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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #6,921
  • Mar 15, 2011 1:55pm Mar 15, 2011 1:55pm
I've got a quick question Justin and you may have answered this before, but as we are talking about using Desktop simultaneously with MT4 it makes me wonder why it is necessary to have 2 different accounts.

So Desktop Pro can trade from Desktop Pro or MT4 based accounts, but MT4 can only use it's own account? What is the difference between the account types?
  • #6,922
  • Mar 15, 2011 1:55pm Mar 15, 2011 1:55pm
Quoting jleblang
Now you guys are all starting to bug me. Just kidding, thanks for the comments.

Let me try to put some clarity into this. I’m sure that someone will have something snarky to say in response, but this is the reality.

1) Our execution and routing systems are one component of your account. We take bank quotes and live customer Limit orders (we always have, but now we pay for those Limits) and compile them into a single quote feed. This feed is provided to our partners, our internal platforms, and platforms like MT4. It is the same live feed, there...
Justin, I follow this thread via subscription just because of posts like your last that add the detail that we need to see as traders so we understand the market that we are in. Always enlightening and I thank you for the time you take. I really don't know how you manage to stay above the fray. Excellent post.
  • #6,923
  • Mar 15, 2011 1:59pm Mar 15, 2011 1:59pm
Justin -

Quick question regarding the GMT offset for MBT's MT4 trading platform: currently I am showing the platform at GMT -6. Did this change from another offset last week along with the shift to daylight savings time over the U.S. weekend? Sorry for the newbie question, but I'm just now going live with MBT and wanted to know this before setting up trading parameters.

Thanks in advance!
c4p
  • #6,924
  • Mar 15, 2011 3:18pm Mar 15, 2011 3:18pm
Quoting RealPips
I've got a quick question Justin and you may have answered this before, but as we are talking about using Desktop simultaneously with MT4 it makes me wonder why it is necessary to have 2 different accounts.

So Desktop Pro can trade from Desktop Pro or MT4 based accounts, but MT4 can only use it's own account? What is the difference between the account types?
RealPips,

Although at the account management level (see step 1 of my last post), all of our accounts are the same, it’s the extra layers above that that differ between accounts. Think of Desktop as the account level. By default, anyone can log into Desktop or Desktop Pro with their account. It’s built at the core level. It is our own product and really API/SDK all in one. So if you want a Desktop Account (Desktop Pro is the same), you just open an account and trade from it, and you get access to all 22 FX order types, etc.

MT4 is different. Although the account management is still done at the core level, MT4 is a user interface that is a level above. However, our 22 order types that we offer are not available in MT4. Something like pegged orders, stop limits, trailing stops (server side pip-for-pip) are just things that Meta doesn’t do. To be blunt, Meta speaks a different language with less words. That’s pretty much it.

So when you open an MT4 account, we entitle your account so that orders can be routed from MT4 through our “bridge” or whatever you want to call it to the Trade Servers and back, but it’s limited to the market and limit functionality of Meta (stop orders sit on the Meta server until they hit, then fire a market order). Essentially, you have two order types that come out of Meta (Limit and Market). The trailing stops in MT4, which behaving awkwardly, are price-managed from your computer, not our server, and then become a Market order when fired.

So, we can’t allow you to trade from the Desktop level when you have an MT4 authorized account because it causes all sorts of problems. Meta doesn’t know what to do with the position and fill. Meta keeps deals separate, which is awkward. Desktop keeps an average cost and lets you manage with orders around that. So with a Desktop account, you have full access to enter orders through our software and no access to Meta because it wouldn’t be useful. For an MT4 account, you have full access to enter orders through MT4, but since the account level is still handle at the Desktop level, you can log INTO Desktop or Pro and view your account and trades and buying power and such, but we have to disable trading from it so no conflicts arise.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll probably have to say it again, but MT4 users would be well-advised to run Desktop or Pro at the same time and watch the Positions, Orderbook, and Messages windows in particular. You’ll see exactly what the status of your orders are that way, much better than in MT4 when you get something like “OffQuotes.”
  • #6,925
  • Mar 15, 2011 8:58pm Mar 15, 2011 8:58pm
Quoting jleblang
.... I would put our “downtime” up against any other broker (forex or otherwise) in the industry....
This tells me that none of the recurring problems will be resolved. I have lost faith in the company. Sooner or later somebody is going to get stuck with a big position and a big loss in a fast moving market, and I am not going to be around to take that risk. I am done with this broker. Good luck to all.
  • #6,926
  • Mar 15, 2011 9:06pm Mar 15, 2011 9:06pm
Justin or anyone who knows the answer, please help explain this.

Yesterday on EUR/USD I set a limit to sell 2 micro lots at 1.38932 (well in advance of the price reaching this level)

The bid got as high as 1.38936 and only 1 of my micro lots were executed.

So, the quote for EUR/USD was:

1.38936 x 1.38932 ( A cross market)

I was told that some liquidity providers don't have to honor micro lots. My questions are:

1. What is the minimum size that ALL of MBT liquidity providers must execute against within the liquidity pool. It is apparent that at least some of themn can bypass micro lots.

2. Since I am also a liquidity provider, where is my option to bypass micro lots when I trade larger lot sizes.

3. Are there liquidity pools seperated within MBT's overall liquidity pool that my orders are restricted to.. for example a Micro Lot Liquidity Pool that only gets executed against other Micro Lots. If this is so, I would like my market depth to reflect my liquidity pool.


Since I have not got a satisfactory answer to these questions yet by emailing MBT, I am beginning to get the feeling that my small orders are not getting equal execution and are perhaps being executed only when an arbitrage, within the MBT liquidity pool, presents itself.

I am hoping that Justin or some other MBT user may have more knowledge about how this situation was possible and it's rules.

Normally it would be very hard to notice that my order only got partially filled as this crossover is very small. However, it just so happened that 1.38936 was the high for a long period of time, and so my partially filled order to sell at 1.38932 stuck out.

I thank you in advance for taking the time to read and comment on my dilemna.
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  • #6,927
  • Mar 15, 2011 9:38pm Mar 15, 2011 9:38pm
Quoting wwwin
This tells me that none of the recurring problems will be resolved. I have lost faith in the company. Sooner or later somebody is going to get stuck with a big position and a big loss in a fast moving market, and I am not going to be around to take that risk. I am done with this broker. Good luck to all.

Hey Winnie the poop......... you probably know that I do not restrain myself when is time to bash those bucket shops out there, but in this case I think they have a point.

In my opinion you should dump metatrader for good, or use it just for charting and give their native platform a try. Than if you find major problems I think it will be wise to go looking for something else.

Metatrader is the buggiest piece of software around and I'm still to see somebody able to tame this beast. Those Russians were high in radioactive vodka when they coded it , so stop messing with that piece of c***

Now that said I would like to stress my point that MB trading is just another MM bucketshop under another name.

But again....just like oanda, FXCM, etc if you know what you are doing they can't get you.
  • #6,928
  • Edited 10:05pm Mar 15, 2011 9:53pm | Edited 10:05pm
Quoting Platypus
Hey Winnie the poop......... you probably know that I do not restrain myself when is time to bash those bucket shops out there, but in this case I think they have a point.

In my opinion you should dump metatrader for good, or use it just for charting and give their native platform a try. Than if you find major problems I think it will be wise to go looking for something else.

Metatrader is the buggiest piece of software around and I'm still to see somebody able to tame this beast. Those Russians were high in radioactive vodka when they coded...
Too late Platypussy, I have already sent the forms for Oanda MT4...at least there the same account can trade both fxtrade and MT4, in case of an emergency with the latter, can close or move sl tp from fxtrade....at any rate I already have a good broker for non-EA stuff...You were absolutely correct in your earlier observation that they pay for limits b/c of their lack of liquidity...No matter if you use Desktop pro...not tradeable Sunday open or around rollover before and after. Thank you, as always for your kind words of wisdom.
  • #6,929
  • Mar 15, 2011 9:54pm Mar 15, 2011 9:54pm
Quoting jleblang
We also offer third party connectivity to our order routing and account management systems through both an SDK/API (for smaller, more personal projects) and through something called FIX (for institutional and commercial level products). A lot of people mention Ninja Trader. They connect to us through FIX.
Justin,

If I want to use the 3rd party platform like Ninja Trader, Tradeinterceptor or Multicharts, etc. Which account should I have? Is it Desktop pro account? Or is it a different account like MT4?

If the above 3rd party platform can use desktop pro account, does that means I can use desktop pro and those 3rd party platform to trade?
  • #6,930
  • Mar 16, 2011 12:30am Mar 16, 2011 12:30am
ROFLMAO.

So let me get this straight. Between when you said:

Like you I will wait until the next big mess before switching...cause I like the spread and the pay for limit...but if this continues have no choice.

And when Justin gave you a detailed explanation, you came up with:

Quoting wwwin
This tells me that none of the recurring problems will be resolved. I have lost faith in the company. Sooner or later somebody is going to get stuck with a big position and a big loss in a fast moving market, and I am not going to be around to take that risk. I am done with this broker. Good luck to all.
Good news for the rest of us either way, but come on.
  • #6,931
  • Mar 16, 2011 2:59am Mar 16, 2011 2:59am
Quoting wwwin
Too late Platypussy, I have already sent the forms for Oanda MT4...at least there the same account can trade both fxtrade and MT4, in case of an emergency with the latter, can close or move sl tp from fxtrade....at any rate I already have a good broker for non-EA stuff...You were absolutely correct in your earlier observation that they pay for limits b/c of their lack of liquidity...No matter if you use Desktop pro...not tradeable Sunday open or around rollover before and after. Thank you, as always for your kind words of wisdom.
big mistake going with oanda mt-4, you think your suffering now
  • #6,932
  • Mar 16, 2011 9:51am Mar 16, 2011 9:51am
Quoting Chip4Pips
Justin -

Quick question regarding the GMT offset for MBT's MT4 trading platform: currently I am showing the platform at GMT -6. Did this change from another offset last week along with the shift to daylight savings time over the U.S. weekend? Sorry for the newbie question, but I'm just now going live with MBT and wanted to know this before setting up trading parameters.

Thanks in advance!
c4p
I believe that we are still GMT – 5 but with DST here in the US and not in Europe, not sure what that does. I can research if you like. We will be moving to GMT+2 soon.
  • #6,933
  • Mar 16, 2011 9:51am Mar 16, 2011 9:51am
Quoting blueJ
Justin or anyone who knows the answer, please help explain this.

Yesterday on EUR/USD I set a limit to sell 2 micro lots at 1.38932 (well in advance of the price reaching this level)

The bid got as high as 1.38936 and only 1 of my micro lots were executed.

So, the quote for EUR/USD was:

1.38936 x 1.38932 ( A cross market)

I was told that some liquidity providers don't have to honor micro lots....
blueJ,

Thanks for the question and sorry if you got any answers that weren’t clear from anyone.

Here is the situation. Let’s say that you lay out 5 lots to sell of EURUSD at 9 when the quote is 8 by 10 (for ease of example). That means that the quote becomes 8 by 9, with you being the seller at 9.

If another customer of ours buys anything, they hit you. If they buy 2, you sell 2. If they buy 6, you sell 5 and their other 1 goes elsewhere. Etc.

Meanwhile, let’s assume that banks are the bid at 8. Now, if our customers place market buy orders or limits at 9 or higher, they hit you. However, if a bank partner moves their bid up to 9 or higher, it doesn’t sweep you because the banks don’t interact on the ECN. They provide quotes to us via STP. So, let’s say that while you are offering at 9, a bank goes 9 bid. That means that the quote goes 9 by 9. We then pull your order off of the ECN and send it to the bank for execution. So, in theory, they could move their bid up to 9, and in the time that it takes for our servers to see it, cancel your order on the ECN, and route to them, they could already be hit and drop. Then your order gets rejected, comes back to us, and goes back up as a limit on the ECN. It seems pretty rare, especially on a small order, but it can happen and it fits exactly with your scenario, especially of a crossed quote, which implies something going on in the market. The banks rarely cross each other because they all see each other.
  • #6,934
  • Mar 16, 2011 9:54am Mar 16, 2011 9:54am
Quoting $$Trader
Justin,

If I want to use the 3rd party platform like Ninja Trader, Tradeinterceptor or Multicharts, etc. Which account should I have? Is it Desktop pro account? Or is it a different account like MT4?

If the above 3rd party platform can use desktop pro account, does that means I can use desktop pro and those 3rd party platform to trade?
$$Trader,

The third party that you are looking at should give you instructions on which account to open to make sure that you are linked to them. Typically its a desktop account and you'll be required to have the Desktop (not PRO), downloaded.

Always double check though - I believe all three have info in their forums about MBT.
  • #6,935
  • Mar 16, 2011 9:56am Mar 16, 2011 9:56am
Quoting PoundTrader
big mistake going with oanda mt-4, you think your suffering now
I dont like MT4 but atleast with Oanda you can use the same account on both platforms fxtrade and MT4 , i think MB should do this as a backup option for the client .
  • #6,936
  • Mar 16, 2011 10:57am Mar 16, 2011 10:57am
Quoting wwwin
This tells me that none of the recurring problems will be resolved. I have lost faith in the company. Sooner or later somebody is going to get stuck with a big position and a big loss in a fast moving market, and I am not going to be around to take that risk. I am done with this broker. Good luck to all.
Wait, before you go (I know you are still reading this thread!), please tell me how much more money you are making than the rest of us!!!!

  • #6,937
  • Mar 16, 2011 10:59am Mar 16, 2011 10:59am
Quoting smittens4212
Wait, before you go (I know you are still reading this thread!), please tell me how much more money you are making than the rest of us!!!!

That would be awesome!
  • #6,938
  • Mar 16, 2011 3:37pm Mar 16, 2011 3:37pm
Quoting jleblang
I believe that we are still GMT – 5 but with DST here in the US and not in Europe, not sure what that does. I can research if you like. We will be moving to GMT+2 soon.
Yes, please research and let me know as it can impact trading windows if the MBT server switches time when N. America switches to DST. For what its worth, I have couple of EAs that are showing your servers now running at GMT -6, so it looks to me like MBT did switch with the shift if your normal GMT offset is -5.

Thanks for the info on the upcoming switch to GMT +2, as well. What's the time horizon for this change?
  • #6,939
  • Mar 16, 2011 3:41pm Mar 16, 2011 3:41pm
Quoting Chip4Pips
For what its worth, I have couple of EAs that are showing your servers now running at GMT -6, so it looks to me like MBT did switch with the shift if your normal GMT offset is -5.
I would check your scripts. EDT offset is -4 *not* -6.
  • #6,940
  • Mar 16, 2011 3:45pm Mar 16, 2011 3:45pm
Quoting Chip4Pips
I have couple of EAs that are showing your servers now running at GMT -6, so it looks to me like MBT did switch with the shift if your normal GMT offset is -5.
Last Week: MBT Servers on US EST (GMT-5)
This Week: MBT Servers on US EDT (GMT-4)
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