry is not the only thing you should be looking at. It is true that the price action chart gets you in sooner, but that is not its whole or most of its value in my opinion.
For shyts n giggles, and because sharing is caring, I have done the same...

Loaded a modified version of my template to show that we are watching the same thing, same way only with a few different filters.

Chart1 My trend EMA...tested and bounced...
Chart2 Simple triggers on trend
Chart3 Confirmation on triggers, primary support/resistance
Chart4 Price support, reason for running the Zig Zag...

Now, on all of the charts, I have removed confusion by removing the price candles, really, the zzs and triggers on trend are where the action is...you can check on chart 4 where the MACD rolls, and where price has tested a previous resistance...Triggers on trend for further confirmation.

This is a 15m chart, I use for the longer term view and trigger off the 1m and 5m depending on the trade session...I will not take every trigger, but I will take the ones that make sense...price above Trend EMA, above ALF, green triggers are the buys, red triggers are hold...no trade.

On these same charts, I can also tell, believe it or not, when I will take the counters, and can do this off of the 15ms and will follow subsequent triggers on the 1m...

You got hulls...I got a few others...A full load can look a little busy, but like you said, what is wrong with waiting for the right sets to take the trades...
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #17,470
  • Mar 27, 2011 1:03am Mar 27, 2011 1:03am
Great posts here now.

Melbourne F1 start now.
  • #17,471
  • Mar 27, 2011 3:03am Mar 27, 2011 3:03am
Quoting juhanimi
"This is Chernobyl on steroids.", said one expert from USA.
Looks like that expert was right. Very bad news from Japan.

I heard that in Tokio area there are 35 million people.

Earlier when there was explosions in nuclear plant, Japan`s officials said: Nothing to worry. Everything is under control.
  • #17,472
  • Mar 27, 2011 4:23am Mar 27, 2011 4:23am
Quoting HiddenGap
For shyts and giggles, I took that chart from the previous post and "added" my template.

You can do your own comparing and constrasting. Entry is not the only thing you should be looking at. It is true that the price action chart gets you in sooner, but that is not its whole or most of its value in my opinion.
I agree completely. Yes the dirty little secret entry works but without understand price action and the more indepth points of VSA one will not know when to get out or when that NS which just printed was during a trap up move and if you go long off it then your SL will be hit before your TP ever will. PA has started to change direction and we have started to get signals that the current move up or down is coming to an end long before the Hulls and PAL change accordingly... this for me is just as important as getting in... when and how to get out.

I have presented on here before current trade progresses as to why I was staying in a trade based on current VSA / PA reviews of what appeared to be counter trend movements that I felt weren't and why.

Being able to determine when to hold em' or fold em' so to speak (Thanks Kenny ) is what allows you to take that next step in your trading.

Just my 2.5 cents worth c/w exchange...
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,473
  • Mar 27, 2011 7:00am Mar 27, 2011 7:00am
Quoting pres78
I agree completely. Yes the dirty little secret entry works but without understand price action and the more indepth points of VSA one will not know when to get out or when that NS which just printed was during a trap up move and if you go long off it then your SL will be hit before your TP ever will. PA has started to change direction and we have started to get signals that the current move up or down is coming to an end long before the Hulls and PAL change accordingly... this for me is just as important as getting in... when and how to get out....
I agree with both of you, HiddenGap and Pres78.

Either way VSA requires study. If you want to learn a foreign language you have to put a lot of effort and many many hours of studing and practice, and nobody doubt about that.

Well, for learning VSA is the same way, it requires a lot of effort and screen hours, that's the way it is. Those who want to learn a shortcut are in trouble, the shortcut doesn't exist.

If there are people trying to trade using indicators (I respect it) this is not their thread. It's that simple.
  • #17,474
  • Mar 27, 2011 7:04am Mar 27, 2011 7:04am
Quoting FXing
I agree with both of you, HiddenGap and Pres78.

Either way VSA requires study. If you want to learn a foreign language you have to put a lot of effort and many many hours of studing and practice, and nobody doubt about that.

Well, for learning VSA is the same way, it requires a lot of effort and screen hours, that's the way it is. Those who want to learn a shortcut are in trouble, the shortcut doesn't exist.

If there are people trying to trade using indicators (I respect it) this is not their thread. It's that simple.
Don't get me wrong I have a Hull and PAL on my charts (as well as S/R and POC indicators) and use them in anylizing my trades and to determine the intraday trend and daily S/R, DPP , POC's, VAH's, VAL's etc... Malc also uses indicators along with volume in his trading. My point was more that one needs to understand VSA for getting in and out and not rely on the change of an indicator to do so.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,475
  • Mar 27, 2011 7:27am Mar 27, 2011 7:27am
Quoting pres78
Don't get me wrong I have a Hull and PAL on my charts (as well as S/R and POC indicators) and use them in anylizing my trades and to determine the intraday trend and daily S/R, DPP , POC's, VAH's, VAL's etc... Malc also uses indicators along with volume in his trading. My point was more that one needs to understand VSA for getting in and out and not rely on the change of an indicator to do so.
OK, I use BV, Hull and Market Profile too. But these indicators allow me to analyze the market situation and not to blindly open a long or short position just because a change in this or that color. That's what I was referring in my last post, sorry if I didn't explain it properly.
  • #17,476
  • Mar 27, 2011 8:16am Mar 27, 2011 8:16am
Looking at the 4 hour chart of GU.
The retest is on lower volume. Bounce from here again to the upside? :-)
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #17,477
  • Mar 27, 2011 10:25am Mar 27, 2011 10:25am
Quoting FXing
Well, for learning VSA is the same way, it requires a lot of effort and screen hours, that's the way it is. Those who want to learn a shortcut are in trouble, the shortcut doesn't exist.
Keep in mind, that the more you complicate things, the tougher it is on you.

The market is always here, consuming people who fail to take that time to commit to an understanding.

This isn't a battle of who is right and who is wrong, it is about basic overall market perception...

I mean really...just because somebody doesn't use an indicator or because somebody does, doesn't take away from the quality of person they are or the size of profits they can expect...

The only side you should really be on, is your own.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...stcount=281299
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #17,478
  • Edited 11:08am Mar 27, 2011 10:43am | Edited 11:08am
Quoting Magix
Keep in mind, that the more you complicate things, the tougher it is on you.

The market is always here, consuming people who fail to take that time to commit to an understanding.

This isn't a battle of who is right and who is wrong, it is about basic overall market perception...

I mean really...just because somebody doesn't use an indicator or because somebody does, doesn't take away from the quality of person they are or the size of profits they can expect...

The only side you should really be on, is your own.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...stcount=281299...
That is what VSA is... a way to perceive the market and it's movements. It is no more complicated than any other way of trading and that is what we are all doing here... comitting to an understanding and for us that understanding is based on VSA.

You have created a very interesting thread and "way to perceive the market" that many others follow as they share your way...

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=208103

That is what Malc has created here for those of us who prefer VSA.

Now let's all just get back to trading...
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,479
  • Mar 27, 2011 10:45am Mar 27, 2011 10:45am
Quoting pres78
That is what VSA is... a way to perceive the market and it's movements. It is no more complicated than any other way of trading and that is what we are all doing here... comitting to an understanding and for us that understanding is based on VSA.

Now let's all just get back to trading...
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #17,480
  • Mar 27, 2011 11:03am Mar 27, 2011 11:03am
Quoting Magix
Keep in mind, that the more you complicate things, the tougher it is on you.

The market is always here, consuming people who fail to take that time to commit to an understanding.

This isn't a battle of who is right and who is wrong, it is about basic overall market perception...

I mean really...just because somebody doesn't use an indicator or because somebody does, doesn't take away from the quality of person they are or the size of profits they can expect...

The only side you should really be on, is your own.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...stcount=281299...

Totally agree.
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