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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #6,481
  • Feb 9, 2011 4:08pm Feb 9, 2011 4:08pm
Quoting pavikogm
Unfortunately day after day it's getting worse. Exactly at 15:00EST EG has jumped from 1.0 spread to 1.4, and EC from 1.7 to 2.5. It was never before seen for 18 months trading with MBT. Are you really ECN ? I'm a bit doubthfull now... These are common practice of MM when it's looseing money
Wrong, that's exactly how ECNs are. There is no such a thing as a fixed spread in the real world...only market makers "keep" their spread at certain level.
  • #6,482
  • Feb 10, 2011 1:40am Feb 10, 2011 1:40am
Has been bellly, belly good to me. Not only did I not pay any commissions this week, but 5% of my profit was from getting paid for limits. Works for me.
  • #6,483
  • Feb 10, 2011 1:55am Feb 10, 2011 1:55am
Hi all,

I imagine there are some people trading live with MB Trading, and I am almost ready to pull the trigger on a live account with them, but have one discrepancy I'd like to sort out.

There are some missing candles/dead candles on the demo feed for the screenshot posted. Basically, candles 17:02-17:07 are missing completely and candles 17:32-17:48 on this pair are 'dead' if you will.

Could somone please post a screenshot of the MB Trading live GBPCHF 1m feed at the beginning of the week (similar to the one below)? I need to verify that this is just a demo-related issue and not a MB Trading issue.

Thanks in advance!
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Enter Signature
  • #6,484
  • Feb 10, 2011 2:59am Feb 10, 2011 2:59am
Hey CC

There are several possible reasons for what your are showing on the demo chart.
It is around " rollover time", and gaps are possible. There was a gap in real life and you will see gaps on all time frames with all brokers. Price does not always move 1,2,3,4,5, sometimes it moves 1,5. Sometimes 1,1,1,5. etc. Also at that time of day the market is thin and smaller trades can cause gaps. Also it is a demo and I believe MBT still uses the demo for development and testing.

Hope this helps.
  • #6,485
  • Edited 5:26am Feb 10, 2011 5:08am | Edited 5:26am
Quoting CrucialCraig
Hi all,

I imagine there are some people trading live with MB Trading, and I am almost ready to pull the trigger on a live account with them, but have one discrepancy I'd like to sort out.

There are some missing candles/dead candles on the demo feed for the screenshot posted. Basically, candles 17:02-17:07 are missing completely and candles 17:32-17:48 on this pair are 'dead' if you will.

Could somone please post a screenshot of the MB Trading live GBPCHF 1m feed at the beginning of the week (similar to the one below)? I need to verify...
I went looking for the same timeframe via my broker who's feed is quite good (Citibank is the LP), and then realized this is the 5pm NY Sunday opening chart on GBPCHF - a more dead time and convulated pair, I'm not sure you could pick. More on that later ...

Just because you see a wide spread candle, does not mean that every single point along the way was traded - I don't know the rules exactly, but MT4 I think basically connects the highs and lows, to make the candles 'nicer' to look at.

With MBT's MT4 feed coming in through a different methodology via it's own price feed and API, I would not be alarmed at the type of graph you are seeing for this synthetic pair. It still seems to accurately represent price history, although it's not as pleasant to look at. (1M synthetic pair charts are often like this BTW) Throw in a different, higher/wider spread, and oddities that I'm sure are coming from multiple liquidity providers, and you're going to see weirdness such as your graph. The 'flatline' you're seeing can be explained by the latter sentence, and I don't think is anything to worry about.

The 'gap' is your Friday 5pm NY close to Sunday open type 'gap', so nothing to worry about there either.

I feel you've honed in on an extremely niche pair, at a time when I am certain you will not be trading it (nor should any retailer), and have hit on the 'gap' and seemingly created it as a test case; there are far more important factors you have hopefully resolved in choosing to go with MBT - this certainly shouldn't be one of them.

(Oh, and the 'gap' is only there because the intermarket actually opens at 1pm EST Sunday, yet most brokers open 5pm - it's not really a gap from a market perspective.)
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  • #6,486
  • Feb 10, 2011 6:17am Feb 10, 2011 6:17am
Quoting Beljevina
(Oh, and the 'gap' is only there because the intermarket actually opens at 1pm EST Sunday, yet most brokers open 5pm - it's not really a gap from a market perspective.)
That's an interesting fact that I wasn't aware of, so thanks. Any idea which market feed that a smallish retail trader can get hold of would start at that time ?
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,487
  • Feb 10, 2011 9:17am Feb 10, 2011 9:17am
Quoting IndyTrader
Wouldn't you say that's pretty much the issue...
Quoting jleblang
Shrike,

We are aware of how FX Intel calculates the spreads. They will be refining it over time and make the API very easy for us to use, which is why we went with them. You will see improvements in how this works over time. All part of the plan.
mt4i.com and mt4spreads.com have much more practical and useful historical spread information.
Measure trends automatically with zero lag
  • #6,488
  • Feb 10, 2011 10:16am Feb 10, 2011 10:16am
Quoting Beljevina
I went looking for the same timeframe via my broker who's feed is quite good (Citibank is the LP), and then realized this is the 5pm NY Sunday opening chart on GBPCHF - a more dead time and convulated pair, I'm not sure you could pick. More on that later ..................
There Ya go.
I totally missed the fact that this was a week end chart. Heck in this case I would be interested to see a 1 minute that does not have a gap. Never looked but would be surprised if there where any.
  • #6,489
  • Feb 10, 2011 10:39am Feb 10, 2011 10:39am
Quoting bapxyz
Hey CC

There are several possible reasons for what your are showing on the demo chart.
It is around " rollover time", and gaps are possible. There was a gap in real life and you will see gaps on all time frames with all brokers. Price does not always move 1,2,3,4,5, sometimes it moves 1,5. Sometimes 1,1,1,5. etc. Also at that time of day the market is thin and smaller trades can cause gaps. Also it is a demo and I believe MBT still uses the demo for development and testing.

Hope this helps.
Quoting Beljevina
I went looking for the same timeframe via my broker who's feed is quite good (Citibank is the LP), and then realized this is the 5pm NY Sunday opening chart on GBPCHF - a more dead time and convulated pair, I'm not sure you could pick. More on that later ...

Just because you see a wide spread candle, does not mean that every single point along the way was traded - I don't know the rules exactly, but MT4 I think basically connects the highs and lows, to make the candles 'nicer' to look at.

With MBT's MT4 feed coming in through a different methodology...
Hi guys,

Thanks very much for your encouraging words. I am pretty much sold on MBT but just want to lay some final concerns to rest. I am totally aware that there are weekend gaps and that is not the gap I was referring to. The gap from the Friday close and Sunday open exists on all brokers. The particular strategy I use that brings up these questions has a major focus on this exact time (and quite possibly with a pair like this). I'm sure many of you have heard about 'filling the gap' and lack of resistance in those gaps but that's a different story.

My main concern still stands. From 17:02-17:07 on Sunday, would I have been able to place an order? This gap happens on all pairs on MBT for the demo feed, not just this pair. Beljevina, it appears that your screenshot reflects a seamless feed of PA/candles at this time.

I still don’t see any reason that a 1 minute candle should ever be skipped. If price is docile, it should just show an empty candle, no? This would mean that price is not moving but you could still enter the market. I guess I’m wondering if I wanted to place an order at 17:04 on any pair for MBT, what price would it be filled at? Or would I be unable to place an order?

A screenshot of the live MBT feed at this time would be very helpful.

To re-iterate, gaps don't concern me - what concerns me is completely missing candles(not including the weekend gap - that's normal and acceptable with most brokers) and 15 minute periods where price doesn't move at all (I'll have to check if this docile period took place on other pairs as well).

Thanks!
Enter Signature
  • #6,490
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:03am Feb 10, 2011 11:03am
Quoting CrucialCraig
Hi guys,

Thanks very much for your encouraging words. I am pretty much sold on MBT but just want to lay some final concerns to rest. I am totally aware that there are weekend gaps and that is not the gap I was referring to. The gap from the Friday close and Sunday open exists on all brokers. The particular strategy I use that brings up these questions has a major focus on this exact time (and quite possibly with a pair like this). I'm sure many of you have heard about 'filling the gap' and lack of resistance in those gaps but that's a different...
MB doesn't bring their Live servers up until enough of the banks have connected at the start of the week to ensure liquidity. Sometimes that's 17:00, sometimes it's 17:04, sometimes it could even be later. If you are opening your account only to trade at 17:01, then I think you'll have some difficulty as that is a crazy timeframe. Also, on the other days of the week, the platform is down for maintenance for a few minutes in that window.

Having said that, MB never brings up their Demo servers until several minutes AFTER the live environment is up for the week on Sunday. In other words, if Live comes up at 17:02, Demo would come up in the minutes after that. Here's the screenshot you requested of 17:00 ish on Sunday in Live.
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  • #6,491
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:06am Feb 10, 2011 11:06am
Have to say that I'm quite impressed with this change, more than I thought I would be. It's cut my overall costs down about 70% and it works flawlessly every time. Nice job MBT!
  • #6,492
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:07am Feb 10, 2011 11:07am
Quoting CrucialCraig
From 17:02-17:07 on Sunday, would I have been able to place an order?

They suspend trading between 17:00 and 17:05 on Sundays. And sometimes, like a couple of weeks ago you couldn't trade for quite a while after because of what they described as 'poor liquidity'.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,493
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:08am Feb 10, 2011 11:08am
Let me try that again ...

Quoting CrucialCraig
My main concern still stands. From 17:02-17:07 on Sunday, would I have been able to place an order? This gap happens on all pairs on MBT for the demo feed, not just this pair. Beljevina, it appears that your screenshot reflects a seamless feed of PA/candles at this time.[/color]
I would expect you were able to place an order. I don't know of the spread for GBPCHF, but, at this time, it is likely to be huge - you should turn on the ask and bid lines in MT4 to view it - it is the price to pay for poor liquidity in the absolutely most thinnest time of the market. If the regular spread were say 4 pips, 15-20 pips is not unusual.


Quoting CrucialCraig
I still don’t see any reason that a 1 minute candle should ever be skipped. If price is docile, it should just show an empty candle, no? This would mean that price is not moving but you could still enter the market. I guess I’m wondering if I wanted to place an order at 17:04 on any pair for MBT, what price would it be filled at? Or would I be unable to place an order?
I don't think any candle has been skipped, they're just drawn differently, I'm going to guess based on the bank feeds MBT is getting at the time, and, any peculiarities of the API they use to feed MT4. I've put down arrows to show that I don't think there are any skipped candles - they are just very stationary, meaning price is 'stuck' at that level for that minute. I don't see why you couldn't place an order, and get filled.

BTW, there are many charts for thinly traded pairs or commodities or other slimly traded things, that will have their charts look like this on an ongoing basis; there's in fact an arguement to be made that it is more accurate, although not that "pleasing" to the human eye.

I would recommend checking and benchmarking GBPUSD and USDCHF, since that is how this pair is derived. I'm personally not a fan of GBPCHF - because many others aren't as well, trading a 'gap strategy' would be tricky - again, you'd be better trading one or both of it's roots, and, base your decision to MBT or not MBT on other things, that IMO are way more important. (Yes of course liquidity is important, but within reasonable timeframes and expectations)
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  • #6,494
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:09am Feb 10, 2011 11:09am
Quoting wannatradefx
Have to say that I'm quite impressed with this change, more than I thought I would be. It's cut my overall costs down about 70% and it works flawlessly every time. Nice job MBT!

Since this started I haven't ended a day without being in commission credit compared to my previous commission debit. I always place limit trades.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,495
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:12am Feb 10, 2011 11:12am
Quoting dr_who
Since this started I haven't ended a day without being in commission credit compared to my previous commission debit. I always place limit trades.
It is a good offer but dont forget that if u always use limit orders u will miss some pips here and there especially when u want to get out from a losing trade ...
  • #6,496
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:15am Feb 10, 2011 11:15am
Quoting tar
It is a good offer but dont forget that if u always use limit orders u will miss some pips here and there especially when u want to get out from a losing trade ...

Quite the contrary. I always gain pips because I get to place my trades exactly where I want them.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,497
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:21am Feb 10, 2011 11:21am
Quoting tar
It is a good offer but dont forget that if u always use limit orders u will miss some pips here and there especially when u want to get out from a losing trade ...
I don't use them for every entry and exit, not possible, but I typically use them one way on a trade, so now, instead of paying 2.95 twice, I pay 1.00 net. It's very nice. And, I've been watching carefully with both MT4 and Desktop Pro for any games. There are none. The order still displays immediately.
  • #6,498
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:24am Feb 10, 2011 11:24am
Quoting wannatradefx
I don't use them for every entry and exit, not possible, but I typically use them one way on a trade, so now, instead of paying 2.95 twice, I pay 1.00 net. It's very nice. And, I've been watching carefully with both MT4 and Desktop Pro for any games. There are none. The order still displays immediately.
this what i want to tell dr_who it is impossible to use limit orders always without missing some pips ...
  • #6,499
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:26am Feb 10, 2011 11:26am
Quoting tar
this what i want to tell dr_who it is impossible to use limit orders always without missing some pips ...

Sorry, I don't understand that logic. I use the SuperDOM on NinjaTrader and place my entries and exits at exactly the points I want them to be, which is usually in between the spread. I cannot see how its possible this will lose me pips. But I'm always willing to learn.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,500
  • Feb 10, 2011 11:32am Feb 10, 2011 11:32am
Quoting dr_who
Sorry, I don't understand that logic. I use the SuperDOM on NinjaTrader and place my entries and exits at exactly the points I want them to be, which is usually in between the spread. I cannot see how its possible this will lose me pips. But I'm always willing to learn.
sometimes u will not get filled and price will move away ...
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