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steps to follow when a broker scams you?

  • #21
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:31pm Nov 12, 2010 4:31pm
Quoting shrike
Not exactly familiar with Cyprus, but it being member of the EU it must adhere to minimum standards according to Mifid - so they do have some sort of regulation. By the way, i doubt they can treat eu-citizens and cyprus citizens differently.

Anyways, i agree Cyprus is sort of dodgy, alot of questionable firms are domiciled there. Wonder why that is. Maybe some legal loophole or something?

Mifid does not apply to unregulated brokers such as this one. Cysec does not need nor want to regulate brokers that do not offer their services within CY, which is also very true in plenty of other jurisdictions. Lots of financial services companies domiciled in Delaware that are not regulated within the US because they do not offer their services there and there is nothing the NFA, SEC, CFTC can or even want to do about any disputes with them.
  • #22
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:32pm Nov 12, 2010 4:32pm
Quoting cloggie
Cysec has no say over the broker see this:

http://www.cysec.gov.cy/Downloads/In...%20Prime4x.pdf

The Broker is not regulated as a Financial Institution, so the ombudsman, when that ever comes in has no say over it.

So now you want a lawfirm and a debtcollector to work for free for you and take a cut out of the money they may recover in 5 years time? When are you going...

Oh, so its really an outright fraud. Guessing 5 minutes of googling never hurts before sending money over. Who would have thunk..
  • #23
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:33pm Nov 12, 2010 4:33pm
Shrike,

i concur with you, Cyprus is EEC, so is obliged to treat all EU citizens like nationals.

i was reading this abt the Ombudsman : "The Body will also be able to examine and resolve cross-border financial disputes.".


i will try to get their details.

@cloogie....nah.... not worth the writing..
  • #24
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:34pm Nov 12, 2010 4:34pm
Quoting shrike
Oh, so its really an outright fraud. Guessing 5 minutes of googling never hurts before sending money over. Who would have thunk..

OF course it is, but the OP is clasping at straws here.
  • #25
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:35pm Nov 12, 2010 4:35pm
Quoting cloggie
Mifid does not apply to unregulated brokers such as this one. Cysec does not need nor want to regulate brokers that do not offer their services within CY, which is also very true in plenty of other jurisdictions. Lots of financial services companies domiciled in Delaware that are not regulated withing the US because they do not offer their services there.
Ok, but that means also they arent allowed to offer their service in other EU countries as well. CySec (or any other EU regulator) would have to issue a so called passport for that.
  • #26
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:35pm Nov 12, 2010 4:35pm
Quoting jackdan
Shrike,

i concur with you, Cyprus is EEC, so is obliged to treat all EU citizens like nationals.

i was reading this abt the Ombudsman : "The Body will also be able to examine and resolve cross-border financial disputes.".

..

You need to read the rest and not just a quote, only applies to banks and insurance companies. Primefx is neither, and in the eye of the law in CY is not even a financial services company as it does not offer any services within CY.
  • #27
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:36pm Nov 12, 2010 4:36pm
Quoting shrike
Ok, but that means also they arent allowed to offer their service in other EU countries as well. CySec (or any other EU regulator) would have to issue a so called passport for that.

No they don't. They don't offer financial services, the user makes its own choices about investments, not the company. That is the problem in the EU, even a broker based in the UK does not need to be regulated if he does not accept UK clients and he can happily sollicit clients from the rest of Europe.
  • #28
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:37pm Nov 12, 2010 4:37pm
Quoting shrike
Oh, so its really an outright fraud. Guessing 5 minutes of googling never hurts before sending money over. Who would have thunk..

Document has been issued 17 december 2009. I did open my acct with them in january 2009. For as much google i would have done then,i would not have found it.

But, again, we do not need to focus on prime4x, i took it as an example, but there are more.

I do not mean a law firm to work for free, but i also doubt they would charge 50.000 us$ to start a legal claim.

I also believe that as a citizen, at least in europe, the state is due to represent you, and maybe a Police denunce could be a start for penal ,not civil, trial. because , if they are not registered, i believe they could be sued for fraud.
  • #29
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:43pm Nov 12, 2010 4:43pm
Quoting cloggie
No they don't. They don't offer financial services, the user makes its own choices about investments, not the company. That is the problem in the EU, even a broker based in the UK does not need to be regulated if he does not accept UK clients and he can happily sollicit clients from the rest of Europe.

Actually, i think they did. They offered pamm account or investments. I think I remember one from FPA caiming about he wasn't refund from his pamm acct.
  • #30
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:44pm Nov 12, 2010 4:44pm
Quoting jackdan
Actually, i think they did. They offered pamm account or investments. I think I remember one from FPA caiming about he wasn't refund from his pamm acct.

You are missing the point, they can have 1,000's of PAMM accounts and manage 100Billion of money in funds, as long as they don't sollicit domestically they do not need to be regulated. That is not just a quirk in Cyprus, the same applies in any other country.
  • #31
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:44pm Nov 12, 2010 4:44pm
I only know that in ANY semi-serious regulatory regime its is absolutely forbidden for a firm that has only remotely to do with financial services(be it outright portfolio management, advising or only acting on an agency basis) to accept client-funds without a license from the regulator. I cant imagine that this is legal in an EU member state.

In any case, Cyprus appears to be the Florida of the Euro-area.
  • #32
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:46pm Nov 12, 2010 4:46pm
Quoting shrike
I only know that in ANY semi-serious regulatory regime its is absolutely forbidden for a firm that has only remotely to do with financial services(be it outright portfolio management, advising or only acting on an agency basis) to accept client-funds without a license from the regulator. I cant imagine that this is legal in an EU member state.

In any case, Cyprus appears to be the Florida of the Euro-area.

No regulator is going to regulate a firm that only has foreign clients, that applies in the UK, the US and any other country in the world, not just Cyprus. There are 1,000's of unregulated funds listed in Delaware Goldman, UBS, City, Barclays all use it.

Why do so many pick Cyprus, they have a good corporate tax structure, just as Cayman, Delaware, Jersey, etc.
  • #33
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:51pm Nov 12, 2010 4:51pm
Cloggie,


I think you are wrong. I think the regulation applies for all european clients, and non europeans aren't protected.

I know i read that in cysec webpage. That regulation applies to eec citizens.

I am now trying to find the link. But, also, you can read in the doc you linked:

3.
No notification has been received by a competent authority of another Member State, pursuant to sections 77 and 80 of the abovementioned Law.

"member State"... relate to eec.
  • #34
  • Nov 12, 2010 4:58pm Nov 12, 2010 4:58pm
Quoting jackdan
Cloggie,


I think you are wrong. I think the regulation applies for all european clients, and non europeans aren't protected.

I know i read that in cysec webpage. That regulation applies to eec citizens.

I am now trying to find the link. But, also, you can read in the doc you linked:

3.
No notification has been received by a competent authority of another Member State, pursuant to sections 77 and 80 of the abovementioned Law.

"member State"... relate to eec.
Fine don't take my word for it, read it yourself:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0060428-en.pdf
  • #35
  • Nov 12, 2010 5:05pm Nov 12, 2010 5:05pm
cloggie: and those funds are allowed to solicit money from non-ECP/retail clients? Just wondering, never heard of a Delaware fx fraud. They all appeared to have moved from Switzerland (after they tightened up) to Cyprus or Mauritius.

to the op: i think if you are in this situation, its already to late. Getting money out of a firm that is probably just a po-box somewhere in Nicosia is probably not worth the money for a lawyer and a waste of time. In my opinion, from a small retail spec perspective, UK has one of the more favourable environments. They got an Ombudsman, who can help resolve disputes on the cheap, they got a compensation scheme for fin.firm bankruptcies, which may be able to refund, and they got at least a regulator with a public register. Even tho the FSA doesnt have much of a reputation too..
  • #36
  • Edited 5:28pm Nov 12, 2010 5:14pm | Edited 5:28pm
Quoting shrike
cloggie: and those funds are allowed to solicit money from non-ECP/retail clients? Just wondering, never heard of a Delaware fx fraud. They all appeared to have moved from Switzerland (after they tightened up) to Cyprus or Mauritius.
..
Even now, the SEC only demands brokers to be regulated if they sollicit US clients, it does not specify the domicile of the broker. Setting up a business in CY is a lot cheaper then Delaware and it is sunnier over there, probably a preferred choice of domicile of the scammers.

Cyprus is trying to clean up its act and it is identifying some of these dodgy brokers and trying to force them to be regulated by them, they just move up shop to the next jursidiction that lets them operate.

Delaware has always been the domicile of choice for the larger funds, just spend a bit of time on google and you will be surprised how many PPM's you can find with a domicile in Delaware as fund or General/limited partner.
  • #37
  • Edited 5:35pm Nov 12, 2010 5:15pm | Edited 5:35pm
Quoting shrike
to the op: i think if you are in this situation, its already to late. Getting money out of a firm that is probably just a po-box somewhere in Nicosia is probably not worth the money for a lawyer and a waste of time.
Totally agree, but we can use the OP's misfortune here to (again) identify the need for proper due dilligence when selecting a broker. If your broker is not regulated in either the EU or US, has 50MM of capital and "known" to the community here, run.

If a broker is not robust enough to subject themselves to a US or EU regulator, that should be a very strong signal to avoid them like the plague.

There is probably a thousand brokers out there, but there are only 6 or so I would trust my money to and I am using 4 of them.

It boggles me how so many retailers just send their hard earned cash to any broker they can find without doing any due dilligence on them.
  • #38
  • Nov 13, 2010 8:18am Nov 13, 2010 8:18am
Reading this, i wonder why i trade!

I should make a broker, and scam people, as aparently there is no way whatsoever the justice would come after me, not any responsability anywhere.

Definately, the business of the future, why should the bank robbers risk they're freedom.

Let's make a brokerage and scam around, there is no way the justice can go after us.

Business for future!
  • #39
  • Nov 13, 2010 8:23am Nov 13, 2010 8:23am
Quoting cloggie
Totally agree, but we can use the OP's misfortune here to (again) identify the need for proper due dilligence when selecting a broker.

My misfortune in this case is 500 usd (value of my deposit), and my account is rounding 5k balance, but my deposit is actually what i am thinking when i think about the money i lost. I was not talking about me, again... geee i wonder why you always saw it this way. I wanted to open a discussion about what are the possible steps after FPA and making noise in the web.

For what you say, nothing, and therefore, i repeat what i just said,

To all person that have been scammed, build up a broker, because, for what cloggie says, there is absolutely no way anyone, person or justice, will ask you any responsability. It is mor dangerous to steal a pack of milk from the supermarket than scam thousands of usd to people around the world with a brokerage.

Woaw, i wonder why i did not think about this before! Like the USA WILD WEST...... No laws....
  • #40
  • Nov 13, 2010 8:59am Nov 13, 2010 8:59am
Quoting jackdan
Woaw, i wonder why i did not think about this before! Like the USA WILD WEST...... No laws....
You should accept the fact that you're not very bright and stop trading now before you really get hurt.
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