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College Grad Looking to Make as a Trader

  • #21
  • Mar 13, 2011 10:54am Mar 13, 2011 10:54am
[quote=Traderlarry;4467086]My advice:

1) get a real job. Trading is not a profession.
[quote]

Like someone else mentioned. What about the thousands of different trading professional jobs that are advertised every single year? Trading is a profession in my opinion.
  • #22
  • Mar 13, 2011 12:07pm Mar 13, 2011 12:07pm
Quoting IanMH
Hello everyone,
I'd like to tell you a little bit about my situation and ask some advice. So here's my story. Around sophomore year when the housing bubble burst I began to take an interest in the economy. I guess that's when I first caught the bug. Since then I have made an effort to follow the markets every day and learn all I can. I've traded equities a bit and had some success but feel much more comfortable in forex. That being said I've never staked real money in this market. I started demo trading last year after doing the Baby Pips thing...
Major problem would be to find somebody who can actually prove he can trade a real account. One could have hundres of seperate forex accounts and only inform on the few makng money. Look for somebody who can give you his real Oanda.com account, every single serious forex trader has an Oanda account because of their spreads.

Once you have found this person you would have to explain your situation and try and convince him as to why he should reveal his method. It is doubtful if he will.
  • #23
  • Mar 13, 2011 12:19pm Mar 13, 2011 12:19pm
Quoting StephanusR
Major problem would be to find somebody who can actually prove he can trade a real account. One could have hundres of seperate forex accounts and only inform on the few makng money. Look for somebody who can give you his real Oanda.com account, every single serious forex trader has an Oanda account because of their spreads.

Once you have found this person you would have to explain your situation and try and convince him as to why he should reveal his method. It is doubtful if he will.
haha, there are also some other really good brokers out there. No need for a serious forex trader to have an oanda account.
  • #24
  • Mar 13, 2011 12:20pm Mar 13, 2011 12:20pm
Quoting Custos
haha, there are also some other really good brokers out there. No need for a serious forex trader to have an oanda account.
Indeed, I wouldn't want to pay the oanda spreads...
  • #25
  • Mar 13, 2011 12:29pm Mar 13, 2011 12:29pm
Quoting Traderlarry
My advice:

1) get a real job. Trading is not a profession.
Not only is trading a profession - speculative capital is required for the functioning of financial markets.

If there were central banks and corporates only in the fx market, who would take the other side of their transactions? And how would we know the fair value of a currency?

Traders, regardless of timeframe, perform an essential role in the market's process of price determination. So not just a job, but an honourable one and essential for a healthy economy.
  • #26
  • Mar 13, 2011 12:38pm Mar 13, 2011 12:38pm
Quoting medici
Not only is trading a profession - speculative capital is required for the functioning of financial markets.

If there were central banks and corporates only in the fx market, who would take the other side of their transactions? And how would we know the fair value of a currency?

Traders, regardless of timeframe, perform an essential role in the market's process of price determination. So not just a job, but an honourable one and essential for a healthy economy.
Don't forget the bond market. Somebody buys 1bil euro no matter what the euro is trading at of German bunds , not because he wants to short the usd.
  • #27
  • Mar 13, 2011 12:40pm Mar 13, 2011 12:40pm
Quoting StephanusR
Don't forget the bond market. Somebody buys 1bil euro no matter what the euro is trading at of German bunds , not because he wants to short the usd.
I'm afraid I don't see the point of what you are saying. Of course there are both speculative and non-speculative participants in the markets.

EDIT: And could we please stay focused on discussion aimed at supporting the thread starter, please?
  • #28
  • Mar 13, 2011 1:44pm Mar 13, 2011 1:44pm
Quoting StephanusR
Major problem would be to find somebody who can actually prove he can trade a real account. One could have hundres of seperate forex accounts and only inform on the few makng money. Look for somebody who can give you his real Oanda.com account, every single serious forex trader has an Oanda account because of their spreads.

Once you have found this person you would have to explain your situation and try and convince him as to why he should reveal his method. It is doubtful if he will.

oh right, i forgot
13. stay away from forex forums.
  • #29
  • Mar 13, 2011 3:05pm Mar 13, 2011 3:05pm
Ian
i waited 5 years before actually getting involved, making a tidy profit in the 5 months i have been trading,
i started with 2 pips a trade on GBP/USD and just stick to GBP / USD as that is what i feel comfortable with, not once have i done any other currency.
i leave trades open until they make a profit and dont lose any sleep at all, but you have to know when to close a losing trade, it goes against the grain but you must be able to do this, and look at the monthly not weekly sitiuation.
i dont really study the charts but you do get a feeling of when they have reached a pinnacle or touched the bottom.
but above all i read every bit of info on the economy and get up at 05:30 every weekday to check bloomberg etc.
it still gives me a kick when placing / closing a trade, when this feeling goes thats when i get out.
good luck in what ever you decide to do, but must admit i wish i had started earlier.
Grant01
  • #30
  • Mar 13, 2011 3:30pm Mar 13, 2011 3:30pm
Here's a couple tidbits I could impart as one who has made the journey himself(about 4 years) and considers himself to be a "successful forex trader." I am a 100% manual, short term, discretionary trader with basically naked charts.

1. Do not demo trade after you have figured out that the software runs on your machine without issue. Demo is a waste of time for learning real trading. Live trade with small risk. If you can't afford to trade $.10 a pip, I suppose you should keep demoing until you can.

2. Do not fund your account with more(or less) than 1K to start. 1K is big enough that you can trade with reasonable MM, even at 50:1, but small enough that it will not be devastating to lose. If you cannot grow 1K into 2K(or whatever return is acceptable to you), you shouldn't be opening 10K+ accounts. I would be WAY ahead of the game if I had understood this when I started(read: if I wasn't ignorant and greedy when I started).

3. Take profit regularly. I'm not talking about closing trades in profit, I'm talking about really taking your profit out. At the end of the week, if there is profit, I take 35% and withdraw to my bank account. Doesn't matter what happens next week, I'm taking mine now. That makes a big difference on my daily "psychology", knowing if I fuck it up, it will be my fault that there is no check at the end of the week.

4. Learn to lose as little as possible, vs making as much as possible. Subtle, but major shift in attitude there..

5. Learn to accept loss as readily as gain(and keep them small). Still a hard one for me, but I'm getting there. I WILL be more profitable if I remember this.

6. Chart time, chart time and more chart time. Then one day it will all seem so simple, you'll just laugh about it(or cry).

7. Lots of other stuff that others have said above...
  • #31
  • Mar 13, 2011 4:06pm Mar 13, 2011 4:06pm
Leverage will blow up most good methods... know it... test it... and figure how to or not to use it. The quickest way to blow an account is to use too much leverage, why do you think it is offered so easily? Even if your strategy is sound.

Why isn't that in any training course or book???

"Oh no... there are two men in black suits that just knocked on my door..."
  • #32
  • Mar 13, 2011 4:11pm Mar 13, 2011 4:11pm
Combine posts #2, 4, and 7 and you're ready to go.

Oh, and forget working a normal job. It will screw up your thought process, you will have to erase the connection between time, effort and reward to make it. It was the worse thing in my life I ever had to unlearn. It's like removing a tattoo with a cheese grater.
  • #33
  • Mar 13, 2011 5:21pm Mar 13, 2011 5:21pm
Quoting medici
Not only is trading a profession - speculative capital is required for the functioning of financial markets.

If there were central banks and corporates only in the fx market, who would take the other side of their transactions? And how would we know the fair value of a currency?

Traders, regardless of timeframe, perform an essential role in the market's process of price determination. So not just a job, but an honourable one and essential for a healthy economy.
I don't disagree with you on the arguments you brought forth,however, I was arguing from the college grads's position.

I believe that he should aquire skills for a "traditional" job first so that he has something to rely on if trading doesn't work out, and that's just very likely.

And yes, I think being a trader cannot be regarded simply as a job.

Normally, you go to medical school, become a doctor and do this fo the rest of your life...or you learn to cut hair and become a hair dresser, whatever...I have not heard that 95% of hair dressers fail at running a barber's shop or that 90% of doctors go broke in the long run.

In trading, most people lose in the long run, so you you better have a backup, just in case...

A failed pianist can still become a piano teacher, what does a failed trader do -except from running a signal service ?

Trading skills cannot be used outside trading ( " look, I drew a resistance line, oh look, the MACD just topped").
  • #34
  • Mar 13, 2011 6:06pm Mar 13, 2011 6:06pm
Quoting Traderlarry
I don't disagree with you on the arguments you brought forth,however, I was arguing from the college grads's position.

I believe that he should aquire skills for a "traditional" job first so that he has something to rely on if trading doesn't work out, and that's just very likely.

And yes, I think being a trader cannot be regarded simply as a job.

Normally, you go to medical school, become a doctor and do this fo the rest of your life...or you learn to cut hair and become a hair dresser, whatever...I have not heard that 95% of hair dressers...
Please forgive me for putting it bluntly, but this you've got completely wrong.

Leaving other markets aside, every day in the fx market about 50% of the turnover is speculative. Significant amounts of money are traded by professionals, most of whom enjoy relatively successful careers. Of course, not everyone is successful, but that happens in all professions.

And some of those professionals start out just like Ian - with a university degree and a passion for trading. That I know because some of them belong to my circle of friends and acquaintances.

That 90% of lackadaisical amateurs lose all their money has absolutely nothing to do with the profession of trading.

And the skills acquired by professional traders are highly transferable, just like many elite athletes tend to do well professionally based on skills acquired in their sports careers.
  • #35
  • Mar 14, 2011 2:18am Mar 14, 2011 2:18am
My advice after having completed partial journey:

1)Get a job. Srsly. You need the income to flow in to at least fund your account. You will probably burn 1 or 2 accounts. This is my 3rd year trading and I can tell you I burnt 2 accounts during my 1st and 2nd year. I don't believe in people who has never burnt an account (or close to burning it). This thing is like fire. You need to feel it at least once to respect it.

2)Get a job in finance. Start off junior. You are willing to sacrifice so much. This one shouldn't be an issue. Being in the industry should at least give you some contacts and networking. Thought, don't get your hopes high coz most entry level jobs as I understand it is powerpoint and not even trading related.

3)I'm sad to say, unless you get very close mentorship from a succesful trader, you are highly unlikely to make a living by trading after 1 or 2 years. It takes me 3 years of making mistakes to finally stabilize. Most only start to trade for a living successfully and consistently from their 4th year onwards.

4)Get forex tester. I'm not affiliated to it but it really accelerates your learning 1mio times. Nothing beats forward testing and this one is the best thing out there. It really puts into perspective what is achievable and not.
  • #36
  • Mar 14, 2011 4:17am Mar 14, 2011 4:17am
Medici,

should Ian secure a trading related job, that's a different story. I just don't think that right after university, sitting at home starring at charts for the next few years and doing late night shifts in a supermarket is a smart move - it severly screws up your CV.

What's wrong with studying the markets in the evenings, weekends, using playback to sim trade first. Then, if he wants to get seious, he can trade the Asian/European markets in the evenings/ during the night.

As for trading skills being transferable...I don't believe it one minute. Most failed traders/layed off traders will be happy to drive a taxi or get a job in a bar.
  • #37
  • Mar 14, 2011 4:35am Mar 14, 2011 4:35am
Quoting Traderlarry
Medici,

should Ian secure a trading related job, that's a different story. I just don't think that right after university, sitting at home...
I also tend to agree with you. I don't know how it is in the US, but in europe you need to get REAL skills, which companies need, except you want to become a low paid worker, which shouldn't be the aim for most.

I mean, which kind of skills can a trader offer companies? Maybe some soft skills, meaning discipline, being able to work under high pressure,... But what about real skills? in the finance department you need to know bookkeeping and accounting & maybe taxation, in marketing department you need to know marketing, in the legal department you need to know company law... for any technician job you need to have a thorough understanding of that field, meaning either a degree or long years of experience.
You can't gain such knowledge from trading. Going all in on a profession like trading, where you HAVE to be in the top 5% to even make money without a backup plan is just plain stupid. In all other jobs you can do a mediocre job and still earn money. In trading you can't be mediocre, cause then you gonna lose everything.
Having said that, once you know trading inside out you can trade at night, or trade longer time-frames, or take off a year or so from work to really see if you can make it & then maybe later become a full-time trader.
  • #38
  • Mar 14, 2011 4:50am Mar 14, 2011 4:50am
Quoting Custos
I don't know how it is in the US, but in europe you need to get REAL skills, which companies need, except you want to become a low paid worker, which shouldn't be the aim for most.
Custos, you hit the nail on the head. The American job market is certainly more flexible than the European job market but it's still going to be tough to make an employer want to hire a failed gambler because that's what you are in the eyes of 99.9% of the population.
  • #39
  • Mar 14, 2011 5:22am Mar 14, 2011 5:22am
Quoting Traderlarry
Medici,

should Ian secure a trading related job, that's a different story. I just don't think that right after university, sitting at home...
Totally agree with you on that. As for transferable skills, I wasn't referring to failed/laid-off traders.
  • #40
  • Mar 14, 2011 6:14am Mar 14, 2011 6:14am
Quoting IanMH
Hello everyone,
I'd like to tell you a little bit about my situation and ask some advice. So here's my story. Around sophomore year when the housing bubble burst I began to take an interest in the economy. I guess that's when I first caught the bug. Since then I have made an effort to follow the markets every day and learn all I can. I've traded equities a bit and had some success but feel much more comfortable in forex. That being said I've never staked real money in this market. I started demo trading last year after doing the Baby Pips thing...
i think i just read my story...
i have situation almost like you..and to be honest mine is much more terrible,, i'm not gonna tell my story, but hey i still survive.. atleast till now.. (i graduate from November last year ),
i believe to myself and i want to make my dream come true..so...LETS MOVE !!!



ps: if you get pressure from family or friends just close your ears open your eyes and keep moving forward. i believe you could pass all of this..
I will be the number one Manager.
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