3-9% a day with CHOROS? | Page 2 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

CHOROS System 16,719 replies

CHOROS Interactive 2,625 replies

Money management for CHOROS and other strategies 2 replies

The Cable double day / the two day "rule" 14 replies

I want to pay off my mortgage asap with Choros 181 replies

3-9% a day with CHOROS?

  • #21
  • Oct 11, 2010 6:07am Oct 11, 2010 6:07am
Thanks leemonk,

I think it is a kind of psycho issue with myself. I am using other trading methods and objectively I think a few percent per day is possible, but subjectively I just find it difficult to believe, because 3% a day is about doubling the account per month, and more than 1000 times the account per year.

I think it is not only me having a bit problem in working with such a belief of limitation.

cheers,
kk007

P.S. For me, making 20-40 pips per day is as difficult to believe as making a few percent per day.

Quoting leemonk
The 3% per day isnt the question in my view.

Can someone make 20-40 pips per day consistantly. If the answer to that is a yes, then they can make 3%. If it's a yes, then they can make 20% per day.

As I am sure you know, it's all about risk. So, can Kostas make 30 pips per day...... I beleive he can.

Regards

Lee
  • #22
  • Oct 11, 2010 7:57am Oct 11, 2010 7:57am
Never even heard of it before and don't think 3% a day is even remotely possible without eventually blowing the entire account.
  • #23
  • Oct 11, 2010 9:39am Oct 11, 2010 9:39am
Quoting Davidee
Never even heard of it before and don't think 3% a day is even remotely possible without eventually blowing the entire account.
I am not sure how much would you think to be "reasonable", but I can tell you a story of mine.

When I told a friend (in investment business) of mine that I was going to day-trading some time ago. He told me with certainty that what I could expect was maximum a yearly return of 15%. This rate is already very good to a fund manager, much higher than the inflation and interest rate. Because it is maximum 15%, I need to attract a big fund in order that I can survive with the profit.

Since I have worked in a financial trading firm, I know there is a great difference between trading and investment, but I could not convince him about the difference.
  • #24
  • Oct 11, 2010 11:48am Oct 11, 2010 11:48am
Quoting kk007
Congratulation for your confidence in seeing so many opportunities. Are you going to be a billionaire one day?
Yes, I'm confident because I've been trading one of these systems for three months with very good results and another one for almost two months with great results. I live in the US, but I want to trade both London Open and NY Open, so I sleep during day and trade during night and during morning. If somebody thinks that there is a 15-minutes-per-day-system that can make you a professional trader and bring you a substantial income or that you can trade just a couple of hours after NY Open... Well, like they say: if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is! FOREX is a business! A full-time business!

However I'm not trying to convince anybody or prove anything. What for? If you're happy with 20-40 pips per day and it is your goal - it's none of my business.
  • #25
  • Oct 11, 2010 12:14pm Oct 11, 2010 12:14pm
Quoting Fokusnik
Yes, I'm confident because I've been trading one of these systems for three months with very good results and another one for almost two months with great results. I live in the US, but I want to trade both London Open and NY Open, so I sleep during day and trade during night and during morning. If somebody thinks that there is a 15-minutes-per-day-system that can make you a professional trader and bring you a substantial income or that you can trade just a couple of hours after NY Open... Well, like they say: if it sounds too good to be true, it...
OK. I think number of pip is not as important as % account increase. Do you make more than 3% a day, everyday?
  • #26
  • Oct 11, 2010 12:24pm Oct 11, 2010 12:24pm
Quoting kk007
OK. I think number of pip is not as important as % account increase. Do you make more than 3% a day, everyday?
I think as leemonk pointed out, the percentage increase in your account is down to the risk you want to take with your trades. If you are a scalper and have a very tight stop loss, the amount you risk per trade is going to be greater than someone who has a larger stop loss. Both are probably risking the same amount of the account if they lose, but the scalper will win more money with less pips and also lose their money with less pips if it fails. Each to his own. But Kostas has shown his trades over and over again in that thread and he has the discipline to stop when he reaches x amount of pips that he wants to make.

That system is derived from one of the many setups in eohater's thread and if you read through it, you will find that 30 pips is nothing in a day compared to what some of the others make.
  • #27
  • Oct 11, 2010 12:45pm Oct 11, 2010 12:45pm
Quoting kk007
OK. I think number of pip is not as important as % account increase. Do you make more than 3% a day, everyday?
luckylady explained it so good that I can't add anything.

Just one more thing: there's nothing personal, but the guy who likes to count other people's money will never have his own money. Sad but true.


P.S. Bye-bye! Have to go to bed!
  • #28
  • Edited 1:25pm Oct 11, 2010 1:11pm | Edited 1:25pm
There is nothing personal, but there is no logic in this statement. A wealthy person can be interested in how other make money.

Quoting Fokusnik
Just one more thing: there's nothing personal, but the guy who likes to count other people's money will never have his own money. Sad but true.
Also, don't think I don't know the simple maths.
If I can set 1 pip = 1% or 10%, why I need anything more than 40 pip?
  • #29
  • Oct 11, 2010 1:14pm Oct 11, 2010 1:14pm
Quoting luckylady
I think as leemonk pointed out, the percentage increase in your account is down to the risk you want to take with your trades....
Thanks luckylady,

If like they said, 40 pip a day is nothing difficult, and if one make 1 pip = 1% increase in account size. That means one can make 40% a day? More than 1000 times the original account in a month?

Is my calculation wrong?

cheers

kk007
  • #30
  • Oct 11, 2010 1:31pm Oct 11, 2010 1:31pm
Quoting kk007
Thanks luckylady,

If like they said, 40 pip a day is nothing difficult, and if one make 1 pip = 1% increase in account size. That means one can make 40% a day? More than 1000 times the original account in a month?

Is my calculation wrong?

cheers

kk007
I don't know too many people that would risk 1% on 1 pip but I suppose some scalpers do that have tiny stops. Traders in eohaters thread would typically have a 15-20 pip stop most times and risk around 2-3% per trade, so 15-20 would earn them around 2-3%, assuming they had mastered good entries, for someone else who didn't have the experience to get a good entry in order to have a 15 pip stop, then probably would have around a 30 pip stop with 2-3% per trade.
  • #31
  • Oct 11, 2010 1:51pm Oct 11, 2010 1:51pm
Quoting luckylady
I don't know too many people that would risk 1% on 1 pip but I suppose some scalpers do that have tiny stops. Traders in eohaters thread would typically have a 15-20 pip stop most times and risk around 2-3% per trade, so 15-20 would earn them around 2-3%, assuming they had mastered good entries, for someone else who didn't have the experience to get a good entry in order to have a 15 pip stop, then probably would have around a 30 pip stop with 2-3% per trade.
Thanks luckylady,

If one day I achieve the skill level that 40pip a day is for sure with no problem, like what a few here said,
I will make 1pip = 1% and try to 1000 times my account in a month. Even if it is just a demo account, it is a big achievement to me.

kk007
  • #32
  • Edited 2:18pm Oct 11, 2010 2:08pm | Edited 2:18pm
Quoting Fokusnik
........the guy who likes to count other people's money will never have his own money. Sad but true..........
Great quote!

There are so many questions (mainly in the Rookie forum) about "what returns are possible?". But the bottom line is that what one trader makes has absolutely no bearing on what another trader might be able to make.

As has been said, much of it depends on risk per trade; here are some other factors. In each case, everything else being equal:

-- PROFIT FACTOR: knowledge, proficiency and implementation (discipline etc) all contribute to profit factor: the amount returned for each unit placed at risk. Quoting return without reference to risk is essentially meaningless. PF is the product of win rate AND average RR: for example, using tighter SLs will increase your RR, but lower your win rate in like proportion; the trick is to find entry setups and/or trade management techniques that can shift this inherent balance into your favor.

-- RISK PER TRADE: The trader who risks 4% of his account will make double the return (significantly more, if he's compounding his results) of one who risks 2% per trade. (But the risk of encountering irretrievable drawdown is significantly more than doubled - risk of drawdown is an exponential function of trade risk). However, the higher your profit factor, the more risk you can justify mathematically: a win-win situation. A Monte Carlo type analysis (Google it) can help you establish the maximum you can safely risk per trade, within certain confidence levels, for a given PF.

-- TRADE FREQUENCY: The trader who can find 3 on-balance-profitable setups per day is going to massively outperform a trader who finds 3 per week. Rate of return can also be increased, without increasing risk, to whatever extent is possible to make simultaneous (or overlapping) non-correlated trades.

-- CAPITALIZATION: The trader with 100K in his account is obviously going to make more $$ than one who has 10K (of course we're talking $$, not %, here).

All of these factors are going to differ significantly from one trader to another.
In other words, one trader's 10% ROE per year average is a very satisfactory result.
While for another trader, an average of 10% per day MIGHT be entirely possible.

Hence I'd say that polls like this prove very little, even more so as (1) many people merely guess that 1% per day (for example) sounds feasible, while 10% sounds too good to be true, and poll accordingly; (2) others tend to cite what they've read that others claim that they're making, which (ego being what it is) may not even be true; (3) others cite a low amount because they can't bear to admit that there are traders out there who might be many times as successful as they are.
  • #33
  • Oct 11, 2010 2:20pm Oct 11, 2010 2:20pm
Just a sharing thread. Don't expect too much from it.

Quoting hanover
Great quote!

There are so many questions (mainly in the Rookie forum) about "what returns are possible?". But the bottom line is that what one trader makes has absolutely no bearing on what another trader might be able to make.

As has been said, much of it depends on risk per trade; here are some other factors. In each case, everything else being equal:

-- PROFIT FACTOR: knowledge, proficiency and implementation (discipline etc) all contribute to profit factor: the amount returned for each unit placed at risk. Quoting...
  • #34
  • Oct 11, 2010 2:41pm Oct 11, 2010 2:41pm
But one positive thing is: that thread expand my perception on what is possible (at least to me). Thanks to those who posted.
  • #35
  • Oct 11, 2010 8:42pm Oct 11, 2010 8:42pm
Quoting hanover
As has been said, much of it depends on risk per trade; here are some other factors. In each case, everything else being equal:

-- PROFIT FACTOR: knowledge, proficiency and implementation (discipline etc) all contribute to profit factor: the amount returned for each unit placed at risk. Quoting return without reference to risk is essentially meaningless. PF is the product of win rate AND average RR: for example, using tighter SLs will increase your RR, but lower your win rate in like proportion; the trick is to find entry...
hanover, great post!
  • #36
  • Oct 11, 2010 8:47pm Oct 11, 2010 8:47pm
Quoting kk007
There is nothing personal, but there is no logic in this statement. A wealthy person can be interested in how other make money.
I knew you would say something like this!

But I didn't say "The guy who is interested in how others make money".

I said: "The guy who likes to count other people's money",

HUGE difference!
  • #37
  • Oct 11, 2010 9:07pm Oct 11, 2010 9:07pm
Quoting Fokusnik
I knew you would say something like this!

But I didn't say "The guy who is interested in how others make money".

I said: "The guy who likes to count other people's money",

HUGE difference!
Ok. Ok. I just interested in how others make money. Nevermind.
  • #38
  • Oct 11, 2010 9:12pm Oct 11, 2010 9:12pm
Quoting kk007
Also, don't think I don't know the simple maths.
If I can set 1 pip = 1% or 10%, why I need anything more than 40 pip?
That's how people blow up their accounts...

I'm sure I said nothing about your math skills. But if you want to talk numbers - that's OK, let's talk numbers!

First of all, you can't set 1 pip = 10%, your broker wouldn't allow to do it. In the very beginning, when you just started demo-trading, have you ever seen the message "Not enough money"? That's what I'm talking about.

Let's make it really simple, let's forget about the spreads, the comissions and the swaps.

Let's say you have $1,000.00 and you want to trade 3 times per day with SL 15 pips and TP 20 pips. I think it is close enough to the Kostas' situation in the very beginning.

I don't know about your broker's margin etc., but let's say for the sake of the argument that trading 1.0 lot is equal $500.00. If you set 1 pip = 10%, that means that your 20 pips must bring 200% which is equal $2,000.00. That means that you have to trade 10.0 lots. But that means that your margin would be $5,000.00! NOT ENOUGH MONEY! You can't even set 1 pip = 2%!

In theory you can set 1 pip = 1%. Kostas says he wins 70% of the trades, and, of course, some his trades are break-even. But you are not as good as he is. Let's say for the sake of argument that you win 60% of the trades and lose 40%. It is still a very good percentage! So, if you trade 15 times per week, 9 of your trades would give you 20% profit and 6 of your trades would give you 15% loss. It is easy to calculate that with this percentage if you start a week with $1,000.00 you would end up with $1,946.00. That means 16-17 times per month, but not 1,000 times per month (like you think).

But it all would happen if you're very lucky and very skilled and you can produce this high percentage for 4 weeks. Chances are that in the very first 2-3 days you would have 3-4 losses in a row. 3 losses in a row would leave you with 60% of you account, 6 losses in a row would leave you with 35% of your account, and I don't think you would be able to recover after this.
  • #39
  • Oct 11, 2010 9:20pm Oct 11, 2010 9:20pm
Haha, I know you will say something like this. I have thought out of the box already. You know brokers are not the only source of leverage. Money can be borrowed from other source to further increase the leverage. If 40 pip per day is guaranteed, leveraging is not a problem.

Ok. I have not considered the possible drawdown, I have misunderstood that the drawdown is very small compared to 40 pip, if I or someone have achieved your level of skill. You know I have never be able to imagine to have 40 pip per day guaranteed, and if I have to imagine, my imagination may go too "wild".

Anyway, thank for sharing your upper limit for what is possible. lol

Quoting Fokusnik
First of all, you can't set 1 pip = 10%, your broker wouldn't allow to do it. In the very beginning, when you just started demo-trading, have you ever seen the message "Not enough money"? That's what I'm talking about.
  • #40
  • Oct 11, 2010 9:29pm Oct 11, 2010 9:29pm
Ask yourself if you see an edge in that system.
1 trader viewing now