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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #6,441
  • Feb 7, 2011 11:34am Feb 7, 2011 11:34am
Quoting shrike
Is it possible to send EUR (or GBP) to Wells Fargo London with instructions to further credit it to the proper account for MBTrading? That would help to avoid getting rped on int'l wire fees by banks - since wires within the EU are free. As opposed to direct transatlantic wires, some banks even charge on a % basis for that.
Shrike,

Yes, if you are wiring with EUR or GBP, the funds go through our London bank accounts avoiding the int'l wire fees.
  • #6,442
  • Feb 7, 2011 11:44am Feb 7, 2011 11:44am
Quoting Buildcity
Not the EJ one, but the first trade on EU, open 1 lot but closed with 3 tickets, 0.4, 0.5 and 0.1, exactly on 02:04 today!!

I checked the a/c history once the the above trade stopped out, both tickets with o.4 and 0.5 closing with correct manner. But the last ticket with 0.1 lot, which supposed to be closed with -$2 but it show up -$20. After a while, the history was corrected. But the balance still run out of $20 more!!

Max told me to check the MBT Desktop and I did a moment ago, the balance now is correct but the MT4 still show up the wrong...
There is a known (or unknown I guess) problem with the MT4 Balance not showing the correct Account Balance when trades are closed in MT4. The explanation I have received in the past is that it is a limitation of the MT4 platform and the account balance is correct everywhere else (ie, MBT servers). I see this issue when a trade is closed, but my account balance does not reflect the close transaction commission. I've seen two things work in the past to "fix" this issue and get MT4 to reflect the correct balance:

1) Wait until rollover. This causes a disconnect from the MBT servers. Upon reconnection, the account balance is usually correct.

2) Completely close down MT4 and reopen. The Account Balance should be correct when you login again.

My suggestion: Your situation is a little different, but try shutting down MT4 and then reopening it.
  • #6,443
  • Feb 7, 2011 11:53am Feb 7, 2011 11:53am
Tks man,

switched on and off the MT4 several times during the last 8 hours, still in wrong balance!!

The MBT guy told me to wait the rollover till tmr, suppose the balance should be correct.

Been noticed that some days when I turn on the MBT's MT4, there is always a bit different (the open balance compared to the day before), but I ignored this as I think its the rollover stuff adjustment. But this time is totally unacceptable.

Quoting zznbrm
There is a known (or unknown I guess) problem with the MT4 Balance not showing the correct Account Balance when trades are closed in MT4. The explanation I have received in the past is that it is a limitation of the MT4 platform and the account balance is correct everywhere else (ie, MBT servers). I see this issue when a trade is closed, but my account balance does not reflect the close transaction commission. I've seen two things work in the past to "fix" this issue and get MT4 to reflect the correct balance:

1) Wait until rollover. This...
  • #6,444
  • Feb 7, 2011 3:26pm Feb 7, 2011 3:26pm
Quoting solid54
Justin,

How does the upcoming server GMT change affect the historical data we already have in Metatrader? For example, during the first week the GMT change is implemented, there will not be a Sunday bar, but will a Sunday bar still exist for all previous weeks? Very similar question, how is the historical data from your servers handled if I clear my history and reopen the chart, will the Sunday bar still exist or are you changing the time on all historical data as well? Thanks.
The initial change will only occur in Demo and only occur for data going forward. They will then make the adjustment for backward data after that. When they switch this to Live in the future, it will be for all data. However, I have been told that a glitch has been found and that this change isn’t occurring yet.
  • #6,445
  • Feb 7, 2011 3:29pm Feb 7, 2011 3:29pm
Quoting Traderji
Can anyone else comment if something like this has happened to them? Not being able to trade the NFP is a major issue.
There can be some lag right at the number because of the amount of orders going through the system and being routed. However, I've never experienced anything near 20 minutes of delay after a number. It's hard to say that was a real problem because he was using NT7 and not MB's platform directly, so I wouldn't just assume anything. Try it out for yourself with Desktop or Desktop Pro, that's the best solution.
  • #6,446
  • Feb 7, 2011 3:52pm Feb 7, 2011 3:52pm
Quoting zwaz
Hi

Apologies if this has been covered before.

I am a uk resident and would like to open an account with MB Trading. Is that possible and can i open an account in GBP.

Thanks for your help gus
zwaz,

Yes, you can open and fund your account with GBP denomination.
  • #6,447
  • Feb 7, 2011 3:54pm Feb 7, 2011 3:54pm
Quoting Beljevina
No, the accounting is not the same.

Yes, of course I can sell some of my long position, but I cannot take a short position until I am out of all my longs. If I want to go for a scalp of 30 pips in a short position or say grab a 100 pip shakeout, I can't. If I could, I would then exit that 100 pip short for ~$1000, and then again go long.

I'd heard about subaccounts, but NFA brokers never document that, nor do they seem willing to talk about it when I have brought it up.

I will stick to non-Uncle Sam brokers.
You can stick what whatever type of broker you want, but you're still wrong. If you are long 100 lots and 500 pips in the money, there's no difference between "hedging" to go short 10 lots or just selling 10 lots out of your 100 and buying them back when you would have covered the hedge. Same exact trades, same exact net math! Stop fooling yourself!
  • #6,448
  • Feb 7, 2011 4:10pm Feb 7, 2011 4:10pm
Quoting IndyTrader
You can stick what whatever type of broker you want, but you're still wrong. If you are long 100 lots and 500 pips in the money, there's no difference between "hedging" to go short 10 lots or just selling 10 lots out of your 100 and buying them back when you would have covered the hedge. Same exact trades, same exact net math! Stop fooling yourself!
"Hedging" is pure nonsense. Brokers offer it because they can earn more comissions/spread, that's the only reason.
  • #6,449
  • Feb 7, 2011 4:36pm Feb 7, 2011 4:36pm
Buildcity,

Please take the time to review the FAQ and Release Notes pages of our website about MT4 and how it integrates with our system. I’ve documented this on our thread in the past, and also, we have discussed this in our Webinars and the You Tube videos of the platform.

If you open an MT4 account with us, we open for you what is called a Desktop account, but we turn off the ability to execute from our Desktop software and we enable the ability for you to trade via MT4’s interface. All of our accounting is handled at the Desktop level. It is true FIFO accounting and all of our on-line statements are based on that accounting. MT4 is just an interface that you can use (mostly so people can run pre-existing trades, although some people still like MT4 manual trading). The reason that we have to turn off the Desktop-level execution is because our system has 22 order types for FX, which give you much more control over your orders, but MT4 doesn’t understand those or how they work. MT4 basically just has Market, Stops, and Limits, plus a strange Trailing Stop that only works if you leave your MT4 client running.

So, when you place a trade in MT4, it of course does some Buying Power calculations and uses those as a gauge of whether you can run a trade. However, MT4’s software also gives back Buying Power for profitable trades at a higher rate than our system does. In theory, you can end up with a situation where MT4 is showing more intraday buying power than you really have, and then you might try to place a trade and have it get rejected because the Desktop level accounting didn’t know the same Buying Power. That would be rare and would require a lot of trading volume versus your account size to happen. At the end of each day, at 5 pm EST, we have global rollover where all of the banks in the interbank system halt trading for a few minutes to “settle” the days transactions and reboot servers, etc. Your buying power after that should reset for end of day and should basically match Desktop once again.

MT4 software was designed long before ECNs and STP brokers existed and didn’t originally have the ability to handle commissions or split fills. Metaquotes later added a single commission column, but this column only accepts a number when the trade is initiated. Of course, on a true ECN/STP broker, there is a transaction fee when you enter and exit (or now, with us, potentially a credit). This requires that the closing transaction somehow get appended to the trade after the fact. Due to the process of editing the commission column, the way that our system handles this is that right at the end of the day, 5 minutes before 5 pm EST rollover, all closing commission fees and credits are edited into the commission column for every trade. So, again, during the day, you might have slightly different buying power numbers between MT4 and the actual account because those fees haven’t been credited or deducted. However, you can be logged into your Desktop software at the same time to watch the correct commissions and notices and buying power in real time. In addition, on-line statements are always correct. What gets out of whack sometimes, depending on how you trade, is what MT4 is showing intraday.

Finally, the split or partial fills, since MT4 was never meant to address them, have another side issue, but only in MT4 (again, if you are watching in Desktop at the same time, everything will look fine). When a partial occurs, splitting a trade, the PnL column shows data for the total size, even though the total size wasn’t executed, and then it shows new order IDs for the remaining size. The Trade tab in MT4 is NOT dynamic in that regard. If you refresh a History or open/close MT4, then that will display properly.

It appears to me that these items account for everything you described today, and in fact, no one our end had to adjust anything to your trades. You received a split fill and that created the issue of PnL showing incorrectly in the static Trade tab. That got fixed when you closed and opened the software (it was never wrong, it just had to be refreshed). Because of your trading for the day, you buying power is slightly off, but that should fix after 5 pm EST rollover, which just happened a couple of minutes ago as I wrote this.

In the end, and I say this over and over to everyone, please keep Desktop software logged into your same account and you will see all PnL and commissions correct in real-time with FIFO accounting. MT4 software itself may appear to get slightly off in terms of commissions and buying power over the course of the day, but not by much, and it should correct at rollover every time.
  • #6,450
  • Feb 7, 2011 4:37pm Feb 7, 2011 4:37pm
Quoting Cocoflanel
Justin,



Do you keep stats of the average spread ?

Is it coming down already since 1 february ?
Cocoflanel,

You can view the FX Intel spreads over a month on the pricing page of our website. I don’t have anything internally that monitors average spreads, but my expectation is that the Pay for Limits will bring spreads down as some of the algorithmic traders write their scripts to take advantage of the new Pay for Limits system. I expect that this will take several months for most of them to test and implement. We do know that we have seen a higher percentage of customer limit orders this week, but the real narrowing of the spreads will occur after the bigger traders have programmed to take advantage of this and tested their stuff.
  • #6,451
  • Feb 7, 2011 4:38pm Feb 7, 2011 4:38pm
Quoting Revone
Question for Justin:

Sometimes when I scale in limit orders in the MT4, I can't delete the pending orders. I get a message saying "Off Quotes" and an error sound.

Has this been reported as a bug?

Basically I have 3 limit orders that have been sitting on my charts for 2 weeks, price hasn't reached them yet, I'm sure I can pull a profit from them when it does reach but I shouldn't have to do that, I should be able to close the pending order, they aren't valid orders anymore, yet MT4 won't let me close them.
Revone,

Is this a Live account or a Demo account? I’m not aware of anything like this happening in a Live account, but if it were to happen, you should call the Trade Desk immediately and have them delete. Let me know and I will follow up.
  • #6,452
  • Feb 7, 2011 8:06pm Feb 7, 2011 8:06pm
Justin

The a/c balance now seems fine (MT4) after the last roller.

I've other questions and would like more clarification to clear my mine.

1. I wonder whether we can place trade with the MBT desktop / desktop pro while MT4 is also on side by side, or the MBT desktop / pro a/c is only for real time a/c monitoring and the MT4 for order execution?

2. About the commission charges, is it all the way charging at each side or recently changed?

Anyway, so after all its the bridging problem between MT4 and your system.

Regards,
Eric







Quoting jleblang
Buildcity,

Please take the time to review the FAQ and Release Notes pages of our website about MT4 and how it integrates with our system. I’ve documented this on our thread in the past, and also, we have discussed this in our Webinars and the You Tube videos of the platform.

If you open an MT4 account with us, we open for you what is called a Desktop account, but we turn off the ability to execute from our Desktop software and we enable the ability for you to trade via MT4’s interface. All of our accounting is handled at the Desktop level....
  • #6,453
  • Feb 8, 2011 1:55am Feb 8, 2011 1:55am
Quoting Cocoflanel
Do you keep stats of the average spread ?

Is it coming down already since 1 february ?
I'm watching closely spread, because I'm scalping. No change in spread for almost all pairs except those that are best for scalping in certain hours . EU, GU, UJ no change, but EG, EC, GC dramatic negative impact of introducing "paid limit program". EG from 0.8 - 0.9 (6 month ego) to 1.4 - 1.6 (this week), it was 1.2 last week. EC from steady 1.7 (6 month ego) to 3.1 - 3.5 (this week), it was 2.4 last week.

I knew that it was only a marketing hype and nothing can be given for free.

I wish there was MBT like 6 month ego, without those strange market moves to catch clients
I'm wondering why spread could rise so much on these 3 pairs after introducing "paid limits" ? It's similar to (Market Makers) MM action in 2009.

Regards
  • #6,454
  • Feb 8, 2011 2:49am Feb 8, 2011 2:49am
Quoting jleblang
In the end, and I say this over and over to everyone, please keep Desktop software logged into your same account and you will see all PnL and commissions correct in real-time with FIFO accounting. MT4 software itself may appear to get slightly off in terms of commissions and buying power over the course of the day, but not by much, and it should correct at rollover every time.
J, i have mt4 and trading on mt4, is it ok for me to open both mt4 and desktop pro at the same time using same trading id?
  • #6,455
  • Feb 8, 2011 4:56am Feb 8, 2011 4:56am
Quoting Traderlarry
"Hedging" is pure nonsense. Brokers offer it because they can earn more comissions/spread, that's the only reason.
+1. and double swap. when there is positive and negative swap, the negative one tends to be higher.
Measure trends automatically with zero lag
  • #6,456
  • Feb 8, 2011 8:47am Feb 8, 2011 8:47am
Quoting Traderlarry
"Hedging" is pure nonsense. Brokers offer it because they can earn more comissions/spread, that's the only reason.

+1 , at leats some people know why brokers offer this "facility"
  • #6,457
  • Feb 8, 2011 9:29am Feb 8, 2011 9:29am
Quoting Cocoflanel
+1 , at leats some people know why brokers offer this "facility"
Regarding your earlier post, per some data that I just saw, our EURUSD average spread over the last 8 hours (the European session) was 0.68 pips, which is down from almost 0.8 two weeks ago. GBPUSD over the same time was 1.48, down from 1.65 prior. As I said above, we don’t expect that this was going to suddenly change everything overnight. It’s not like all of our traders are going to suddenly change what they do and how they trade. However, we have seen a huge influx of people requesting our SDK/API kit to program to us, so as they complete that, I would expect more and more of the bigger players to start algo trading with Limit orders, which will do as we expected.
  • #6,458
  • Feb 8, 2011 9:32am Feb 8, 2011 9:32am
Quoting Buildcity


I've other questions and would like more clarification to clear my mine.

1. I wonder whether we can place trade with the MBT desktop / desktop pro while MT4 is also on side by side, or the MBT desktop / pro a/c is only for real time a/c monitoring and the MT4 for order execution?

2. About the commission charges, is it all the way charging at each side or recently changed?...


Buildcity,

Regarding your first question, here’s what I wrote in my last post to you:

If you open an MT4 account with us, we open for you what is called a Desktop account, but we turn off the ability to execute from our Desktop software and we enable the ability for you to trade via MT4’s interface. All of our accounting is handled at the Desktop level. It is true FIFO accounting and all of our on-line statements are based on that accounting. MT4 is just an interface that you can use (mostly so people can run pre-existing trades, although some people still like MT4 manual trading). The reason that we have to turn off the Desktop-level execution is because our system has 22 order types for FX, which give you much more control over your orders, but MT4 doesn’t understand those or how they work. MT4 basically just has Market, Stops, and Limits, plus a strange Trailing Stop that only works if you leave your MT4 client running.

 Regarding your second question, not sure what you mean. You pay (or get credited with Limits) a transaction fee each way. Every execution requires an event to a bank, the ECN, or a destination.
  • #6,459
  • Feb 8, 2011 9:38am Feb 8, 2011 9:38am
Quoting pavikogm
I'm watching closely spread, because I'm scalping. No change in spread for almost all pairs except those that are best for scalping in certain hours . EU, GU, UJ no change, but EG, EC, GC dramatic negative impact of introducing "paid limit program". EG from 0.8 - 0.9 (6 month ego) to 1.4 - 1.6 (this week), it was 1.2 last week. EC from steady 1.7 (6 month ego) to 3.1 - 3.5 (this week), it was 2.4 last week.

I knew that it was only a marketing hype and nothing can be given for free.

I wish there was MBT like 6 month ego, without those strange...
Pavikogm,

I’m looking at data right now from a third party.

 

  1. EURCHF average spreads over the last 8 hours was 1.68 pips.
  2. EURGBP was 0.89 pips.

You can also follow this on the third tab of the Pricing page of our site.

Even though it doesn’t average multiple hours, you can pull up the EURGBP, for example, over the last 24 hours and it’s clearly under 1 pip during the European session and the only high spike is in the afternoons here in the US (when Europe is asleep).

  • #6,460
  • Feb 8, 2011 10:37am Feb 8, 2011 10:37am
Justin congratulation on your new policy to pay trader who trade with limit orders.

My commission expenses are way down.

MBT continues to take steps to the right direction for the benefit of the traders.
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