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Phantom 6 System

  • #821
  • Feb 6, 2011 3:00pm Feb 6, 2011 3:00pm
Quoting laharjaya
thanks fraze for dropbox info

just make it clear

can we trade with capital under usd3K
Sure you can,but there are no guarantees that you will always win. Some folks on this thread I believe have reported trading with only $500 and doing well.

If you trade with a small balance, it is always best to use a broker like IBFX that offers a true mini account where 1 pip is just 1 cent and 2 decimal place lot sizing.

Glad you like dropbox. I think it is great.
Frazer
  • #822
  • Feb 6, 2011 3:52pm Feb 6, 2011 3:52pm
Quoting mbkennel
Really, the margin level is pretty much correlated 100% with the number of open trades.

What we need is a simple maximum-open-trades limit.

This means, that if you are about to add a new trade, and you're at or above the limit, you have to cut open trades first. Which ones? Obviously the symbol must be different from the one you're about to add. Other than that, just take the one which has the smallest absolute value of open OrderProfit(), regardless of win or loss.
Here is an answer I received from a broker when I asked about margin calls.

Quote
A margin stop out is an automatic closure of a position at the current market rate. Margin stop out occurs when the margin requirement has been exceeded and the account balance is no longer sufficient to sustain all the open positions. Margin call is reached at approximately 150% where that specific position/s will turn red and a margin stop out will occur at 100% where it protects the client from having a negative balance or falling into debt

That means it is a combination of number of trades and whether and how much they are winning or losing. If all your trades are winners you could have an infinite number of trades and still have a very high margin level. On the other hand if they are all losers you could be at 100% with relatively few open trades. To me it does not make sense to close winning trades. Closing losers will always help margin level.

When I asked for more detail about the closing process I received this.

Quote
Thank you for your detailed email. Please note that there is a difference between a margin call and a margin stop out. I don’t want to confuse the two when further explaining.
A margin call will be given when any position reaches a margin level of 150% the position will turn red.
A margin stop out will close the most effected position/s (biggest losers first) at 100% automatically to sustain the rest of the open positions. Your margin will normally rise above 100% after closing the biggest losers which will enable you to trade again.

Note that this broker uses 2 terms to describe what we traders refer to as a Margin CALL. We don't consider the turning red as a margin call, it is just a warning. What he calls a Margin Stop Out is what we think of as a margin call.
Frazer
  • #823
  • Feb 6, 2011 4:38pm Feb 6, 2011 4:38pm
Quoting achab
Hello,

and good evening.
After some tests (actually I am running over 60) I have chosen Alpari-UK because it is the only that allows a leverage 500:1, is under GB law and doesn't limit the leverage with large real accounts.

I decided to compare the results (P/L, Lowest margin used, etc.) about Phantom6_01a, Phantom6_01x, Phantom6_01xR (3rd version), Phantom_AddSix_02a, Ph_AddSix_02ax (without features) and Ph_AddSix_02ax using the PipStep set to 10, UseTradingHours off and CutLoserMultiplier set to 1,5.

Other parameters are:
Currency: EUR
Initial...
Achab,

That should be interesting. Question though, MMTU 6.0 at 500:1 on only a 10 k acct. That would seem a bit extreme in lot size. Would you trade it live with those settings? Either way it will be interesting to monitor your results. Thank you.
  • #824
  • Feb 6, 2011 5:57pm Feb 6, 2011 5:57pm
Hi, I'm rewriting my own version of the Phantom6 to make it more generic.

In particular, I'd like to have various sets of 6 balanced pairs "pre-selected", e.g. combination 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.

So can people post their 6-pair combinations that they've used (or seen) as long as they aren't repetitive with previously posted ones:

In my new version the # of buys does not need to equal the # of sells (as you can see this is totally arbitrary choice as to how banks decided to quote pairs).

For reference, the current one is:

buy GBPUSD
buy USDCHF
buy EURJPY
sell GBPCHF
sell CHFJPY
sell EURCHF
  • #825
  • Feb 6, 2011 6:02pm Feb 6, 2011 6:02pm
Quoting roundrock
For a moment lets forget about how its done today. Just think what is needed if i am trading within some hours

1. my phantoms calculations must be started just 1 hour (configurable) ahead of my FIRST trade. That means my trading start hour is 8 and check munite is 15. my possible first trade would be at 8:15, so phantom calculation must start at 7:15. So pahntoms must be reset at 7:15

2. once trading starts, let it run

3. at trading finish time, check if any open trades. If no, close the EA and go to sleep mode. If yes, give an option to user...
Roundrock,

If you are still out there I would be interested in something like this.

1. <user input> Start phantoms at ** gmt. (ex. 1 hour before eu open)
2. <user input> Start live trades at ** gmt. (ex. start at eu open)
3. <user input> at ** gmt close basket if profit = **% (ex. at ny close close basket if profit = .3%)
4. If user input profit percent not reached continue to run EA as normal.
5. If profit percent is hit, sleep ea until time specified in line 1.
6. If basket continues to run (line 4) reset phantoms at time specified in line 1.

All the other options like pip step, cut loser, x factor could be user designed as true/false with the appropriate inputs. Trading hours as is now wouldnt be needed since this would specify the times ea can trade.

I think this is pretty close to the idea you outlined in the post. I dont know enough coding to do this myself and I would only ask you to code if you were interested. Not sure which phantom you would code like this but whatever one, I know enough to cut and paste the needed changes into other EA's.
  • #826
  • Feb 6, 2011 6:21pm Feb 6, 2011 6:21pm
Quoting mbkennel
Hi, I'm rewriting my own version of the Phantom6 to make it more generic.

In particular, I'd like to have various sets of 6 balanced pairs "pre-selected", e.g. combination 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.

So can people post their 6-pair combinations that they've used (or seen) as long as they aren't repetitive with previously posted ones:

In my new version the # of buys does not need to equal the # of sells (as you can see this is totally arbitrary choice as to how banks decided to quote pairs).

For reference, the current one is:

buy GBPUSD
buy...
MB, I use the folowing 6 pair sets(3)

set 1 (no YEN,CHF)
BUYS: GBPUSD/EURCAD/EURGBP
SELLS: EURUSD/EURAUD/AUDCAD

set 2 (no AUD,GBP)
BUYS: EURCHF/CHFJPY/USDJPY
SELLS: EURJPY/USDCAD/CADJPY

set 3 (no EUR,CAD)
BUYS: AUDUSD/GBPAUD/NZDJPY
SELLS: GBPUSD/NZDUSD/USDJPY

Set 1 has always been my most profitable on test. I have used 2 and 3 but find them not as profitable. But that may only be a matter of timing. Remember to consider spread cost when designing a basket (dont use weird ones like gbp/nzd)
  • #827
  • Feb 6, 2011 7:20pm Feb 6, 2011 7:20pm
Quoting thorn
MB, I use the folowing 6 pair sets(3)

set 1 (no YEN,CHF)
BUYS: GBPUSD/EURCAD/EURGBP
SELLS: EURUSD/EURAUD/AUDCAD

set 2 (no AUD,GBP)
BUYS: EURCHF/CHFJPY/USDJPY
SELLS: EURJPY/USDCAD/CADJPY

set 3 (no EUR,CAD)
BUYS: AUDUSD/GBPAUD/NZDJPY
SELLS: GBPUSD/NZDUSD/USDJPY

Set 1 has always been my most profitable on test. I have used 2 and 3 but find them not as profitable. But that may only be a matter of timing. Remember to consider spread cost when designing a basket (dont use weird ones like gbp/nzd)
Thanks a bunch!

I wonder if the profitability difference is due to unbalanced lotsize. If you remember, I posted about normalizing the lot sizes depending on the first currency of a pair. 1 lot of GBPxxx is more money than 1 lot of NZDxxx.

Notice that set 1 has 1 GBP 5 EUR and 1 AUD. Relative to dollars that's more money per trade than sets 2 and 3 which have more USD and NZD
  • #828
  • Feb 6, 2011 9:26pm Feb 6, 2011 9:26pm
Quoting thorn
Hey JCS, I understand. Seeing your balance drop has a negative effect on your brain. LOL.
Quoting mbkennel
Least absolute value of open profit, regardless of win or loss.
So with +100, -250, +50, -35 in open profits, we would choose -35.
Thanks guys, two excellent posts leaving me with much to think about
  • #829
  • Feb 6, 2011 9:34pm Feb 6, 2011 9:34pm
Quoting achab
Hello,

and good evening.
After some tests (actually I am running over 60) I have chosen Alpari-UK because it is the only that allows a leverage 500:1, is under GB law and doesn't limit the leverage with large real accounts.

I decided to compare the results (P/L, Lowest margin used, etc.) about Phantom6_01a, Phantom6_01x, Phantom6_01xR (3rd version), Phantom_AddSix_02a, Ph_AddSix_02ax (without features) and Ph_AddSix_02ax using the PipStep set to 10, UseTradingHours off and CutLoserMultiplier set to 1,5.

Other parameters are:
Currency: EUR
Initial...



THANKS VERY MUCH FOR YOUR EFFORT HERE.
This is exactly what is needed in estimating which version is "right" for the individual trader.

Mike
  • #830
  • Feb 6, 2011 9:40pm Feb 6, 2011 9:40pm
I would truly appreciate a recommendation for a broker who allows US traders and micro lots with STP pricing to use on this BOT.
Please advise....


Thanks
  • #831
  • Feb 6, 2011 9:58pm Feb 6, 2011 9:58pm
Quoting thorn
Ok, Im going to post this again, same as last Sunday. You guys are getting wrapped up in the account balance. It does not matter what the account balance is, only the account equity. Now look at your open phantom trades, close a winning trade and look at your equity, now close a losing trade and look at your equity. Tell me what you see?

Or look at it this way, if trader A has 0.00 account balance and 500.00 in open trade profit, and trader B has 500.00 account balance and - 500.00 in open trade loss, whos account would you want to have?

Ok...

Completely agree with your statement..
I have been testing almost all version of ea posted in this thread and my observation is that ea perform well first few days of a week and when market turn back ea got stuck in the middle. When ea faces 4-5 cut lossers it take avg 2-3 day to recover and in that period it cut more cut lossssers and thus result in more dd.
So to come out with thiss issue i am testing new strategy. I have posted my strategy last few posts before but nobody replied.
Its is oberved that when ea cut losser, at that time ea trades with floating profit. So the idea is to book that floating profit and reopen only positive trades from existing basket. if it continue to follow this strategy ea will take less time for recovery and dd will be under control.
Right now i am coding new ea with following strategy but facing some problem becuase of my coding limitations...Ea trade with 6 pairs same as phantom
1. EA stores starting price as opening price and open trades only when individual pair gains pips eaqual to PP target.
2. Clossing any lossing pair in between and book floating profit as said above and reopens only winning pairs.
3. Clossing basket after hitting PP
4. After clossing basket it immediately reopens only winning pairs from previous basket and add pairs according to criteria mention in 1st step.

I am trying to code this but unable to finish coding. But I think any experience coder can code this one better than me.
  • #832
  • Edited 10:08pm Feb 6, 2011 10:03pm | Edited 10:08pm
Quoting mbkennel
Thanks a bunch!

I wonder if the profitability difference is due to unbalanced lotsize. If you remember, I posted about normalizing the lot sizes depending on the first currency of a pair. 1 lot of GBPxxx is more money than 1 lot of NZDxxx.

Notice that set 1 has 1 GBP 5 EUR and 1 AUD. Relative to dollars that's more money per trade than sets 2 and 3 which have more USD and NZD
Im only testing 3k accounts so all my trades are .01(10 cent). But your right there is difference in the value of each pip move, maybe if I ever trade higher lots that would be a consideration.

Edit: To be fair I have not really tested set 2 and 3 that much to get a true feel. Did very well with set 1 so Ive kinda stuck to it.
  • #833
  • Feb 6, 2011 10:17pm Feb 6, 2011 10:17pm
Quoting mbkennel
Hi, I'm rewriting my own version of the Phantom6 to make it more generic.

In particular, I'd like to have various sets of 6 balanced pairs "pre-selected", e.g. combination 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.

So can people post their 6-pair combinations that they've used (or seen) as long as they aren't repetitive with previously posted ones:

In my new version the # of buys does not need to equal the # of sells (as you can see this is totally arbitrary choice as to how banks decided to quote pairs).

For reference, the current one is:

buy GBPUSD
buy...
Any reason you want so many different sets of pairs? Is there something you will look at to decide which one to use? I had an idea one time to match up my set according to how each buy and sell were trending at the time and giving each a value, then deciding to trade the "trendiest" set. Never got around to it as you would probably have to switch them out alot as the trends changed. But Im a trend trader at heart so thats just my thinking.
  • #834
  • Feb 6, 2011 10:49pm Feb 6, 2011 10:49pm
Quoting thorn
Any reason you want so many different sets of pairs?
Just to make it easy to change with a parameter.

Quote
Is there something you will look at to decide which one to use? I had an idea one time to match up my set according to how each buy and sell were trending at the time and giving each a value, then deciding to trade the "trendiest" set. Never got around to it as you would probably have to switch them out alot as the trends changed. But Im a trend trader at heart so thats just my thinking.
No, the set would be fixed. The idea would be to run multiple sets simultaneously (in different accounts) for diversification.

Note that for any set, there is the opposite, where all buys become sells and vice versa.

I wonder if we run a 'normal' and 'mirror' set in separate accounts that the results might be anti-correlated somewhat so that if one is in big drawdown, the other would be pumping out profitable baskets at the same time.

I'm implementing these ideas now.
  • #835
  • Edited 11:36pm Feb 6, 2011 11:25pm | Edited 11:36pm
Quoting mbkennel
I wonder if we run a 'normal' and 'mirror' set in separate accounts that the results might be anti-correlated somewhat so that if one is in big drawdown, the other would be pumping out profitable baskets at the same time.

I'm implementing these ideas now.
I have run a very similar senario to this
Because I can't code and hence write a ' mirror' ea I was using a reverse trade copier to mirror the normal trades in a second account with an indipendant trade manager ea to sort out the PP etc, all of which was proving to be very clumsy to configure

The obvious problem with this set up was ( or seemed to be as I recall ) that after the mirror account closed a profitable basket it simply went on to copy further trades from the unclosed normal basket instead of starting its own new basket and hence I had to switch it off after a close and wait for the normal basket to close before switching it back on again ( hope that makes sense, I am thinking it probably does not unless you could see what I am trying to describe for yourself ) ... anyways

Up to the time when I got so frustrated with the limitations of having to do it this way and gave up I can say that almost without fail the ' mirror ' account when starting with a new normal basket hit PP and booked profit seemingly very easily

I am sure there is a lot of promise in what you are doing and hope you continue to share the results, and of course your new ' mirror ' ea ... hint
  • #836
  • Feb 6, 2011 11:25pm Feb 6, 2011 11:25pm
Oh yeah, MB, your code is HOT, looking forward to it.

mine:

long:
gbpusd, usdchf, eurjpy
short:
eurusd, usdjpy, gbpchf

i feel mine is more volatile than yours, is it a good thing or a bad thing?

Quoting mbkennel
For reference, the current one is:

buy GBPUSD
buy USDCHF
buy EURJPY
sell GBPCHF
sell CHFJPY
sell EURCHF
  • #837
  • Feb 6, 2011 11:49pm Feb 6, 2011 11:49pm
Quoting mbkennel
Note that for any set, there is the opposite, where all buys become sells and vice versa.
I was also thinking on the same lines and here is the alteration I did on 2a. It seems to be working ok. My idea is to start this EA with an offset of 30 min from the main EA. Only wish we could run both EAs on the same platform and see how it works out.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Phantom_AddSix_02a-mirror.mq4   49 KB | 336 downloads
"Put all your efforts in becoming effortless"
  • #838
  • Feb 6, 2011 11:55pm Feb 6, 2011 11:55pm
Quoting IamTHAT
I was also thinking on the same lines and here is the alteration I did on 2a. It seems to be working ok. My idea is to start this EA with an offset of 30 min from the main EA. Only wish we could run both EAs on the same platform and see how it works out.
I am going to enjoy playing with this, thanks
Why the 30 minute offset ?
  • #839
  • Feb 7, 2011 12:02am Feb 7, 2011 12:02am
Quoting jcs
I have run a very similar senario to this
Because I can't code and hence write a ' mirror' ea I was using a reverse trade copier to mirror the normal trades in a second account with an indipendant trade manager ea to sort out the PP etc, all of which was proving to be very clumsy to configure

The obvious problem with this set up was ( or seemed to be as I recall ) that after the mirror account closed a profitable basket it simply went on to copy further trades from the unclosed normal basket instead of starting its own new basket and hence I had...
Running things in the "mirror" (as above) is not what I had in mind. If you reverse buy/sell pairs it will not mirror the exact trades, because basket closes and opens will happen at different times. Much of the time won't be particularly correlated or anticorrelated because of this.

Hope: if there is a sharp trend which is causing big DD in one of the accounts, we may be able to make up for this in the other as one hopes it will be banking a number of baskets dominated by that currency pair.

This will be statistical (i.e. nowhere near perfect) anticorrelation, but any amount helps.


Side note: I think there isn't any realistic way for people to be successful in automated trading unless (a) they learn how to program themselves, and reasonably well, or, (b) they can pay a programmer over and over. Instead of going for hacks, just start to learn programming (MT4 is not a good environment to start).
  • #840
  • Feb 7, 2011 12:25am Feb 7, 2011 12:25am
[quote=mbkennel;4376642]

Running things in the "mirror" (as above) is not what I had in mind. If you reverse buy/sell pairs it will not mirror the exact trades, because basket closes and opens will happen at different times. Much of the time won't be particularly correlated or anticorrelated because of this.

Probably what I was experiencing, but could not describe

Side note: I think there isn't any realistic way for people to be successful in automated trading unless (a) they learn how to program themselves, and reasonably well, or, (b) they can pay a programmer over and over. Instead of going for hacks, just start to learn programming (MT4 is not a good environment to start)

I am sure you are correct
Alas my life is nearer the end than the beginning, so not much chance of me getting to grips with programming now, hence I am somewhat totally dependant upon the generousity of others in this respect
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