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James16 is not credible

  • #1,001
  • Oct 7, 2010 5:51pm Oct 7, 2010 5:51pm
Quoting hanover
Without hard evidence, nobody can prove that J16 is a profitable trader, and nobody can prove that he's not.
While it is so easy for him to provide the proof, he doesn't and refuses without a sound reason. It is very obvious to me what is going on. I am not sure whether this is a hard evidence.

Quoting hanover
Apparently the efforts of the critics have been counter-productive.
Revealing the evidences, arguments and facts from both sides is the value of the thread.

Quoting hanover
There's one thing that I don't fully understand: why so many of the arrows are being fired at J16, when there are plenty of other commercial threads here, some of which are clearly VERY dubious. I expect that it's because it's widely known that his private forum is a success, which for some of his opponents has become a personal obsession.
The significance of the private forum is one reason. The highly suspcious trading ability (and self-claimed life and personality) of the PF owner is another.

Personally, I am not care about whether he earn money or not, I think it is good to have more transplancy on things going on.
  • #1,002
  • Oct 8, 2010 5:21am Oct 8, 2010 5:21am
well said, kk007

I fully agree.
The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that.
  • #1,003
  • Oct 8, 2010 7:47am Oct 8, 2010 7:47am

Excerpt of The Evolutionary Psychology of Envy (Sarah E. Hill and David M. Buss)


"Researchers have shown that envy-produced hostility typically manifests itself in indirect ways, such as derogation of the envied person to a third party (Salovey & Rodin, 1984; Silver & Sabini, 1978). Individuals are able to diminish the social effects of their competitors' advantage by making them appear less advantaged in the eyes of their peers and, more importantly, in the eyes of those who possess the resources for which the individuals must compete."


Funny how we humans will spend more time trying to make others look bad than put in the effort to improve ourselves, all in an effort to hide (or at least reduce the appearance of) our own shortcomings and inabilities.


Just an observation....

  • #1,004
  • Oct 8, 2010 8:10am Oct 8, 2010 8:10am
Quote
Ego involvement in understanding happens when people let the human side of them dictate their findings and how they view findings by other researchers. Those who are members of a researched group (e.g., sorority, family, or religion), for example, may find it difficult to explain what happens without bias; they would feel obligated to protect the "deep, dark secrets" of the group. They may feel compelled to justify even sinister behavior.
Ego involvement can also affect research on a person's "pet project." If I've just spent ten years developing...
http://sociology.camden.rutgers.edu/...ial/errors.htm
  • #1,005
  • Oct 8, 2010 9:11am Oct 8, 2010 9:11am
Quoting Slack
Response to dime store psychology retard
Is the name calling really necessary just because you don't agree with someone? So what if I thought a quote from an old textbook was interesting?

Here is another observation: I think that the anonymousness of the web has deteriorated many people's ability to respect one another when communicating remotely. It allows name calling and remarks to be made from the safety of a computer chair that would not be made in a face to face conversation. Granted, you see that more with younger people, but it is getting prevalent throughout the age groups. And that is a shame.....

Regardless of what you chose to call me, I still feel that ego and envy play a big role in most trading forums and cause many good traders to stay on the sidelines rather than subject themselvels to the harassment and ridicule of the people that find it difficult to admit someone else may be successful at something when they are not.

Just my 2 pips....
  • #1,006
  • Oct 8, 2010 1:22pm Oct 8, 2010 1:22pm
Quoting moneymaker2
Is the name calling really necessary just because you don't agree with someone? So what if I thought a quote from an old textbook was interesting?
Absolutely not, I just like using it, sometimes, for dramatic effect.

Quoting moneymaker2
Here is another observation: I think that the anonymousness of the web has deteriorated many people's ability to respect one another when communicating remotely. It allows name calling and remarks to be made from the safety of a computer chair that would not be made in a face to face conversation. Granted, you see that more with younger people, but it is getting prevalent throughout the age groups. And that is a shame.....
I agree, but I can assure you, what you see in my posts; the good, bad and ugly, is an accurate reflection. If anything, I might be slightly more confrontational in person.

Quoting moneymaker2
Regardless of what you chose to call me, I still feel that ego and envy play a big role in most trading forums and cause many good traders to stay on the sidelines rather than subject themselvels to the harassment and ridicule of the people that find it difficult to admit someone else may be successful at something when they are not.
No problem with your observation, only the source you chose. I have a great deal of disdain for the Psychology "professionals." after coming in close contact with 4 psychiatrists, 1 committed suicide, and 3 psychologists. At least one of the psychologists was open minded enough to allow me to challenge her beliefs and subsequently changed her mind/outlook.
  • #1,007
  • Oct 8, 2010 2:00pm Oct 8, 2010 2:00pm
Quoting kk007
While it is so easy for him to provide the proof, he doesn't and refuses without a sound reason......
If the absence of accounts is a red flag to you, then I can't argue with that. Skepticism can save a potential buyer a LOT of money, and I respect your opinion. BTW, does anybody know of ANY educator that provides audited accounts of his own trading?

Quoting hanover
Am I a cheerleader or a lapdog for J16? Is he my idol? I have no more vested interest other than the fact that he's provided me with a couple of concepts that have helped me develop my own method. I have no idea how profitable his own trading is, and it doesn't bother me. I'm posting merely because I believe some of the attacks against him here are unjust, illogical, and completely lacking in supporting evidence.
IMO it's dangerous to have 'idols' or role models, i.e. to believe that one person holds all of the answers, or that everything they say is correct. The only way to find out if an idea or technique is valuable, or - more importantly - if it's of value to you, given your own approach, personality, etc, is to test it for yourself.

Anyway, I'm starting to repeat comments I've made earlier, so I'll end it here. Bottom line is that newbies either pay for education, or try to piece it all together for themselves. It's a personal decision.
  • #1,008
  • Oct 8, 2010 6:36pm Oct 8, 2010 6:36pm
Quoting Slack
Absolutely not, I just like using it, sometimes, for dramatic effect.
Hats off to you for your candid honesty...I respect that!

Good trading to you...
  • #1,009
  • Oct 8, 2010 11:18pm Oct 8, 2010 11:18pm
Quoting onlydragon
Challenge to James16 Group

Professional doctors, teachers prove their skills by passing many examinations, tests … hence they get credit and respect from others … they are deserve to get high salary from society

In financial field, a degree only tells how good an economist is but it says nothing about trader’s ability. When talking about trader’s skill, we must see their bank’s statement or tax audit.

[b][color=#0070c0]Over a month we (skepticisms) persuaded,...
Still trying to figure out your angle here. Let me guess you thought you could make some easy money in forex. You stubbled across the James 16 thread skimmed through the 1st page and opened a live account and began to lose your shirt. So now your pissed, out for revenge because its not your fault. You figure (maybe) if anyone here is stupid enough to show you their statement you might be able to steal their money. Or maybe your not a crook. Your just trying to get James to throw you some winners so you can get your money back.

I would bet that for every 10 people that show success with James' method, or any other method, more than twice that number struggle. I've demoed several myself. IF YOU WOULD WORK JUST AS HARD FINDING YOUR METHOD AS YOU DO BASHING OTHERS THE SKY IS THE LIMITS FOR YOU MY FRIEND. Stop trying to get something for nothing. Why should I have to put in the work and struggle and you don't.

Forget, you'll probablely just respond to this with name calling and more rambling. But hell if we all agreed this world would be so freaking boring.
  • #1,010
  • Oct 15, 2010 4:38am Oct 15, 2010 4:38am
bump..?
  • #1,011
  • Edited 7:04am Oct 15, 2010 5:10am | Edited 7:04am
Quoting onlydragon
Challenge to James16 Group

Professional doctors, teachers prove their skills by passing many examinations, tests … hence they get credit and respect from others … they are deserve to get high salary from society

i wanted to add something here, if u need read up on trading u will find that trading offers a paradox against a belief system, in the way u think..a trader need to rewire the way he thinks about trades.

they are no rules, anything goes..so dont try and use normal society based principles to define a traders capabilities. (society is based on a rule system which is exempt in trading)

I just saying the rules are different, most qualified people in the world make bad traders because of there inability to accept being wrong. so u can see jim being compared to a doctor or a professional is wrong type of thinking
A chart to show of what can be achieved by his teachings

change yur focus on making yourself profitble instead of brickering about james success..this world has seriously lost the plot!!!!

I have posted a chart as i am a student of his teaching and have been with the grp for more than 1.5 years..so there is much to gain as the chart shows
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: chart2.jpg Size: 125 KB
  • #1,012
  • Nov 13, 2010 8:18am Nov 13, 2010 8:18am
Quoting hanover
BTW, does anybody know of ANY educator that provides audited accounts of his own trading?


No, because 99.9999 % of those "educators" CAN'T trade their way out of a paper bag.

Those who can, do ,those who can't, teach
  • #1,013
  • Nov 14, 2010 1:34am Nov 14, 2010 1:34am
Originally Posted by onlydragon View Post
Challenge to James16 Group

Professional doctors, teachers prove their skills by passing many examinations, tests … hence they get credit and respect from others … they are deserve to get high salary from society

In financial field, a degree only tells how good an economist is but it says nothing about trader’s ability. When talking about trader’s skill, we must see their bank’s statement or tax audit.
-------------

This is true. Take for example the Robbins world cup trading contest that Unger seems to be winning year after year. He opens 100 live real futures accounts for $15000 each and we are only informed about the 1 that made a profit. He makes his money by charging $200 per trade , which covers his losses on his 99 losing futures accounts.
  • #1,014
  • Nov 14, 2010 2:19am Nov 14, 2010 2:19am
Quoting Cocoflanel
No, because 99.9999 % of those "educators" CAN'T trade their way out of a paper bag.

Those who can, do ,those who can't, teach
To obtain a figure as accurate as 99.9999% means that 999,999 out of a million educators "can't trade their way out of a paper bag".

Could you please list these 999,999 educators here, along with your documented proof of each one's incompetence....... or failing that, admit that you simply made the number up, and have absolutely no supporting evidence?
  • #1,015
  • Nov 14, 2010 5:01am Nov 14, 2010 5:01am
Quoting hanover
To obtain a figure as accurate as 99.9999% means that 999,999 out of a million educators "can't trade their way out of a paper bag".

Could you please list these 999,999 educators here, along with your documented proof of each one's incompetence....... or failing that, admit that you simply made the number up, and have absolutely no supporting evidence?
Find me 1 , just 1 teacher,educator with an actual audited track record.....................
  • #1,016
  • Nov 14, 2010 5:27am Nov 14, 2010 5:27am
Quoting hanover
To obtain a figure as accurate as 99.9999% means that 999,999 out of a million educators "can't trade their way out of a paper bag".

Could you please list these 999,999 educators here, along with your documented proof of each one's incompetence....... or failing that, admit that you simply made the number up, and have absolutely no supporting evidence?
Why are you so harsh about his comment? He's simply mean that most of the trading educator outthere are just garbage - James16, Raghee Horner, Peter Bain,Ed Posni, Wayne McDonell, Rob Booker, Sam Seiden and the rest of his folks at onlinetradingacademy....... you name one....

Quoting Cocoflanel
Find me 1 , just 1 teacher,educator with an actual audited track record.....................
Mission impossible ??? If it's so hard to find a successful trader then it's so obvious harder to find a successful trader who willing to teach.

If James16 ever had a meaningful trading statement, we'd all see it, instead of all the crappy, nonsense proud list presented at the first page of his trading thread.
Trading is the game of fear and greed.
  • #1,017
  • Edited 6:24am Nov 14, 2010 5:53am | Edited 6:24am
Quoting Cocoflanel
Find me 1 , just 1 teacher,educator with an actual audited track record.....................
Sounds like you've been suckered into the thread's rhetoric. An audited track record is relevant only if you're thinking about investing money with a fund manager. And even that offers absolutely no guarantee of future profit. Moreover, a scammer could easily run several different accounts and have only the profitable ones audited and posted. Or he could run several Martingales, of which at least one might show a fantastic win rate for several months, which of course proves absolutely nothing. Unless newbies understand what they're looking at, or how the results have been framed, the track record is effectively worthless.

I've paid money to 4 or 5 educators and EVERY one of them has contributed ideas and techniques that have helped me to become profitable**. On that basis I'd score educators at 100%. Perhaps I'm simply a genius when it comes to picking the good ones from the snake-oil, LOL. Or more likely it's because I've made the effort to hone the concepts into something that's workably profitable for me. The problem, as I see it, is that most newbies want an instant, turnkey, paint-by-numbers system: "if an educator can't show me how to make 20% monthly on a consistent basis, within 3 months of my signing up, then he must be a scammer". With that attitude, it's hardly surprising that they blame the educator for what is really their own failure.

This thread, and indeed the whole commercial forum, seems to be going through a massive knee-jerk reaction to the Jacko debacle, and is now filled with negativity, suspicion and mass paranoia. "Jacko is a fraud, therefore EVERYBODY else must likewise be a fraud", is apparently the latest leap in naysayer logic. Next thing I expect to be reading is that attaining any kind of profit is totally impossible.

Bottom line is that you have to be willing to spend time, effort and money if you want to learn forex, but the effort is worth it. People say that you can learn for free by reading forums, but the vast majority of material posted is total garbage, and unless you're already an expert at sifting the gems from the junk, it will only set you backwards. Hence you can either spend the money on education, with the possibility that it will accelerate your learning curve, or by trying to teach yourself by testing system after system, and blowing live accounts in the process. Your choice.

[**NOTE: James16 is the only one of these who posts/advertises on Forex Factory].
  • #1,018
  • Nov 14, 2010 6:15am Nov 14, 2010 6:15am
Quoting Fx chartist
Why are you so harsh about his comment? He's simply mean that most of the trading educator outthere are just garbage - James16, Raghee Horner, Peter Bain,Ed Posni, Wayne McDonell, Rob Booker, Sam Seiden and the rest of his folks at onlinetradingacademy....... you name one....
With respect, I don't think I'm being overly harsh. If somebody is going to post an extraordinary statistic, then they should have evidence to back it up. If I say that I've got a system with a 99.9999% win rate, wouldn't you want to see proof?

Both James16 and Sam Seiden teach concepts that can be fashioned into a profitable system, IMO. There's an occasional attendee at our local TA group, who's been subscribed to Peter Bain's forexmentor for several months, and he's currently aiming for (and has been getting) 10% ROE per month. I don't have any knowledge or info on the other names that you've posted, as educators, although to be fair, I did read one of Raghee Horner's books and I wasn't that impressed.

Have a look at the educator ratings on a site like FPA and you'll see very polarized opinion there: many educators have plenty of 5 star ratings, and plenty of 1 star/SCAM ratings also. That tells me one of two things:

(1) That the educator teaches little of value, and the 5-star posters are merely enjoying beginner's luck; or

(2) That the material can be made to work profitably, but some students have the aptitude, diligence and perseverance to make it work for them, while others simply give up when they find that forex isn't as easy as they'd hoped. Then they post a negative review.

Personally, I think that (2) is the more likely reality. But you are welcome to differ.

I don't doubt that there are snake-oil salesmen out there, but let's not forget that the onus is on the student to evaluate what is being taught in the context of his own philosophy, lifetstyle (e.g. screen time), appetite for risk, etc, and apply himself to the task. No matter how knowledgeable an educator might be, it takes a lot of hard work and practise to become a proficient trader.
  • #1,019
  • Edited 8:50am Nov 14, 2010 6:30am | Edited 8:50am
Quoting Cocoflanel
Find me 1 , just 1 teacher,educator with an actual audited track record.....................
Ed Seykota ( from Market Wizards books and well known successful trader) educated and mentored Michael Marcus ;( took $30000 to 80 million ) see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael...s_%28trader%29

who in turn mentored and educated Bruce Kovner who is the Managing Director and Chairman of Caxton Associates, LLC, a 3.5 billion dollar hedge fund in New York.

Accuracy is very important to me when talking about statistics, because if we are not accurate the statistic is worse than meaningless, it is insidious in its misdirection.

Take for example the often quoted statistic that 95% of all retail traders fail; Well as it turns out, now that brokers have been compelled to publish their trader account profitability statistics, the number is more like 70 to 80 percent to as low as 50% ( at Oanda ). This is a very troubling thought to me. I was much happier with the 95% figure, because it meant that there was a larger pay out for me if a larger % fail. Now that I know that the number is lower by all accounts, I know that the available return is more diluted, because trading is a zero sum game, ( some would argue less than zero, but the point is the same ).

PS, Richard Donchian is the Trader that inspired (educated) Ed Seykota about mechanical trading methods. All of these people have audited and reported to the IRS financial histories.
  • #1,020
  • Nov 14, 2010 10:41am Nov 14, 2010 10:41am
Quoting smjones
Ed Seykota ( from Market Wizards books and well known successful trader)...
good post
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