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Ken's Continuing Successes with EO's system

  • #2,721
  • Nov 15, 2010 6:22am Nov 15, 2010 6:22am
Quoting Trotty
Morning all,...
Hey Trotty!

As you say as well anything that we can make more specific and objective in trading the better it is imo. If we go by doing things in a specific order it makes it so much easier to look back at the end of the week and see what worked and what you might have to tweak a little. So i think it looks good and hope you'll tune in at the end of the week with your experience
  • #2,722
  • Nov 15, 2010 6:27am Nov 15, 2010 6:27am
Quoting Storeball
Hey Trotty!

As you say as well anything that we can make more specific and objective in trading the better it is imo. If we go by doing things in a specific order it makes it so much easier to look back at the end of the week and see what worked and what you might have to tweak a little. So i think it looks good and hope you'll tune in at the end of the week with your experience
Hey bud.

Absolutely, it may well need tinkering with as time goes on but i'm confident that I have - at the very least here - something to build on.

Do you have any strict trade management rules?
  • #2,723
  • Nov 15, 2010 6:50am Nov 15, 2010 6:50am
Quoting Trotty
Hey bud.

Absolutely, it may well need tinkering with as time goes on but i'm confident that I have - at the very least here - something to build on.

Do you have any strict trade management rules?
Im not the guy to hold trades for a long time at all. And generally im taking quick trades for quick profit. So for me I take care of risk first and foremost and its seldom I let a trade go more then 10pips before im at be.

Mostly if there is not something telling me the momentum is really strong, where i'll look for htf s&r, im basically out at 1:1 or the nearest ppa, swing high/low, major ma, pretty much anywhere I'll think price will have a reaction.

All in all my trade management has its leaks so its something I have to work on as well for sure
  • #2,724
  • Nov 15, 2010 7:01am Nov 15, 2010 7:01am
Quoting Storeball
Im not the guy to hold trades for a long time at all. And generally im taking quick trades for quick profit. So for me I take care of risk first and foremost and its seldom I let a trade go more then 10pips before im at be.

Mostly if there is not something telling me the momentum is really strong, where i'll look for htf s&r, im basically out at 1:1 or the nearest ppa, swing high/low, major ma, pretty much anywhere I'll think price will have a reaction.

All in all my trade management has its leaks so its something I have to work on as well for...
That sounds a lot like me up until recently mate.

I had very few trades that were more than 1:1 but it's hard to grow your account this way. Somedays i'd go 2 trades up and then lose two and be back at zero at the end of the day. A load of stress and bother for nothing!

Now this is something that might sound difficult in principle but there is no reason why, from time to time, we shouldn't be able to do this:

My stops are regularly 10-15 pips (sometimes a lot more but quite often as little as this). Daily moves are usually 100-150 on the majors so with stops that tight, from time to time we should be able to take 100-150 pips off the table from those entries. On those trades, we may end up with 1:10 R/R.

People will come up with all manner of reasons why it can't be done but you only have to look at a chart to realise that it can be done, it's just our minds in the way. Tthe only reason you won't do it is if you close every trade down before it's had the chance to move 100 pips+.

I know with this plan, eventually I will catch one of these and i'll be damn sure i'll be posting that trade up on here It's simply a case of allowing the possibility to unfold. Imagine that, 9 free trades after closing it?

I'm a glass half-full kinda guy
  • #2,725
  • Nov 15, 2010 7:29am Nov 15, 2010 7:29am
I too have been predominantly a quick in and out with about a 1:1 but I'm trying to learn to let the winners run a little more now.

I'm trying to do what I've seen done here many times which is to set an initial TP point where I take half of the position off the table, move the SL up to +3 on the remaining position and then manage this as far as I can waiting to see signs of weakness in the prevailing trend.

I've notice that many traders who are struggling tend to let the looser run and cut the winners short.

As I've been doing a good bit of reading on the subject, both in books and in this as well as the EO thread, I can't remember where I read this, but the point was made that the exit point is more important than the entry point.

Even with a bad entry, if we exit the trade soon enough we mitigate our losses, but with a winning trade the same can happen if we don't get out while it's still up leaving us with another loss even though we got our entry right.

This is something I'm trying to look at differently myself.


If we aren't learning, we're dieing..
Consistency separates luck from Skill
  • #2,726
  • Nov 15, 2010 7:39am Nov 15, 2010 7:39am
Morning Guys and Gals ( maybe) ; Don't put to much value on MA's as Targets for profit taking. As always they are just a quick reference that trades are developing.

Same reason we use them for trade management when trading towards them . Is that when we are away from the ma's moving towards them we are heading to a area of interest for a entry ( A Retrace ) Zone.

The big players making the big money are trading from one PPA-S/R to another. Then when they reach those areas watch to see if it holds or gives way. A close beyond our next PPA-S/R and we look to continue our trade a major rejection it could reverse.

The major difference between Those thay do this well and most of the rest of us. Is the plan fact that they trade their charts and we trade our account ballance.

We all should know by now that for every move there WILL be a retracement. It can and does cross the MA's 35/50 for example.

Like the post I made last friday on money mangement. Price moved from one area of interest to the next. Most of us can not bare to watch our gains leave our trade. The Best traders are trading multiple entries and adjusting the amount of thier trade at crucial areas. It can lock in profits even if you take a BE loss. But if it runs your way it can give you gains you would otherwise have missed.

Managing trades is a very personal thing as we all have to be happy with our choices. But as our accounts grow our stress lessonings and it becomes easier to do the right thing.

Like now would you gave that all back on E/J . the 4h is stil showing a short. It is teh one of the hardest areas of trading . But like Trotty come up with a plan try it out and see if it works for you.

Just wanted to remind us that the MA's do nothing more than follow price. and price is what we are trading .

Keep up the good work and trade well. Ken

PS. Had a example of that getting in the consolidation area last night. Will post it later .
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #2,727
  • Nov 15, 2010 7:43am Nov 15, 2010 7:43am
Nice post Trotty.

As I've been trading in a very similar to you actually lol. Including putting stop losses behind the candle that goes in your favor. I think you have some sound ideas, doing something similar I've been in profit (not much, but in profit) for the week.
  • #2,728
  • Nov 15, 2010 7:45am Nov 15, 2010 7:45am
This is also the reason i now mainly take only trads with the imdetate trend as when they move in our direction they CAN move fast and far enough for even us begginers to get covered and feel confortable letting them run after we lock in some gains.

But if take both Counter trend and with the trend. Our quick in and out counter trend trades will keep us from feeling comfortable enough to let winners run.

That has been my issue for a while . Just having the will power to walk away for awhile till price retraces to a new entry is how I deal with it. Once we get trading with the trend down that is when we add the other.

Even during consolidation trading with the trend will put you in the right place at the right time when it breaks those areas 90% of the time.

Plus trading with the trend even when they go against us they do so in a more slow manor not at light speed which can happen when your trying to turn price to soon.
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #2,729
  • Nov 15, 2010 7:55am Nov 15, 2010 7:55am
Cheers reaper/Ken.

As you say Ken, it's all about finding something personal.

I think this approach will work well for someone moving from taking 1:1 all the time to actually allowing him/her self to catch a few bigger moves.

It's probably not the trade management approach i'd be expecting to use in 5 years time with 7 years experience behind me but it might prove to be right for now.

Time will tell I guess....
  • #2,730
  • Nov 15, 2010 9:00am Nov 15, 2010 9:00am
Ok here is an attempt of a longer term trade. The trade itself is not really important, but instead of only focusing on the entry which i normally do i'v thought about how I can handle this trade if it turns out to infact make a little run for it.

Its au, 15min chart and 1h chart.

No matter how it it turns out, lets say it turns into a runner, how would you guys manage it?
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  • #2,731
  • Nov 15, 2010 9:32am Nov 15, 2010 9:32am
Quoting Trotty
Cheers reaper/Ken.

As you say Ken, it's all about finding something personal.

I think this approach will work well for someone moving from taking 1:1 all the time to actually allowing him/her self to catch a few bigger moves.

It's probably not the trade management approach i'd be expecting to use in 5 years time with 7 years experience behind me but it might prove to be right for now.

Time will tell I guess....
Hope you don't think i am slamming your strategy. I think it is great you are maing your own choices and sharing here. It sounds like a great idea.

Just have seen to many people here as well as on EO's thread get hung up on the MA's trading them like a cross system which this isn't that type system.

Take care and great what your doing.. Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #2,732
  • Nov 15, 2010 9:47am Nov 15, 2010 9:47am
Quoting Kenneth Lee
Hope you don't think i am slamming your strategy. I think it is great you are maing your own choices and sharing here. It sounds like a great idea.

Just have seen to many people here as well as on EO's thread get hung up on the MA's trading them like a cross system which this isn't that type system.

Take care and great what your doing.. Ken
No, not at all mate.

Listen, you are the one with the experience here of both trading in general and of this strategy. Without blowing smoke up your proverbial, I frequently ask for and seek your opinion because it's valued and sort after.

I'd much sooner you be honest and say something is a bit crap rather than tip-toe around because of politeness. We're all here to keep learning.

But I didn't take it that way anyway. The reasosn behind the theory for taking profits at the mas is because if the angle is against the trade, then I am counter the short term trend. If that's the case, more often than not i'll be looking for a bounce trade off the mas so it seems crazy to be holding a long position if I'm looking to enter short or visa versa.

I keep a log of all my trades though so if it starts to cost more than it saves, i'll think again....
  • #2,733
  • Nov 15, 2010 10:13am Nov 15, 2010 10:13am
Anyone keeping an eye on the 200sma touches on EJ 15m?

I'm looking for a possible quick get in get out entry.
  • #2,734
  • Nov 15, 2010 10:16am Nov 15, 2010 10:16am
Sorry got sidetracked on these charts. The main idea is if your looking for a long get in your trades as low as you can and if short as high, If price is near the top and your afraid you missed the entry you did. Your options are to wait for a breakout and retest or for price to pull back into the consolidatio to a area that is holding as support.

It happens time and a gain that people enter near a top and get stopped out just for price to breakout on the next run up. If you enter badlly add that to your trade plan and enter small saving some to add on. or get stopped with a small loss and re-enter.

PS. I wonder if DR. is still holding the e/j short he had the entry. But those retraces are a killer.
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Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #2,735
  • Nov 15, 2010 10:20am Nov 15, 2010 10:20am
Quoting ReaperKK
Anyone keeping an eye on the 200sma touches on EJ 15m?

I'm looking for a possible quick get in get out entry.
Been noticing them, touched twice already that is pretty much my limit . The third time can break and we are getting lower tops to the wicks . I would like to see a retest of 113.00 myself then make a new low.
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #2,736
  • Nov 15, 2010 10:23am Nov 15, 2010 10:23am
Morning Trotty, awesome work there. When I was reading through your plan I wasn't sure if you meant that you'd be taking partial profits at those areas or full profits? Partial profits changed everything for me -- depending upon where I'm at in relation to the daily and the session levels I take half off at either +20 or +50, then the rest comes off at major points which I'll identify and mark beforehand. I try to readd on the retest of these points but I've got a lot of work to do in that regard, a lot of times I just watch it go by.
  • #2,737
  • Nov 15, 2010 10:27am Nov 15, 2010 10:27am
oops covered it up
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Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #2,738
  • Nov 15, 2010 10:27am Nov 15, 2010 10:27am
Quoting Kenneth Lee
Been noticing them, touched twice already that is pretty much my limit . The third time can break and we are getting lower tops to the wicks . I would like to see a retest of 113.00 myself then make a new low.
It's also got the daily 50 right there providing support; I don't thing it's going to have the juice to break through without first retesting 113
  • #2,739
  • Nov 15, 2010 10:44am Nov 15, 2010 10:44am
Quoting dr mongolia
Morning Trotty, awesome work there. When I was reading through your plan I wasn't sure if you meant that you'd be taking partial profits at those areas or full profits? Partial profits changed everything for me -- depending upon where I'm at in relation to the daily and the session levels I take half off at either +20 or +50, then the rest comes off at major points which I'll identify and mark beforehand. I try to readd on the retest of these points but I've got a lot of work to do in that regard, a lot of times I just watch it go by.
Cheers man, appreciate that

Now, partial profit taking at the mas would be an awesome approach and then waiting and seeing for the other portion.

The only trouble is, it wouldn't work for me. My actual trades are via Oanda and as far as I can figure out, there is no easy way to take 50% off.

One option is obviously to enter with two contracts. Don't know if Oanda allows this, i've never tried. Might be a bit messy if price is moving fast but I would like to investigate the idea further though....
  • #2,740
  • Nov 15, 2010 10:45am Nov 15, 2010 10:45am
Quoting Trotty
Cheers man, appreciate that

Now, partial profit taking at the mas would be an awesome approach and then waiting and seeing for the other portion.

The only trouble is, it wouldn't work for me. My actual trades are via Oanda and as far as I can figure out, there is no easy way to take 50% off.

One option is obviously to enter with two contracts. Don't know if Oanda allows this, i've never tried. Might me a bit messy if price is moving fast but I would like to investigate the idea further though....

yes just click buy or sell adjust your order size and enter . It will come up with a warning that you are about to adjust your position .
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
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