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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #6,401
  • Feb 2, 2011 10:50am Feb 2, 2011 10:50am
Quoting Ricx
New Commission Rocks!

Thank you very much MBT, sometimes i hit breakeven trades, and sometimes tries to getout bad entry at breakeven, tight spread is helping me very much. and get much cheaper commission is the real help too. wow i love it soo much
  • #6,402
  • Feb 2, 2011 1:09pm Feb 2, 2011 1:09pm
Anyone know how to setup Ninjatrader for the new Paid for limit commissions?
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #6,403
  • Feb 2, 2011 3:06pm Feb 2, 2011 3:06pm
Quoting Beljevina
Good discussion. But take this to be the example. If I've built up 12 lots long in EURUSD from say 1.3 and am $25K profit at 1.35, why should I have to dump everything, to go in for 1 lot short of say 30 pips, especially if there's a chance - reasonable or otherwise - of another 200 pips from those 12 lots? The non-retailer community (in the US) can do it, including your broker if they happen to be a market maker (ie., CitiFX, CMC, not to mention MS, JPM, etc.) yet the retailer is prevent from doing so!
Still incorrect. You are long 12 lots at 1.3000. It's at 1.3500. No one is stopping you from selling 1 lot and then buying it back 30 pips lower. If the EURUSD then runs up 200 pips as you said and you close it out, you end up with exactly what you said.

The problem is this. What you are not separating is trading from ACCOUNTING. Accounting doesn't matter.

Let's take a simple EURUSD example with two entries and two exits, 1 lot each.

Long at 1.3000
Long at 1.3100
Sell at 1.3200
Sell at 1.3300

It does not matter what order you do these in, your net value of your account will be identical.

If you bought at 1.3000, bought again when it moved up to 1.3100, sold 1 at 1.3200, and sold the final at 1.3300, you made 400 pips on 1 lot, period.

If you bought at 1.3100 first, then it dropped to 1.3000 and you bought again, then it ran up to 1.3300 (you didn't sell at 1.3200) and you sold one, then it dropped back down to 1.3200 and you sold the last, you still made the same.

If you bought 1 at 1.3000, sold 1 at 1.3200, bought one at 1.3100, and sold one at 1.3300, that's the same too.

Either way, you end up with the exact same in your account with ONE LITTLE EXCEPTION. If you hedged along the way, you got charged swaps both ways, so you have a little less.

Now, in the stock world, there is a reason to do this. It's called "shorting against the box." Basically, if you buy a stock in January and it goes way up and you want to sell it in November, but you don't want to lock in the gain and have to pay taxes in the current year, you get permission to carry the long and the short at the same time. It's a hedge. That way, you don't lock in the gain. Then in January, you can either match the two off and put off paying taxes until April 15 of the FOLLOWING year, or you can buy back the short and maintain the long.

So in the case of stocks, there is a reason to do it under a certain set of circumstances, because taxes come into play, but it doesn't change the accounting or the trade prices and values beyond that. In FX, this example would also be true, but isn't why most people want to "hedge." Most people aren't holding positions that long.

The reality is that except for that case above, anyone that wants to hedge is trying to convince themselves that it is changing their PnL and it just isn't.
  • #6,404
  • Feb 2, 2011 4:13pm Feb 2, 2011 4:13pm
Quoting IndyTrader
Still incorrect. You are long 12 lots at 1.3000. It's at 1.3500. No one is stopping you from selling 1 lot and then buying it back 30 pips lower. If the EURUSD then runs up 200 pips as you said and you close it out, you end up with exactly what you said.

The problem is this. What you are not separating is trading from ACCOUNTING. Accounting doesn't matter.

Let's take a simple EURUSD example with two entries and two exits, 1 lot each.

Long at 1.3000
Long at 1.3100
Sell at 1.3200
Sell at 1.3300

It does not matter what order you do these in,...
Spot on.
  • #6,405
  • Feb 3, 2011 2:41am Feb 3, 2011 2:41am
how come brokers don't like scalpers?
  • #6,406
  • Feb 3, 2011 8:45am Feb 3, 2011 8:45am
Quoting 1ken89
how come brokers don't like scalpers?
I scalp a lot and I would say MB loves me.
  • #6,407
  • Feb 3, 2011 11:53am Feb 3, 2011 11:53am
@Justin: If I have 1.5 lot of EURUSD and I am in the money, I want to start partially closing my positions, say 0.5 lots at 12, another 0.5 at 20 etc.

Will I get paid for each partial closure? Assuming limit orders of course.
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
  • #6,408
  • Feb 3, 2011 2:25pm Feb 3, 2011 2:25pm
Quoting Traderji
@Justin: If I have 1.5 lot of EURUSD and I am in the money, I want to start partially closing my positions, say 0.5 lots at 12, another 0.5 at 20 etc.

Will I get paid for each partial closure? Assuming limit orders of course.

Yes, partial or not doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is whether you posted a non-marketable limit order. Any piece or total of that order that gets filled, you get paid.
  • #6,409
  • Feb 3, 2011 2:41pm Feb 3, 2011 2:41pm
Quoting jleblang
Goldsurfer,

The most commonly requested change that we get regarding our MT4 environment is that it is in EST and that creates issues with both the Daily charts (there are 6 daily bars per week, with Sunday and Friday being less than 24 hours of data, whereas other brokers that use GMT + 2 give the market in exactly 5 equal daily bars, and this matters to some EAs) and the intraday bars for certain types of Pivots. ...
Justin,

How does the upcoming server GMT change affect the historical data we already have in Metatrader? For example, during the first week the GMT change is implemented, there will not be a Sunday bar, but will a Sunday bar still exist for all previous weeks? Very similar question, how is the historical data from your servers handled if I clear my history and reopen the chart, will the Sunday bar still exist or are you changing the time on all historical data as well? Thanks.
  • #6,410
  • Feb 3, 2011 6:28pm Feb 3, 2011 6:28pm
Quoting 1ken89
how come brokers don't like scalpers?
If you are a market maker style broker, if it is a volitile period in the markets or if there are too many orders coming through, the broker must still take the other side of the trade. They may need some time to ensure that they can pass off the risk to a liquidity provider or keep the trade in-house. Some ways of dealing with the lack of liquidity are requotes, and disconnects. Slippage also, but even STP/ECN brokers have this.
Quoting ybfjax
Is there any plans to open an Australia division or other non-USA division?
+1
Measure trends automatically with zero lag
  • #6,411
  • Feb 4, 2011 9:59am Feb 4, 2011 9:59am
I've decided to close my MB Trading account after 3 years.

Two events have brought me to this decision:

1. Last Sunday I was unable to place any trades until about 2 hours after the normal opening of the FX markets. They told me it was a lack of liquidity.

2. All my orders were rejected up to and including 20 mins after NFP.

For an ECN that's just not good enough.
It really is time this fx business is cleaned up and legislated for.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,412
  • Feb 4, 2011 10:22am Feb 4, 2011 10:22am
What was the reason for the order rejections?
  • #6,413
  • Feb 4, 2011 10:37am Feb 4, 2011 10:37am
MBT told me they never received the trades and that it was an NT7 issue but you can clearly see in the NT7 logs that the orders were sent OK but rejected (without reason) by MBT.

They also said it must have been to do with liquidity or volatility or spreads or I was wearing the wrong sort of shirt. In fact anything they could think of. I understand that volatility is high during a news event but 20 minutes later ? Really ? Are they a true ECN or not ?

I'm really sad about this and I've had a good relationship with them but it seems to me the game has changed somewhat over the past few months. Its interesting to see I'm not the only one that thinks that and other brokers appear to be doing strange stuff recently.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,414
  • Feb 4, 2011 10:43am Feb 4, 2011 10:43am
Dr. Who: i guess i know the reason for the rejections, its probably because - like during every major news release - the quoteservers are hopelessly lagged (this time it lasted about 5 minutes after nfp). JLB does not want to comment on this issue.

When you send a market-order with the SDK (and the navigator is an SDK project) - you have to send an indicative "near" marketprice with it - and when you send a price thats too far away, the order gets rejected. When the quotes are lagged and you send a price 20 pips away from the price on the execution-server, it gets rejected. This behaviour is generally what you want, since you dont want a fill 20 pips away from the price you saw on your screen. Of course, the underlying issue of lagged quotes needs to be fixed to prevent that from happening at all. If you watch a non-lagged datafeed and MB-charts during nfp, it becomes immediately obvious what the issue is.

Not sure if that is exactly what happened to you, but i know it happened to me during testing in fast mkt conditions of an sdk project.
  • #6,415
  • Feb 4, 2011 10:52am Feb 4, 2011 10:52am
Quoting shrike
Dr. Who: i guess i know the reason for the rejections, its probably because - like during every major news release - the quoteservers are hopelessly lagged (this time it lasted about 5 minutes after nfp)....
Thanks for the explanation and while thats probably true for those trades I tried at or around NFP is that true of those 20 minutes later ? Is there still that amount of volatility about ?

Is there a way around if one wants to trade at those times ? Particularly with a OCO SL straddle ?
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,416
  • Feb 4, 2011 10:57am Feb 4, 2011 10:57am
I dont know. 20 minutes after nfp it seemed fine from my POV. The only way to find out what exactly happened is that someone from MB investigates a proper audit trail of your order messages during this time. The answers you got from support appear to be inconclusive, one time is Ninjatrader and then its because of volatility/liquidity/spreads.

I would contact support again and ask that someone explains to you why exactly you got rejected order messages showing up in navigator.
  • #6,417
  • Feb 4, 2011 11:04am Feb 4, 2011 11:04am
Quoting shrike
I dont know. 20 minutes after nfp it seemed fine from my POV. The only way to find out what exactly happened is that someone from MB investigates a proper audit trail of your order messages during this time. The answers you got from support appear to be inconclusive, one time is Ninjatrader and then its because of volatility/liquidity/spreads.
Well, here is the log info from NT7 log: 04/02/2011 13:30:09|0|32|MB Trading, Unable to process last request: affected Order: Buy 100000 Limit @ 1.614


As you can see it just says 'unable to process' which could mean a whole load of things.
He was looking for the card so high and wild hed never need to deal another
  • #6,418
  • Feb 4, 2011 11:09am Feb 4, 2011 11:09am
You need to look at what navigator says happened, i doubt MB support will deal with Ninja.
  • #6,419
  • Feb 4, 2011 11:12am Feb 4, 2011 11:12am
Justin,



Do you keep stats of the average spread ?

Is it coming down already since 1 february ?
  • #6,420
  • Feb 4, 2011 12:56pm Feb 4, 2011 12:56pm
Quoting dr_who
I've decided to close my MB Trading account after 3 years.

Two events have brought me to this decision:

1. Last Sunday I was unable to place any trades until about 2 hours after the normal opening of the FX markets. They told me it was a lack of liquidity.

2. All my orders were rejected up to and including 20 mins after NFP.

For an ECN that's just not good enough.
It really is time this fx business is cleaned up and legislated for.

Can anyone else comment if something like this has happened to them? Not being able to trade the NFP is a major issue.
We're all stories in the end. Just try to make it a good one.
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