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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #6,961
  • Mar 17, 2011 3:12am Mar 17, 2011 3:12am
Quoting pavikogm
I'm not asking how stop loss orders are working. I'm asking who and where could make this kind of operation. According to MBT banks were "resting" at 5pm (rollover time). Then who and how was someone able to make transations. There were no banks.
The bulk of the trades during that period were likely happening on the institutional platforms (EBS, Reuters, FXall, Hotspot, etc). Most of the banks/LPs might stop quoting while they process the rollover, but not 100% of them at any given time, hence execution on some venue is still possible (albeit highly illiquid/volatile).

Every ECN broker handles rollover a bit differently (i.e. they may or may not have an offline time with no trading ability, and the offline time may vary). IB is a strict 15-minutes offline. MBT is a bit discretionary it seems (as is Duka IIRC).

MBT may have seen the lack of liquidity/high volatility and extended the offline period a few minutes longer (purely speculation). If so, it would have been done in an effort to protect traders' positions, though in this instance, it may have inadvertently hindered those whose stops weren't executed.

As Justin pointed out, that type of move hasn't happened since the Sunday open post-Lehman bankruptcy. For anyone trapped in a long position with their stop order un-executable, it must have been gut wrenching watching USD/JPY dive 300 large in 20mins.. I imagine the phone lines at a lot of brokers were jammed that hour..
  • #6,962
  • Mar 17, 2011 5:09am Mar 17, 2011 5:09am
Quoting blueJ
Justin or anyone who knows the answer, please help explain this.

2. Since I am also a liquidity provider, where is my option to bypass micro lots when I trade larger lot sizes.
I don't know about the other stuff,
but I know in Currenex you can choose
to not allow partial fills, hope that helps with question number 2
it's too bad MBT doesn't offer Currenex though
Bulls are stupid Animals!especially when Im short!
  • #6,963
  • Mar 17, 2011 6:33am Mar 17, 2011 6:33am
Suddenly I can't open MB Desktop Pro (just playing with it in demo), task manager shows no running processes as well.

The .exe is missing an icon and reinstalling does nothing.

Is there anything else I should do? Was working fine yesterday.

P.S. Do you plan to update the user interface anytime soon? It's very 90s...
"Everyone gets what they want out of the market." -- Ed Seykota
  • #6,964
  • Mar 17, 2011 8:50am Mar 17, 2011 8:50am
Quoting pavikogm
I'm not asking how stop loss orders are working. I'm asking who and where could make this kind of operation. According to MBT banks were "resting" at 5pm (rollover time). Then who and how was someone able to make transations. There were no banks.
Justing said:

No liquiduty? Then what was a purpose of making transation at the market when there are no banks (so no liquidity). Where can I make the same with my million $? No banks, then at 5pm I can move market to any price.

All those explanation aren't sound and reliable. The "exodus" started...
I think you're sort of addressing the problem in your own question. The banks are still moving just because they pause for settlement for a few minutes doesn't change anything. However, the reason that that move was so wicked (and then recovered all the way) was precisely because most of the banks weren't showing much of their liquidity right then when the selling wave came in. It is a time of day where they are usually doing other things and got caught off guard but something that looks like a BoJ intervention. Not much liquidity from the banks + huge sellers = out of control move.
FXChant Singing the World of Forex
  • #6,965
  • Mar 17, 2011 8:51am Mar 17, 2011 8:51am
Quoting Trader KGB
The bulk of the trades during that period were likely happening on the institutional platforms (EBS, Reuters, FXall, Hotspot, etc)....
I think you nailed it. Great answer.
FXChant Singing the World of Forex
  • #6,966
  • Mar 17, 2011 8:52am Mar 17, 2011 8:52am
Justin, thanks for your explanation about why my ECN order was partially filled.

This crossover situation happened again to me since I posted and was the result of the bid being STP and not ECN. I can see that this is going to plague my trading.

It would be nice if we could see a seperation of ECN vs STP on the market depth. If this feature is available within Desktop Pro, could you point me to it. Otherwise, may I suggest it.

True transparency is very important.
  • #6,967
  • Mar 17, 2011 10:13am Mar 17, 2011 10:13am
Quoting Trader KGB
The bulk of the trades during that period were likely happening on the institutional platforms (EBS, Reuters, FXall, Hotspot, etc)....
TraderKGB,

That’s about a perfect explanation. With the move that was occurring, the banks weren’t rushing back up to show liquidity, which delayed by a few minutes bringing everything back up. We have to see certain amounts from certain providers before execution comes online. The lack of liquidity made the selling pressure worse, but it is understandable. You’re basically asking the banks to stand in front of a bus in that scenario. Even if things were not in settlement/rollover mode, they would have been running away from that much selling.
  • #6,968
  • Mar 17, 2011 10:14am Mar 17, 2011 10:14am
Quoting fxking
justin,as u can see your LIVE platform is down again,so many times this week,its really getting everyone nervous and angry! I think the least that your company should do is to ensure that connectivity is up all the time,not down every now and then,i do like MBT but this is really getting unbearable!
Fxking,

You posted this at 11:45 pm EST. I checked with our tech team and there is no outage at 11:45 pm EST. The last downtime was the extended rollover session and potentially a 1-minute spike around 7:45 pm EST where there was some extra bank pricing noise. Other than that, we don’t see anything on our end. Please give me more details and I will take a look.
  • #6,969
  • Mar 17, 2011 10:23am Mar 17, 2011 10:23am
Quoting jleblang
RealPips,

Although at the account management level (see step 1 of my last post), all of our accounts are the same, it’s the extra layers above that that differ between accounts.
Thanks for the explanation Justin. It's not really an issue for me any more because I only use Desktop Pro, which I'm very happy with now(except for the rendering issue), but there was a time when I was into MT4 and opened an account. I was just curious if the one could execute the other, then why not vice-versa and if there had been changes since I opened my MT4 account that would make that possible.

I understand your explanation.

I'll most likely close the MT4 account and transfer the funds to Desktop.
  • #6,970
  • Mar 17, 2011 10:25am Mar 17, 2011 10:25am
Quoting wwwin
Too late Platypussy, I have already sent the forms for Oanda MT4...at least there the same account can trade both fxtrade and MT4, in case of an emergency with the latter, can close or move sl tp from fxtrade....at any rate I already have a good broker for non-EA stuff...You were absolutely correct in your earlier observation that they pay for limits b/c of their lack of liquidity...No matter if you use Desktop pro...not tradeable Sunday open or around rollover before and after. Thank you, as always for your kind words of wisdom.
The folks over at the Oanda support forum are going to love you...
  • #6,971
  • Edited 11:16am Mar 17, 2011 11:02am | Edited 11:16am
This forum is not about trading styles or "best practices" per se, but I thought I'd comment on it a little as it pertains to avoiding the kind of problems we are discussing, and since I'm feeling particularly pious and profound this morning! J/K

Short term, highly leveraged trading strategy with long term MM strategy, is a very nasty combo if you desire to retain account equity. If you are concerned about eliminating large losses, don't keep trades open during rollover or weekend - because bad, bad things happen at those times and it's not MBT's or anybody else's fault(except yours for taking the risk). It's very simple.

I suppose that's why everybody is legally required to state, "Currency trading involves significant risk of financial loss" And you are required to sign papers that state that you understand this and if the market goes crazy and you don't get filled until your account is negative, then you will owe them money because they do not control whether you get a fill or not or even whether they will be able to liquidate your position at margin call. It is the same for every person that trades currency through a retail broker.

This is one of the distinct differences between demo/backtesting and real life. It's a big, yucky world out there. Nobody's got your back but you.
  • #6,972
  • Mar 17, 2011 11:24am Mar 17, 2011 11:24am
Justin, can you explain why I cannot close a position for less than 1K, but the desk can? One would think that if they can, that something could be incorporated into Desktop Pro to let us close small "straggler" lots that don't get filled.
  • #6,973
  • Edited 8:49pm Mar 17, 2011 11:45am | Edited 8:49pm
Quoting smittens4212
Wait, before you go (I know you are still reading this thread!), please tell me how much more money you are making than the rest of us!!!!

Here is a gift for the cheerleaders, buy EUR/JPY now 110.50 BEFORE G7 concerted intervention today 6:00 pm Eastern. If you are short yen pair, cover now.
  • #6,974
  • Mar 17, 2011 11:52am Mar 17, 2011 11:52am
Quoting wwwin
Here is a gift for the cheerleaders, buy EUR/JPY now 110.50 BEFORE G7 concerted intervention today 6:00 pm Eastern. If you are short yen, cover now.
no need for stuff like this in this thread.
  • #6,975
  • Mar 17, 2011 12:40pm Mar 17, 2011 12:40pm
Hi,

I was just about to open an account on MB when I read some comments here about the platform not allowing access during trading hours (apart from stated daily rollover period) and statements that the platform froze at times.

This used to happen to me with other brokers that I understand now are MM and probably created this kind of incidents on purpose and since I've been burned, i would like to know whether MB clients experience the same problems.

Thanks for any feedback!
  • #6,976
  • Mar 17, 2011 2:16pm Mar 17, 2011 2:16pm
Quoting LeFrog
Hi,

I was just about to open an account on MB when I read some comments here about the platform not allowing access during trading hours (apart from stated daily rollover period) and statements that the platform froze at times.

This used to happen to me with other brokers that I understand now are MM and probably created this kind of incidents on purpose and since I've been burned, i would like to know whether MB clients experience the same problems.

Thanks for any feedback!
MB platform used to go down twice a day, once at 5 pm EST rollover and once at midnight EST for server maintenance. That is no longer the case. It now goes down for the 5 pm EST rollover only, typically 5-10 minutes, sometimes a little longer, just depends on when the banks get their systems up so there is enough liquidity. Welcome to the boards with your first post!
FXChant Singing the World of Forex
  • #6,977
  • Mar 17, 2011 3:30pm Mar 17, 2011 3:30pm
Quoting fxchant
MB platform used to go down twice a day, once at 5 pm EST rollover and once at midnight EST for server maintenance. That is no longer the case. It now goes down for the 5 pm EST rollover only, typically 5-10 minutes, sometimes a little longer, just depends on when the banks get their systems up so there is enough liquidity. Welcome to the boards with your first post!

Thanks FXCHANT. I was afraid to expect some FXCM/OANDA-type shutdowns!
  • #6,978
  • Mar 17, 2011 6:49pm Mar 17, 2011 6:49pm
Realpips, Justin, anyone:

Can someone explain "pegged" orders to me - how they work, why they are used, what is the advantage?

I've read the explanation on the web site: "An order with a limit price that tracks the national best bid or offer (NBBO). For example, a Pegged order to BUY would submit a limit order at the best offer and follow that price (either up or down) until the entire order is executed." I don't get it. It seems to be saying that, if the market is 8x10, the pegged order would put in a limit buy at 10. Wouldn't this cause the bid-ask spread to immediately drop to zero? (10x10) I don't see that happening on the FX board. What am I missing here?

I did try using a pegged order in demo, but things moved too fast for me to fully understand what was happening.

Realpips, you mentioned using this type of order, which is what caught my attention. Would you be willing to explain why you use this type of order? I have a hunch this is something I should be interested in, but so far it just hasn't clicked.

Lastly, do pegged orders qualify for 'pay for limits' treatment?

Thanks in advance,
__________
Look Deeper
  • #6,979
  • Mar 17, 2011 10:47pm Mar 17, 2011 10:47pm
Quoting wwwin
Here is a gift for the cheerleaders, buy EUR/JPY now 110.50 BEFORE G7 concerted intervention today 6:00 pm Eastern. If you are short yen pair, cover now.
Good call.
  • #6,980
  • Mar 18, 2011 1:15am Mar 18, 2011 1:15am
Perhaps you are assuming a pegged order to buy goes to the offer. Assuming the opposite, it would peg the bid and therefore be useful in a market making strategy.

Quoting LookDeeper
Realpips, Justin, anyone:

Can someone explain "pegged" orders to me - how they work, why they are used, what is the advantage?...
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