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5Min Intraday System

  • #7,301
  • Dec 21, 2010 7:48am Dec 21, 2010 7:48am
Hey all:
Im trying to know this strategy better by trading it via backtest. Untill few time ago, I still thought the entrance was before the bounce on any significant level was formed, but by reading recent posts/ snapshots I realiced that wasnt the way to go. You have to wait untill you have some evidence that the bounce is forming, right?
Well then, would that trade be a good entrance, even though it fails?
*Support found on previous ressistance
*Little triangle formation, and break of that triangle
Thankyou all!
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  • #7,302
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:23am Dec 21, 2010 10:23am
A setup on 5min EUR$ I watched today. This is once again what a chart looks like in real time without the benefit of hind sight.

See my comments on the chart.
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Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,303
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:27am Dec 21, 2010 10:27am
This is what I was looking/waiting for in this setup
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Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,304
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:29am Dec 21, 2010 10:29am
And then the price moved into the war zone (area between 10 and 21MA). Now we play the waiting game. Patience and discipline are needed.
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Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,305
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:32am Dec 21, 2010 10:32am
And still I waited - the next candle after the price moved into the war zone. Still waiting!!!!
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Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,306
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:34am Dec 21, 2010 10:34am
Then I saw the H/L entry signal. There wasn't really a nice setup candle with a tail upwards. But let us if it a try.

See how I manage my trade - SL and TP
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Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,307
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:40am Dec 21, 2010 10:40am
And the outcome of the trade = -10pips

Just remember it is December and one can expect movements like this. This is just another example to show you people how difficult it is to trade real charts - always easier to "trade the charts with hind sight"

Luckily I got my loss back and made small profit using Vantage's system a few minutes later.
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Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,308
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:42am Dec 21, 2010 10:42am
Thanks for the continuous charts and posting.

I have watched this thread for years and have learned a great deal.

In respect to the EMA's do you consider the 21 or the 50 as the overall war zone?

I know the price plays the 21 ema a lot, but the 50 ema seems to be the tougher area to break.

I am still working on my progress on this style of trading, so please continue to post and share your charts.

Thanks a lot.
TheCableGuy
  • #7,309
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:50am Dec 21, 2010 10:50am
Hi A

My comments on your post:

Im trying to know this strategy better by trading it via backtest. Untill few time ago, I still thought the entrance was before the bounce on any significant level was formed

No, it must be significant e.g. tested a few times or the previous sessions High or Low

, but by reading recent posts/ snapshots I realiced that wasnt the way to go.

Yes

You have to wait untill you have some evidence that the bounce is forming, right?

Yes but I don't really have definite rules to define it.

Well then, would that trade be a good entrance, even though it fails?

Yes, it is all about probability. Nothing is for sure in forex trading and losers are part of the game. See my previous range of posts/charts. It is all about how you manage your trade and risk/reward ratio

*Support found on previous ressistance
*Little triangle formation, and break of that triangle

Yes, that is some of the price action I am looking for.

On that chart of yours, look at the number of pullback already in that move - warning signals!!!

Enjoy the trading
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,310
  • Dec 21, 2010 10:57am Dec 21, 2010 10:57am
Quoting TheCableGuy
Thanks for the continuous charts and posting.

I have watched this thread for years and have learned a great deal.

In respect to the EMA's do you consider the 21 or the 50 as the overall war zone?

I know the price plays the 21 ema a lot, but the 50 ema seems to be the tougher area to break.

I am still working on my progress on this style of trading, so please continue to post and share your charts.

Thanks a lot.
Hi Cableguy

Only a pleasure.

It is all about the "speed" of the market as explained by Phillip in this thread:

1. If the price is moving fast, it usually bounce off the 10MA and it doesn't even retrace into the war zone. VERY difficult to trade.

2. With the medium speed, the price tends to pull into the war zone and bounce off the 21MA. The ideal setup for me to trade.

3. Then the market tend to slow down and price will contiue through the war zone and breaks the 21MA, It will move towards the 50MA and bounce off it. It is also tradeable but very risky as price tends to move on through the 50MA.

Always try to look to the left on your chart to identify previous turning pionts (signs of previous support and resistance) and don't forget to look at the higher time frame e.g.15min and 1h charts.

Enjoy it.
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,311
  • Dec 21, 2010 11:00am Dec 21, 2010 11:00am
I really could not see my entries that great today, I am very hesitant because of the holiday week.

I took 2 small trades and got juked out fast after my entries, clearing only 2 pips on each short.

Normally I take my entries a bit closer to the MA's based on my 1min chart.

Let's see if it breaks below that lower trend line here soon.

I will short once again once PA shows shorts are playing.
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TheCableGuy
  • #7,312
  • Dec 21, 2010 11:18am Dec 21, 2010 11:18am
Okay, I seen the 21 ema play better this time, I watched it hit the war line and I entered the top of the 5min bar, as I seen a lower high on my 1min chart.

Price moved my way a few pips, then tested my entry, if it would have broken my top 5min bar (entry area) I would have exited with about 3 pips loss.

I closed my trade with 9 pips after spread.

That was more like it.....

Thanks Golfer for the response, I understand I need to watch the PA strength, and the previous stall areas, and I have much work to do to learn how to be successful with this style.

Cheers.
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TheCableGuy
  • #7,313
  • Dec 21, 2010 12:03pm Dec 21, 2010 12:03pm
Could not resist this scalp, as I wait for another 5 minute setup on the MA's.

The low at 3110 was holding nicely on the bottom, let's see if it can hold this move back down here at the new hour bar.

+5 pips scalp.

Note: I will stay on topic and not post these opposing setups.
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TheCableGuy
  • #7,314
  • Dec 21, 2010 3:45pm Dec 21, 2010 3:45pm
The way Golfer uses S/R lines for this trading system makes the whole game so perfect. Finding entries in this system is easy, but if you do not know when to get off or take profit, your trading is not that effective at all.

By the way, I think drawing trend lines should also contribute to the system. Sometimes, diagonal lines can give you earlier alerts for SL or TP.
A successful trading depends on knowing what to analyze.
  • #7,315
  • Dec 21, 2010 6:54pm Dec 21, 2010 6:54pm
After setting up this system using alot of info on the first page I have finished approx 130 trades with 70 pip profit ( backtesting), it peaked at 153 pips so it was tough watching the profit drop and drop and drop.
I used the methods explained in the first page,i.e sma angle, macd, and adx, waiting for it pullback, but not pulling the trigger until the macd has smoothly reversed and other indicators were in the correct circumstances.

One main problem I noticed was I was often one period too late, as Ive read time and time again ive come to realise that indicators don't give you anything new, they just display to you the price action in another format really.
In the mean time I kept reading this thread and noticed both the posters and the system evolved.
Im going to go for the Golfer approach now and begin to backtest mainly using price action. Paying attention to certain candles, checking the 15min and 1 hour for trend, and taking note of S/R to the left(this is the bit i really want to practice).
Im going to drop adx and macd, im going to hold onto sma angle just for now so I can get an understanding of how trends behave in relation to this angle indicator.
Im starting to think that if you don't understand the basics of naked price action first, you shouldn't be trading.
As I said in my first post , im just doing all this so i can learn to trade, but who knows , it would be great if someday I actually begun to use this system for profit.
  • #7,316
  • Dec 21, 2010 9:14pm Dec 21, 2010 9:14pm
First of all, thankyou.

Second, and I must stress I say this respectfully, just for a better learning, I cuote some things you said:

ME: You have to wait untill you have some evidence that the bounce is forming, right?
YOU: Yes but I don't really have definite rules to define it.

And I read in the image you attached in a recent post:

Quoting Golfer
Entry after the low of previous candle was broken
My question then, is, should I rely on previos candle low's breaking?, just as a guide (I know I must learn to consider another things) but is that a good start?
Again, completely respectfull, I just think entrance moment is way too important and I was going to start entering this way so Id like to know if thats good....
  • #7,317
  • Dec 22, 2010 2:28am Dec 22, 2010 2:28am
Quoting adecleir
After setting up this system using alot of info on the first page I have finished approx 130 trades with 70 pip profit ( backtesting), it peaked at 153 pips so it was tough watching the profit drop and drop and drop.
I used the methods explained in the first page,i.e sma angle, macd, and adx, waiting for it pullback, but not pulling the trigger until the macd has smoothly reversed and other indicators were in the correct circumstances.

One main problem I noticed was I was often one period too late, as Ive read time and time again ive come to realise...
Yea, no need to use MACD to tell you when to enter. Just watch the war zone and SMA 50 angle. That is all. Confirming 15M or 1H for a trend is also good idea. I actually rely on this more than SMA.

S/R lines are so important on any trading method really. You can avoid a risky entry sometimes by checking significant S/R lines.
A successful trading depends on knowing what to analyze.
  • #7,318
  • Dec 22, 2010 4:14am Dec 22, 2010 4:14am
Quoting TheCableGuy
Okay, I seen the 21 ema play better this time, I watched it hit the war line and I entered the top of the 5min bar, as I seen a lower high on my 1min chart.

Price moved my way a few pips, then tested my entry, if it would have broken my top 5min bar (entry area) I would have exited with about 3 pips loss.

I closed my trade with 9 pips after spread.

That was more like it.....

Thanks Golfer for the response, I understand I need to watch the PA strength, and the previous stall areas, and I have much work to do to learn how to be successful...
No problem with the trade - I would have entered just earlier as indicated on the chart.
Attached Image
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,319
  • Dec 22, 2010 4:19am Dec 22, 2010 4:19am
Quoting TheCableGuy
Could not resist this scalp, as I wait for another 5 minute setup on the MA's.

The low at 3110 was holding nicely on the bottom, let's see if it can hold this move back down here at the new hour bar.

+5 pips scalp.

Note: I will stay on topic and not post these opposing setups.
I don't usually recommend a system but if you are interested, I can recommend Vantage's Higher Low, Lower High system also here on forex factory. It is a very solid system based on price action and a well recognised pattern (1,2,3). I do use both this (Phillip's 5min system) system as well as Vantage's system as they compliment each other.

Once again - just my opinion and my style of trading.
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
  • #7,320
  • Dec 22, 2010 4:28am Dec 22, 2010 4:28am
Once again, it is all about personal style. Just a few comments on your post:

I used the methods explained in the first page,i.e sma angle, macd, and adx, waiting for it pullback, but not pulling the trigger until the macd has smoothly reversed and other indicators were in the correct circumstances.

That is the recommended way to trade this system but.....
I also started to struggle trading according to the indicators - not just my style of trading.

One main problem I noticed was I was often one period too late

That was my problem as well. The main reason why I decided to remove the additional indicators and start looking at price actions.

, as Ive read time and time again ive come to realise that indicators don't give you anything new, they just display to you the price action in another format really.

I know some traders won't agree with you because they are very successful trading with indicators. Good for them but I do agree with you.

In the mean time I kept reading this thread and noticed both the posters and the system evolved.
Im going to go for the Golfer approach now and begin to backtest mainly using price action. Paying attention to certain candles, checking the 15min and 1 hour for trend, and taking note of S/R to the left(this is the bit i really want to practice).

Just remember, what works for me doesn't mean it will work for you. But like I always say - Give a try.

Im starting to think that if you don't understand the basics of naked price action first, you shouldn't be trading.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Well said!!!!!

As I said in my first post , im just doing all this so i can learn to trade, but who knows , it would be great if someday I actually begun to use this system for profit.

I am sure you will.
Willem Forex recipe for success = Patience, discipline & hard work.
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