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steps to follow when a broker scams you?

  • #1
  • First Post: Nov 12, 2010 11:01am Nov 12, 2010 11:01am
Well, i see a lot of discussions about brokers, too many about people saying they have been scammed. Me personally, i have suffered 2 scams untill now, in two different brokers, both from Cyprus. One is Gigfx and the other one is Prime4x. In both i have capital they would not withdraw. I am not talking about stop hunting or other trick when you trade, but money stuck there that they would not withdraw back to you. Basically, undiscussed blocked balances

Well, going around, you can see a few places where you can review the broker, and well, say how bad they are. Like forexpeacearmy. You can also fill a scam claim, onlyif you've been member there for a while and posted a few post. Me personally, after 30 post and 2 years membership, i stil can't fill my claim.

The point is, basically, the trader is without any force neither weapons to fight against those brokers...

Or not?

I am certain that among the members of this forum, more than one are lawyers, and they will be from different places in the world, like cyprus, mauritius, switzerland, uk, wherever...

And maybe those lawyers could be interested in taking the case Vs a % of that balance to recover. Like, well, 10,25...20%...

Maybe they could write here their opinion, cost, and whatever.

Among the members of Forexpeacearmy, that are A LOT having same problems than mine, i read a lot of balances. A lot of money!

I must say that the staff from forexpeacearmy may do something in the dark, but i do not get that feeling , and so i wrote in their forum (maybe this is why i still can not post a scam claim, as they haven't promoted me yet).

I also read in many places, other poeple saying the same about the peacearmy staff. greed and fear for loosing advertising incomes , or maybe only the lazyness of success, is provoquing it, the unatendance of the complains.

So, why don't we create a sticky with lawyers around, or debt collectors, or similar service, that could help traders stuck in situations like mine.

Maybe, this sound stupid, but so was the first vapor engine, a stupid idea that made a revolution.

green pips all.
  • #2
  • Nov 12, 2010 12:27pm Nov 12, 2010 12:27pm
that's why you really got to use a regulated broker. american, australian, some place where the meaning has some weight.
BarrySDCA Commercial Network Services
  • #3
  • Nov 12, 2010 12:56pm Nov 12, 2010 12:56pm
Quoting BarrySDCA
that's why you really got to use a regulated broker. american, australian, some place where the meaning has some weight.
Yes, true, but in other places, means nothing. Who would expect, for instance, that a well developped country like Finland, or New Zealand, register forex companies, but have no specific request to the brokerage firm, or Mauritius.


You read, broker registered, and then, after a while, you discover that the registry is worth nothing, or is it not?

Maybe someone understanding laws better than me could tell me.

Definately, Is there nothing to do? I was reading in this forum , another guy, from prime4x, waiting for 70.000 ++ usd withdrawals. Prime4x was from Cyprus, an european country, with laws...

At least, fraud in these countries are sued, i am not talking of a country where there are no rules, like zimbabwe, or somalia...

Cyprus Are EEC , with laws, judges , police and jails...

Do we have any lawyer from cyprus around? i read a lot of those scammers are from that Island.
  • #4
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:02pm Nov 12, 2010 1:02pm
I'm sure if we have any lawyers here they will speak up

my opinion, after the fact....

I would contact them by express mail (certified) and very clearly describe the issue. Do not assume the person reading the letter has any idea of the issue, so be polite yet firm.

Let them know the issue you are experiencing and that you demand a withdrawal of your funds within 10 days of receipt.

Also let them know that if they fail to pay you your money then you will file a complaint with their regulator and also bring the issue to the front of the FOREX community on the Internet.

Remind them how powerful the Internet community is and that you hope it will not become necessary.

If all that fails then follow-thru on your promise and that's that. from that point it will just have to be a lesson learned I'm afraid.
BarrySDCA Commercial Network Services
  • #5
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:07pm Nov 12, 2010 1:07pm
Quoting jackdan
Well, i see a lot of discussions about brokers, too many about people saying they have been scammed. Me personally, i have suffered 2 scams untill now, in two different brokers, both from Cyprus. One is Gigfx and the other one is Prime4x. In both i have capital they would not withdraw. I am not talking about stop hunting or other trick when you trade, but money stuck there that they would not withdraw back to you. Basically, undiscussed blocked balances

Well, going around, you can see a few places where you can review the broker, and well, say...
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/recovery/
  • #6
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:09pm Nov 12, 2010 1:09pm
Well, Barry,


what you propose is basically what forexpeacearmy does, or is supposed to do, after filling their scam claim. With the internet comunity and so.

What i am talking about is the step after. You mention the lesson learned, well, yes, but if we think like this, then poeple like Maddof would still be enjoying his yatchs, houses and pleasures of the monies...

There must be some legal ways! I mean, those brokerage belong to someone, have managers, and poeple involved. I alwaysread things like what you say: lesson learned...

There must be another step...
  • #7
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:09pm Nov 12, 2010 1:09pm
Quoting TC East
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/recovery/
Sorry; didn't see when I posted that you already knew about this...
  • #8
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:15pm Nov 12, 2010 1:15pm
Quoting TC East
http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/recovery/

I have read too much around, and have personally followed 1 case with FPA, where basically, they have done nothing.

And me, i an still a novice there, despite 30 + post and 2 years membership ( they requierement are 2 post and 6 month for upgrade and be able to file a scam claim), and because of that i can not fill the claim. I also complain in their forums by the fact that the FPA reads more and more about 1 broker, and they do not react. Prime is exactly one case. You read so many cases, but no reaction whatsoever from the staff.

There are proof enought to declare the broker scam, and nothing... I mean, poeple with their account number, and amount due.

to me, everyday, FPA is loosing it's shine, and you can read so in many forex forums arounds, from France to Malaysia.

And again, i am looking for the step after FPA...

I mean, the heavy weights weapons of the laws....

There is one in FPA saying about several hundreds of thousands us$. Amazing this one does not have lawyers involved already, tat sounds suspicious to me. If i have several hundreds involved in a scam, i'd have a few dozens to speak with some central american or colombian "cleaner" to make the law and send him for cleaning.....hehehe.... not my case thou...
  • #9
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:17pm Nov 12, 2010 1:17pm
Jackdan, the solution is very simple. Stop sending your money to some dodgy two-bit broker in a jurisdiction that has no regulations to speak of.

There are only a handful of reputable brokers in the retail sphere, stick to them and you will have no problem.

Stop blaming your broker and take responsibility for your own stupidity for picking a broker with less then 50Mill in capital and not regulated by one of the biggies (NFA, FSA, CFTC).

You will lose your money again and your stops will be hunted from here to eternity until you wisen up a bit.

People spend more time here researching a silly indicator then they do putting their broker through proper due dilligence.

Am I sorry that you lost your money? Not at all and I hope you learn from the lesson.

Thanks for sharing your inability in selecting a proper broker, maybe some other noobie retailer will now pay a bit more attention.

Oh and getting your money back? From a Limited Liability Company owned by several other overseas Companies with proxy directors in dodgy jursidictions? No chance.

So your next step? By all means keep writing them letters, send a copy to the CySEC, but don't expect any results. So now take this broker selection process seriously and find yourself a proper one.

Come on jackdan, you have been scammed twice by two different dodgy brokers, when are you going to learn your lesson?
  • #10
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:30pm Nov 12, 2010 1:30pm
Quoting cloggie
Jackdan, the solution is very simple. Stop sending your money to some dodgy two-bit broker in a jurisdiction that has no regulations to speak of.

There are only a handful of reputable brokers in the retail sphere, stick to them and you will have no problem.

Stop blaming your broker and take responsibility for your own stupidity for picking a broker with less then 50Mill in capital and not regulated by one of the biggies (NFA, FSA, CFTC).

You will lose your money again and your stops will be hunted from here to eternity until you wisen up a bit.

People...

Cloggie, thank you for your advise, you must be one of those that after 1 day of life was singing like Montserrat Caballe and running like Usain Bolt, and after 2 days ol living discussing the relativity laws with Einstein...

But unfortunately, we are not all so clever than you, and neither so doted. Thank you for beeing such an ace in everything.

Now that you have made clear you position ,unless you bring something better than that to this discussion, you can shut off and get off this discussion. There are a lot of poeple involved in this problem, and i just opened a discussion to see if any solutions could be builded.

Beeing perfect like you are is not one.

Sure that if i could walk like Usain does, i would not have had this accident.

Oh, but.... How many serious, and so clever as you are, poeple did send their money to Madoff?....
  • #11
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:36pm Nov 12, 2010 1:36pm
Quoting jackdan
Cloggie, thank you for your advise, you must be one of those that after 1 day of life was singing like Montserrat Caballe and running like Usain Bolt, and after 2 days ol living discussing the relativity laws with Einstein...

But unfortunately, we are not all so clever than you, and neither so doted. Thank you for beeing such an ace in everything.

Now that you have made clear you position , you can shut off and get off this discussion. There are a lot of poeple involved in this problem, and i just opened a discussion to see if any solutions could...

This is a public forum and I am only using your example as a warning to others. 2 minutes on Google found Prime Forex LLC to have an office at Suite 401 South Floor Megaro Stavrakis Building Larnaca. The same offices was also the previous address of a broker called IRFX and is the addresss of several IB's touting for business in Asia.

A quick search would have flagged up major problems with this broker and should have served as a warning to you.


As to trying to get your money back, it took the NFA 3 years and 1,000's of manhours to prove a single claim against Gain regarding stop hunting, you are not well positioned to get anywhere with these guys.

Wouldn't your time be better suited to finding a real broker and focus on making the money you lost here back as fast as you can rather then continuing this fruitless exercise?

Keep writing them letters, as I stated before, cc the CySEC in all your correspondence, post a querie on FPA, write a letter to your home country's regulator.

Start accepting you got scammed and move on. Alternatively hire a lawyer in Cyprus, expect to spend about 30-50k and still have no guarantee you will ever receive a penny, it is very hard for you to prove that they were hunting your stops, they can just blame it on liquidity and you can never prove otherwise. A case like this will take al least a year out of your life with several trips needed down there, why throw good money after bad? Unless you had a 100k+ account, it is just not economically viable to go after them, and they know that. As to getting several victims together? Only in the US is class action suits acceptable, any judge in CY would throw it out as each case needs to be judged on its own merits, you are on your own.
  • #12
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:44pm Nov 12, 2010 1:44pm
Quoting cloggie

Start accepting you got scammed and move on.


These are the statements from the very clever that definately would not help to solve the problem.

Again, With these kinds of declaration, you would have Mr Madoff in his yacht, his villa first line to the beach and, enjoying the pleasure of live.


But, ok, writing notes to Cysec is something, something that has been done. I can even tell you the name of the manager of prime4x. But, i am not here to actually go for Prime4x. I am here to start a thread, where poeple that understand laws, lawyer, more likely, or, organizations that are specialised to collect debts, could write their proposals.

I do not need the clever from the neighborhood to come here and tell me what i should have done. that i know already.

You're like the typical @sshole, that goes to the hospital, and visit the tetraplegic guy in the bed to tell him, yes, you should not have gone that road, neither that speed, and you should have used a car, and not a bike.....
ĄżĄżĄżĄ DON'T YOU THINK THE GUY IN THE BED DOESN'T KNOW IT ?!?!?!?! AND REPEATING HIMSELF EVERY MINUTE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.....

i am the guy who would come and tell him abt the experiment and the stem cell, that have been working on mices... Even if i am not the scientist...
  • #13
  • Nov 12, 2010 1:51pm Nov 12, 2010 1:51pm
Quoting jackdan
These are the statements from the very clever that definately would not help to solve the problem.

Again, With these kinds of declaration, you would have Mr Madoff in his yacht, his villa first line to the beach and, enjoying the pleasure of live.


But, ok, writing notes to Cysec is something, something that has been done. I can even tell you the name of the manager of prime4x. But, i am not here to actually go for Prime4x. I am here...

You need to see it from the other side, if a guy goes in the hospital having jumped of a cliff and broken both his legs, and then does it again several months later, the doctor would have him committed in a psych ward.

You got scammed twice, by 2 dodgy brokers, each of which 2 minutes on Google would have flagged up as at least troublesome and you want to start a thread here to feel better? What, so you can find others that have lost a few hundred quid? And what do you think you can do about them? Not a lot, if anything.

So now you want me to feel sorry for you? You got it coming, it was only a matter of time.

So let me repeat again, move on, learn your lesson, finally and find yourself a proper broker and chalk this one up as a life experience.

There are hundreds of threads and posts here on how to find a real broker, use them.

Stick your hand in a viper's nest and you will be bitten, that should teach you a lesson and not make you decide to try one more time......
  • #14
  • Edited 2:08pm Nov 12, 2010 1:54pm | Edited 2:08pm
Quoting cloggie
Start accepting you got scammed and move on. Alternatively hire a lawyer in Cyprus, expect to spend about 30-50k and still have no guarantee you will ever receive a penny, it is very hard for you to prove that they were hunting your stops, they can just blame it on liquidity and you can never prove otherwise. A case like this will take al least a year out of your life with several trips needed down there, why throw good money after bad? Unless you had a 100k+ account, it is just not economically viable to go after them, and they know that. As to...
Basically, i am not talking abt stop-hunting, or other tricks like these, but pending balances.

You are not right when you say :"As to getting several victims together? Only in the US is class action suits acceptable". Not only in the us you can do joined parties trials.

Cloggie, you have made your position clear enought, and i will not discuss it any further with you.


For the other readers of the thread:

Again, i am not talking about Prime4x itself only, even though if so many poeple are claiming for their withdrawals like mad in FPA right now.

I would like to start a constructive discussion with some lawyers or debtcollectors that could tell here what would the best steps to be taken, after FPA clai, and after sending letters and faxes, and make public their problem....

Once all these steps are taken, then what coould be done? Maybe some practise from Cyprus, and/or Mauritius ( i smell next problems may well come from there), or from New Zealand, could tell us here ... or give their emails..

I took the example of Prime4x because it is the one i know better. I am not too much compromised there, so, yes indeed, i could go further, but others are very much compromised, with bigger sum, like the one i mention earlyer with 70++ k US$, and maybe them would read heere with atention some ideas.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...73&postcount=1 (this one, for instance...)

But no need to say what we should have done... or that NFA and CMTC are the one perfect regulators...this is not the purpose of this thread... Thanks
  • #15
  • Nov 12, 2010 2:11pm Nov 12, 2010 2:11pm
Quoting jackdan
Basically, i am not talking abt stop-hunting, or other tricks like these, but pending balances.

You are not right when you say :"As to getting several victims together? Only in the US is class action suits acceptable". Not only in the us you can do joined parties trials.

Cloggie, you have made your position clear enought, and i will not discuss it any further with you.


For the other readers of the thread:

Again, i am not talking about Prime4x itself only, even though if so many poeple are claiming for their withdrawals like mad in FPA right...

Unless you take them to court, with the associated cost and win a judgement against them, no debt collector can do anything. As to taking legal action, find yourself a lawyer in Cyprus and take them to court, you don't need any help form anybody here. Your third option is to get the regulator involved, fat chance.

Those are your options, you may not like them, but that is all there is. All of them cost you money, so you need to weigh up the cost to the potential recovery of any money. These scammers know what they are doing and will keep doing it. Even a guy who lost 70k may have to decide that it is not economically viable to recover it as it will take years and cost as much in legal fees.

This thread won't last long here as you are spouting allegations that are inflammatory and not proven, just hearsay and your word.

Life is tough, get used to it. Try to limit your risk by dealing with a reputable broker.
  • #16
  • Nov 12, 2010 2:14pm Nov 12, 2010 2:14pm
Cyprus govt has passed a law this summer to establish a "Financial Ombudsman" office. I dont know if this is operational yet (probably not). Its planned to be very simmilar to the one in the UK. The ombudsman is supposed to settle disputes between consumers and financial institutions, and its way cheaper (if not free) then getting a lawyer.
  • #17
  • Nov 12, 2010 2:21pm Nov 12, 2010 2:21pm
Quoting shrike
Cyprus govt has passed a law this summer to establish a "Financial Ombudsman" office. I dont know if this is operational yet (probably not). Its planned to be very simmilar to the one in the UK. The ombudsman is supposed to settle disputes between consumers and financial institutions, and its way cheaper (if not free) then getting a lawyer.

The FSO only covers Banking and Insurance, not brokers and securities, the claimant must be resident of Cyprus and the law has not taken effect yet, so no help there.

Why do you think these brokers are located in places like this? Little to no regulation, little to no supervision and no recourse for the ones that are duped.
  • #18
  • Nov 12, 2010 2:25pm Nov 12, 2010 2:25pm
Quoting shrike
Cyprus govt has passed a law this summer to establish a "Financial Ombudsman" office. I dont know if this is operational yet (probably not). Its planned to be very simmilar to the one in the UK. The ombudsman is supposed to settle disputes between consumers and financial institutions, and its way cheaper (if not free) then getting a lawyer.

Thanks shrike. I will investigate, and put it in the first post. This is actually a good new. I have been in touch with the cysec for another case ( the one i mention that i followed in fpa), and i must say they have not been very helpfull, beeing very vague about the steps to follow.

This case was about a big number of traders that were scammed. And a big amount of money.

I am amazed to see that civilised countries, like Cyprus is, are lasting so long to put the ways to fight against that scam. There are a lot of people involved in these matters.

Actually, i would also suppose some law firm could be interested in specialising in these cases. Or any newly graduated lawyer.

Again, i am not saying about any tricks like stop hunting, or virtual dealer plug-in, but literally money hold by the broker that belong to the customer, the available balance of his account.

Reading throught, there is no need for a lawsuit to have a debt collector working to recover that balance. There would be a need of one if the balance would be disputed. But, for the greatest majority of the cases i read, the balance is not disputed, and the broker is actually "processing" or "have processed" the withdrawal.

A debt collector could perfectly do the writings and the calls, do the visits to the broker office, for a % of the balance, and could perfectly work together wit a law firm and get specialised. More if those kinds of scams are growing in numbers.
  • #19
  • Nov 12, 2010 2:28pm Nov 12, 2010 2:28pm
Quoting jackdan
Thanks shrike. I will investigate, and put it in the first post. This is actually a good new. I have been in touch with the cysec for another case ( the one i mention that i followed in fpa), and i must say they have not been very helpfull, beeing very vague about the steps to follow.

This case was about a big number of traders that were scammed. And a big amount of money.

I am amazed to see that civilised countries, like Cyprus is, are lasting so long to put the ways to fight against that scam. There are a lot of people involved in these matters.

Actually,...
Cysec has no say over the broker see this:

http://www.cysec.gov.cy/Downloads/In...%20Prime4x.pdf

The Broker is not regulated as a Financial Institution, so the ombudsman, when that ever comes in has no say over it.

So now you want a lawfirm and a debtcollector to work for free for you and take a cut out of the money they may recover in 5 years time? When are you going to accept responsibility yourself?
  • #20
  • Nov 12, 2010 2:29pm Nov 12, 2010 2:29pm
Not exactly familiar with Cyprus, but it being member of the EU it must adhere to minimum standards according to Mifid - so they do have some sort of regulation. By the way, i doubt they can treat eu-citizens and cyprus citizens differently.

Anyways, i agree Cyprus is sort of dodgy, alot of questionable firms are domiciled there. Wonder why that is. Maybe some legal loophole or something?
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