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vsa with Malcolm

  • #17,441
  • Mar 26, 2011 11:26am Mar 26, 2011 11:26am
Hi all, long time not posting here because of busy world outside
What do you guys think about gu next week?
Thank you.
  • #17,442
  • Mar 26, 2011 12:37pm Mar 26, 2011 12:37pm
Quoting pres78
Taking that those 3 bar specifically make up a 15min bar on the charts they are a UT over three bars confirmed by that gotcha bar that completly undoes the entire trap up move which occurred after that trigger level was printed.
Yea that's what I thought. I've just never heard the term "Up Thrust over 3 bars" before.

Maybe you can look at a 15 minute chart and see it, but the fact that the next interval is that gottcha type bar tells you the BBs were trying to get the herd long on those bars.

Wow you're good.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #17,443
  • Mar 26, 2011 1:30pm Mar 26, 2011 1:30pm
Quoting HiddenGap
Yea that's what I thought. I've just never heard the term "Up Thrust over 3 bars" before.

Maybe you can look at a 15 minute chart and see it, but the fact that the next interval is that gottcha type bar tells you the BBs were trying to get the herd long on those bars.

Wow you're good.
Also on a 15 min chart wouldn't we consider the bar at 12pm est a no demand bar? and isn't it still valid because the UT closed lower than the close of the no demand bar.

That brings me to a question, on tests such as no demands if the next bar makes a higher high, but closes lower than the close of the no demand do we still consider it valid? I know there are a lot of what ifs, but i've been seeing these a little more, just curious. Kinda like the one we are talking about.
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  • #17,444
  • Mar 26, 2011 1:34pm Mar 26, 2011 1:34pm
also look at this example, I would still consider this valid but just asking the experts. Where my cursor is we have a no supply followed by a bar making a lower low, but the second bar closes above the no supply. Would we still consider this no supply valid?
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  • #17,445
  • Mar 26, 2011 1:42pm Mar 26, 2011 1:42pm
Quoting inks2002
. ..That brings me to a question, on tests such as no demands if the next bar makes a higher high, but closes lower than the close of the no demand do we still consider it valid?...
Very often after a No Demand you will get an Up Thrust. This is one reason that you don't enter on the close of the No Demand (that's in the right place), but rather wait for the low to be taken out.

The confirmation comes when the next interval closes lower than the No Demand.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #17,446
  • Mar 26, 2011 1:45pm Mar 26, 2011 1:45pm
Quoting inks2002
also look at this example, I would still consider this valid but just asking the experts. Where my cursor is we have a no supply followed by a bar making a lower low, but the second bar closes above the no supply. Would we still consider this no supply valid?
This is the same chart I showed. From my prespective, the No Supply is not valid as it is not confirmed because the next bar is down. However the next two bar combined create a 2 Bar Reversal.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #17,447
  • Mar 26, 2011 1:51pm Mar 26, 2011 1:51pm
Quoting HiddenGap
Yea that's what I thought. I've just never heard the term "Up Thrust over 3 bars" before.

Maybe you can look at a 15 minute chart and see it, but the fact that the next interval is that gottcha type bar tells you the BBs were trying to get the herd long on those bars.

Wow you're good.
Well I guess the way to look at it is every 15 min bar is made up of 3 - 5 min bars and in this case we had an UT on the 15 min into new high ground... As soon as I saw this I would switch to the 5 min and wait to see if the next bar was down confirming the 15 min UT. The example you gave not only gave a confirmation but a sign of complete reversal hammering down in one move back below the trigger level. Confirmed weakness and now we look to get in short.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,448
  • Mar 26, 2011 1:54pm Mar 26, 2011 1:54pm
As much as I love chart and tech talk...

Holy Shit do you guys have a lot of rules to really complicate things...

If doing this in the hindsight is this difficult...how the Eff do you trade live on it?
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #17,449
  • Mar 26, 2011 2:01pm Mar 26, 2011 2:01pm
Quoting pres78
Well I guess the way to look at it is every 15 min bar is made up of 3 - 5 min bars and in this case we had an UT on the 15 min into new high ground... As soon as I saw this I would switch to the 5 min and wait to see if the next bar was down confirming the 15 min UT. The example you gave not only gave a confirmation but a sign of complete reversal hammering down in one move back below the trigger level. Confirmed weakness and now we look to get in short.

Advance price action traders that use candles call it candle blending.
Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #17,450
  • Mar 26, 2011 2:16pm Mar 26, 2011 2:16pm
Quoting Magix
As much as I love chart and tech talk...

Holy Shit do you guys have a lot of rules to really complicate things...

If doing this in the hindsight is this difficult...how the Eff do you trade live on it?
A lot of rules to clarify things i feel
  • #17,451
  • Mar 26, 2011 2:22pm Mar 26, 2011 2:22pm
Quoting Magix
As much as I love chart and tech talk...

Holy Shit do you guys have a lot of rules to really complicate things...

If doing this in the hindsight is this difficult...how the Eff do you trade live on it?
Very simple... look for a set-up and pull the trigger much the same as you would. Yes we have rules but it is the rules that are supposed to keep you out of the higher risk trades and get you into the lowest risk ones. Much like you wait for your indicators to be in agreement we have a set of criteria that must be met for a set-up to be valid.

Nothing complicated here...
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,452
  • Mar 26, 2011 2:29pm Mar 26, 2011 2:29pm
Hi Everyone,

I am looking to learn to trade with VSA. What is a good software to learn VSA? Please advise. Thank you very much.
  • #17,453
  • Mar 26, 2011 2:51pm Mar 26, 2011 2:51pm
Quoting Magix
As much as I love chart and tech talk...Holy Shit do you guys have a lot of rules to really complicate things...If doing this in the hindsight is this difficult...how the Eff do you trade live on it?
AHHHH simplicity.

Just go long when everything is green and go short when everything is red. That's what 95% of all traders do. (please pay no attention to the fact that 95% of all traders lose)

BTW, what's so hard about looking for what you want to see, where you want to see it?
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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #17,454
  • Mar 26, 2011 3:20pm Mar 26, 2011 3:20pm
Listening to Trade Guider webinar with Gavin (edit: and Dr Gary Dayton, VSA/Wyckoff Expert)

https://www2.gotomeeting.com/join/696559890/106097479

not too late

posted 15:11 ct
  • #17,455
  • Mar 26, 2011 3:42pm Mar 26, 2011 3:42pm
Seeing what you want to see, where you want to see it.

This is great chart that I took to answer a question from a PM. Unfortunately, I deleted the PM so if this doesn't answer that question just PM me again.

As it happens, this is also a great follow up to my previous post.

Take a look at the chart below.

Before going further, Let's repeat our mantra. It's all about seeing what we want to see, where we want to see it.

Okay, the first thing we need is our trigger bar. How one determines the trigger bar is up to him or her. The most obvious would be very high to ultra high volume bars. I like Herd bars as well, but I am not going to get into them here. The key with the trigger bar is this: if the next bar is up then you would be long biased. If the next bar is down, then you would be short biased.

Now this is nothing new. VSA 101 tells us that an up bar on very high volume followed by a down bar must mean that there was some selling on the up bar. Otherwise the second bar should not be down. So, I have stated something new about trigger bars, but it is not something that has not been stated before. In other words, I haven't added any complexity. Clarification, yes. Complexity, no.

Back to the chart.

In this example we see that the next bar is up so we are long biased. All we are looking for now is a Test or a No Supply at the trigger level which is the close. We always start with the trigger level at the close.

As far as the Test and No Supply go, there are two main ways we would like these bars to appear. One, the low of the bar would not breach the low of the trigger level. And two, the low may breach the trigger level but the close closes on the trigger level. Pretty simple.

The market has other ideas.

We notice that the market begins to trade within a channel. We are also seeing No Demands on some of the up bars. This is a clue that the market does not want to go up at this time. Recognizing a channel is Price action 101 and not exclusive to VSA. Don't blame VSA for the fact that some reasoning skills are involved in trading.

Let's look at the failed test. Here's the rub, you don't actually have to be able to pick this up. In truth, it's subtle and could be missed by many. But what is obvious is what happens after. Price breaks down and closes below the low of the channel. We also note that this is the first close below the low of our trigger bar. We know have to be thinking that this is a downside breakout. We have seen supply come in and evidence on no professional activity on up bars, so the background is weak. In fact, this is a small consolidation period or distribution period.

But we don't just jump in on the short side. We need to see something. Well, to go long we wanted to see Tests or No Supply, to go short we want to see No Demand or Up Thrusts.

Now this is where it gets "complex". Not really. We can see that the trigger level did support the lows of many bars. However the low of the trigger bar supported a number of the closes. Support once broken often becomes resistance (again not VSA and I hope not too complex). Thus we can shift the trigger level from the close to the low.

Bingo. We get a narrow range up bar that closes below the trigger level but its high is at the trigger level. Also note that its close is on the channel low.

I don't think this is difficult. You do need to be willing to use your brain and reason. Then it all comes down to seeing what you want to see, where you want to see it.

Again, the original intent was to answer a PM about trigger levels, I hope I answered that. If not please PM me again. I promise not to delete it a second time.
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Without VSA, you're playing checkers while the Smart Money plays chess.
  • #17,456
  • Mar 26, 2011 3:47pm Mar 26, 2011 3:47pm
Quoting HiddenGap
AHHHH simplicity.

Just go long when everything is green and go short when everything is red. That's what 95% of all traders do. (please pay no attention to the fact that 95% of all traders lose)

BTW, what's so hard about looking for what you want to see, where you want to see it?
Cummon HG...

You can't shit the shitter!

Seriously dude, you point me to 1 thread that does this?

95% of traders do the exact opposite, we both know that.

Ignore the charts and try to guess tops and bottoms...

There are very few traders that post and active threads that actually use a trigger for trends and observe price action, and even on them, you will see the vast majority of posters and replies Guessing the next Big Move...

What does this volume mean?
What does this set of candles say?
Who is buying and who is selling....

The list goes on and on.

I do appreciate the use of Volume in market, but in all seriousness...when these ticks are a moving it remembering the name and initials of the volume or candle pattern doesn't mean diddly, just wether you have the strength and conviction to push the trigger button...

Nothing is wrong with watching for a certain set of criteria in market...like no trade is bad, even the losers, it is how and when you take exit from the trade that really determines your success and failures in this game.

Look back to your 3 bar question, and the question isn't what is the name of that 3 crow stalled pattern, but what do we do when we see it?

Action and reaction.

Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #17,457
  • Mar 26, 2011 3:57pm Mar 26, 2011 3:57pm
Quoting Sonofsin5
Here is an oil etf I play. Matches the movements of oil well without the bull sh$$ stop hunts on futures. Next week is setting up for more topside testing. Ticker (oil) Nyse
P&F chart for OIL http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.pnf?c=oil,P Bullish target of $43.
  • #17,458
  • Mar 26, 2011 4:07pm Mar 26, 2011 4:07pm
Quoting HiddenGap
Seeing what you want to see, where you want to see it.

This is great chart that I took to answer a question from a PM. Unfortunately, I deleted the PM so if this doesn't answer that question just PM me again.

As it happens, this is also a great follow up to my previous post.

Take a look at the chart below.

Before going further, Let's repeat our mantra. It's all about seeing what we want to see, where we want to see it.

Okay, the first thing we need is our trigger bar. How one determines the trigger bar is up to him or her. The...


Excellent, bookmarked! Cheers HG!
  • #17,459
  • Edited 4:28pm Mar 26, 2011 4:08pm | Edited 4:28pm
Quoting Magix
Cummon HG...

You can't shit the shitter!

Seriously dude, you point me to 1 thread that does this?

95% of traders do the exact opposite, we both know that.

Ignore the charts and try to guess tops and bottoms...

There are very few traders that post and active threads that actually use a trigger for trends and observe price action, and even on them, you will see the vast majority of posters and replies Guessing the next Big Move...

What does this volume mean?
What does this set of candles say?
Who is buying and who is selling....

The...
If you don't know the names of the vsa set-ups or how to trade them then all the conviction in the world to push the button is a complete and utter waste of time. If a trader uses vsa then he or she needs to understand vsa. That is what vsa is... Understanding the relationship between volume and spread and how these two factors create different types of bars that mean very different things and knowing what they mean and when and how to trade them, that is what we do here. Just like there are many traders out there with macd's on their charts that haven't got a licks clue how to use them. I have seen more macd number set-ups than I can count. 12-26-9, 5-30-15... Which one works? Hell if I would know.

Vsa on the other hand I understand and I know how to trade it and so do many others on here and others are here trying to learn.

Complicated... Nope its all in taking the time to understand it.

Edit... Oh and by the way I post in an active thread and use trigger levels in most all of my trades. Picking tops and bottoms, nope... who the hell cares. The market tells me when to get in and out.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
  • #17,460
  • Mar 26, 2011 4:31pm Mar 26, 2011 4:31pm
Quoting inks2002
also look at this example, I would still consider this valid but just asking the experts. Where my cursor is we have a no supply followed by a bar making a lower low, but the second bar closes above the no supply. Would we still consider this no supply valid?
The high wasn't taken out within 2 bars so technically that would invalidate that NS.
Today's zone = Tomorrow's opportunity!
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