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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #74,841
  • Sep 15, 2010 3:48am Sep 15, 2010 3:48am
Quoting anderou
The goals should not be monetary of nature please.

Examples could be- This week I will follow my trading rules exactly without any deviation from my trading plan.

-I will my make 3% return this week.

-I will make 150 pips this week.

-I will end the week with a profit, even if it is $1
Three of your four examples are monetary.

Quoting anderou
In doing this you put positive pressure on yourself to perform and not disappoint. This is a very powerful way of learning about yourself and I have been implementing this for very long now.
And if there are no trades that week, you dont hit your 'goal' and automatically fail? Or do you force bad trades to try and hit your arbitary goal?
When you have to shoot, shoot. Dont talk.
  • #74,842
  • Sep 15, 2010 4:26am Sep 15, 2010 4:26am
Good replies..

Quoting joelcf
Three of your four examples are monetary.
i knew there was a good chance u'd noticed that

i/we know anderou shared that approach & meant well.
but the best approach,imho, would be to concentrate on trading well.

Goal: trading excellence rather than profit excellence.
  • #74,843
  • Sep 15, 2010 4:46am Sep 15, 2010 4:46am
Quoting joelcf
Three of your four examples are monetary.



And if there are no trades that week, you dont hit your 'goal' and automatically fail? Or do you force bad trades to try and hit your arbitary goal?
I am sorry joelcf, but none of them are monetary to the extent of a dollar figure,

Pips become a monetary dollar figure when you attach your trade size to your stated goal.

A percentage becomes a monetary dollar figure when you give info about your account size.

Saying you just want to be profitable to the extent of $1 for a week doesn't give any real insight of your account size or your income and can be very good for self esteem for a person who has been in a losing streak.

I was trying to make the process more comfortable for people to share by removing a dollar figure(monetary) goal from the equation. Sure these goals will obviously have an effect on your monetary performance but this will be confidential if done how I intend.

Secondly about pushing bad trades.

GOALS ARE NOT ONLY ABOUT TRADES. It is far more psychological than that. Your goal can be to follow your rules, to stay positive in bad times, to learn to handle good and bad trades, to get the administrative side of your trading up to scratch. -None of these mentioned will make you push bad trades to make a goal.

In having such a narrow view of goals is not a very good thing joel. Sorry If I sound rude. But I know for sure having any type of goal is better than none, and seeing the response on my innitial post worries me about some of the members goals managment.

If you trade weekly candles you CAN STILL have daily and weekly goals. I made sure the goals I made an example of in my innitial post covered most aspects, ie.

Pip value- market movement, trade analysing- technical

Profit of $1- making 1 dollar, after being in a loss for a long time, daytrading- psychological.

Following your rules- discipline, self control,- being a complete trader (on all levels).

I hope this clears the confusion. I am a very positive guy and love opinions. But sometimes one must maybe read something, and sit back, and think. Some tend to look at a members post count, and think he knows nothing. I urge you to read my innitial post again, but this time look at it again from the mouth of a seasoned successful trader, I think it might make more sense then.
Thank you j16!
  • #74,844
  • Sep 15, 2010 4:53am Sep 15, 2010 4:53am
Quoting anderou
..none of them are monetary to the extent of a dollar figure,
Pips become a monetary dollar figure when you attach your trade size to your stated goal.
A percentage becomes a monetary dollar figure when you give info about your account size.....
Oh, i see.
this is another issue that is a matter of perspective.

if this is so, then i believe most do not share or most are not experienced enough to have this 'elevated' perspective which u have.
  • #74,845
  • Sep 15, 2010 5:07am Sep 15, 2010 5:07am
Quoting supremeChaos
Oh, i see.
this is another issue that is a matter of perspective.

if this is so, then i believe most do not share or most are not experienced enough to have this 'elevated' perspective which u have.
Don't get me wrong,

Trading is about making money right? Every guy here knows how much he makes or loses with his trading. So goals can also be(apart from pscychological, administrative, rule following etc.) about money. But monetary goals are only 1pillar in a few of goals management. Having a pip goal or percentage goal is about money if you keep it to yourself.

(This might explain.)

But by sharing your goal(if it is about pips, or %) without the info of an account balance it becomes so much more. For a daytrader(which many guys tend to be) it becomes drive, it becomes a motivational tool, sure he knows what 3percent means to his account in dollar terms, but that's a small part of it. He will gain so much more in positive pressure by sharing his goal. And nobody knows what he made apart from the 3% figure, which means zero to anybody if they don't know his acc balance.

does this help?
Thank you j16!
  • #74,846
  • Sep 15, 2010 5:10am Sep 15, 2010 5:10am
Quoting anderou
I am sorry joelcf, but none of them are monetary to the extent of a dollar figure,
They might not have a dollar sign in front of them, but they are all effectively monetary goals. To argue otherwise is splitting hairs. Stating z pips or y% is the same as a dollar goal, given standard money management (x%) and a given account size. Other people might not know what that dollar figure is, but I also doubt many here would really care

Quoting anderou
GOALS ARE NOT ONLY ABOUT TRADES. It is far more psychological than that. Your goal can be to follow your rules, to stay positive in bad times, to learn to handle good and bad trades, to get the administrative side of your trading up to scratch. -None of these mentioned will make you push bad trades to make a goal.
I have no issues with these goals. They are all beneficial, if somewhat vague. My issue was only with setting arbitary financial performance targets that potentially could cause overtrading - or at the very least, reinforce bad behaviour.

Having goals is all well and good, as long as they are things people can work towards and achieve. How do you work towards a pip/%R target? You take more trades, make more profit on each trade, or a combination thereof. Assuming you arent being lazy/inattentive and missing trades (which is a whole seperate problem) or screwing up your exits (again, a seperate problem that one could specifically work on), neither of those are within your control.

Quoting anderou
In having such a narrow view of goals is not a very good thing joel. Sorry If I sound rude. But I know for sure having any type of goal is better than none, and seeing the response on my innitial post worries me about some of the members goals managment.
Not rude at all

If using that kind of structure helps people enforce some self discipline or makes them analyse their trades more thoroughly, then great.


Quoting anderou
But sometimes one must maybe read something, and sit back, and think. Some tend to look at a members post count, and think he knows nothing. I urge you to read my innitial post again, but this time look at it again from the mouth of a seasoned successful trader, I think it might make more sense then.
I never assumed you knew nothing - I remember your username from an earlier post about traffic on a cad chart which indicated otherwise. Postcount on FF means very little - I've seen some complete retards outside this thread with thousands of (useless) posts.. hell, ive racked up almost 700 without sayin much useful at all
When you have to shoot, shoot. Dont talk.
  • #74,847
  • Sep 15, 2010 5:10am Sep 15, 2010 5:10am
Quoting anderou
I am a very positive guy andlove opinions. But sometimes one must maybe read something, and sit back, and think. Some tend to look at a members post count, and think he knows nothing. I urge you to read my innitial post again, but this time look at it again from the mouth of a seasoned successful trader, I think it might make more sense then.
Dude, take it easy!
Different folks, different views! Nothing wrong with that. 10 people can read the same thing and come to different conclusion.
  • #74,848
  • Sep 15, 2010 5:16am Sep 15, 2010 5:16am
Quoting anderou
Don't get me wrong,

Trading is about making money right? Every guy here knows how much he makes or loses with his trading. So goals can also be(apart from pscychological, administrative, rule following etc.) about money. But monetary goals are only 1pillar in a few of goals management. Having a pip goal or percentage goal is about money if you keep it to yourself....
Hi Anderou

, the thing is that some goals take ages to sort out because the solution takes ages to find

whilst your suggestion sounds workable, anybody who has done a trading plan i.e Tim Wilcox will already know their strengths and weaknesses and should be working on them

Anthony
  • #74,849
  • Sep 15, 2010 5:30am Sep 15, 2010 5:30am
I guess my idea about goal sharing is not going to take off. But I really hope this conversation atleast makes one trader realize the importance of goals management. Thanks for all the opinions. I realise that the way I stated some of the facts may have misled some on different aspects of perspective around monetary figures.

The whole idea was not to force people to make goals. But helping people have a set of goals they follow, and ticking off every one.

Here is the exact list that I keep in my journal:

-Follow your rules exactly(rules are kept in different journal)
-Take A+ setups
-Keep my admin of trades updated daily
-Stay positive
-Make x% per week(I daytrade exclusively)
-Handle trade emotion constructively and make notes on it

Joel, I really respect you. Thanks for showing the other side of the coin I tossed.

My little list(minus the x%) can work for everyone. Hope you guys also have a list implemented.

Sorry for maybe unintentionally making the mood in here a bit tense.
Thank you j16!
  • #74,850
  • Sep 15, 2010 5:30am Sep 15, 2010 5:30am
oh crappy internet.

anderou,
i was supposed to put this as an additional post 10-15minutes ago:


just read your whole post (first lengthy post).
imho, all the replies had merits.
in fairness, joel asked sensible questions.
like i said, this is a matter of perspective. we have different perspectives. if u try to push your perspective to others & dismiss perspectives of other people, then we will have a problem.
& based on the replies, no one insinuated that they were looking down on you nor your post count. people in this thread are of a different breed & u will notice that sooner or later.

(i now have read all your posts up to this point &)
make no mistake, your points/approach were taken well.
Please keep speaking your mind & keep posting charts!
  • #74,851
  • Sep 15, 2010 5:51am Sep 15, 2010 5:51am
Quoting joelcf
Postcount on FF means very little - I've seen some complete retards outside this thread with thousands of (useless) posts..
im one of them (i post outside too, lol)

Quote
hell, ive racked up almost 700 without sayin much useful at all
of course, that's what u think.
(imho) we do not have the luxury or talent to acquire the knowledge which u have acquired/inherently have, at your current age
  • #74,852
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:15am Sep 15, 2010 7:15am
I think I am finally getting in the mindset to "wait for best setups", to observe pairs and so on.
This style should do very well with me as I don't have to babysit trades like a daytrader (plus I don't know a single daytrader who profits enough to earn a living and can prove it).

Still, I have a very pressing question that I don't know how to solve.
Is here anyone living in Europe, that has a regular job and still manages to trade?
Regular jobs have this nasty attitude at overlapping the good trading hours (they fire me if I trade at work) so I end up having from 4pm GMT to 10pm GMT as only times I can start my platform and trade.
Is here anyone who manages to trade in these "after hours" and is profitable? Is there a particular pair that stays somewhat active and forms pins, beobs etc? Or should I just give up? I'd really prefer to trade because I like it a lot.

In case it's possible, how would I manage the setups, since I am probably going to be asleep or at work when I should actively look for break even & move stop loss?
  • #74,853
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:20am Sep 15, 2010 7:20am
Quoting dfumagalli
I think I am finally getting in the mindset to "wait for best setups", to observe pairs and so on.
This style should do very well with me as I don't have to babysit trades like a daytrader (plus I don't know a single daytrader who profits enough to earn a living and can prove it).

Still, I have a very pressing question that I don't know how to solve.
Is here anyone living in Europe, that has a regular job and still manages to trade?
Regular jobs have this nasty attitude at overlapping the good trading hours (they fire me if I trade at work)...
This is a concern of my trading the daily charts. Not so easy to avoid a full bar loss if price moves against you during peak trading hours which often happens.
  • #74,854
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:21am Sep 15, 2010 7:21am
Anyone smell intervention of BOJ on the USD/JPY?
  • #74,855
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:22am Sep 15, 2010 7:22am
Quoting anderou
I think we should implement something like that here on the j-16 thread, all
You catch the drift.. In doing this you put positive pressure on yourself to perform and not disappoint. This is a very powerful way of learning about yourself and I have been implementing this for very long now. I can say with absolute confidence it will help everyone here regardless of where you are at in your forex journey.

We could then report on our goals and set new ones for the next week every sunday.

What do you guys think?

I will be doing this around...
Sounds like an idea for a new thread!



fxtsun
___________________________________
"Chance favours the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur
  • #74,856
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:25am Sep 15, 2010 7:25am
Some nice oppertunities on the lower TF. Break of asian high which acts as support now confirmed by 15m-BUOB, buy the dip in the strong uptrend on the 15m-TF, FTA intraday high @ 13285.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Pipcrawler
  • #74,857
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:30am Sep 15, 2010 7:30am
Quoting Hitchhiker
Anyone smell intervention of BOJ on the USD/JPY?
You haven't been reading the news, have you?
http://www.forexlive.com/tag/japan
If you don't risk, you don't ever have to lose.
  • #74,858
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:37am Sep 15, 2010 7:37am
Quoting bug
You haven't been reading the news, have you?
http://www.forexlive.com/tag/japan
Just logged on in my lunch break. You would have thought it could have been carried out less transparently?.
  • #74,859
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:45am Sep 15, 2010 7:45am
Quoting Hitchhiker
Just logged on in my lunch break. You would have thought it could have been carried out less transparently?.
The 'in you face' effect is just what they want to achieve to keep 'speculators' away from pushing up the yen. Being public about it is just what is needed - that way the 'evil speculators' know that every attempt to push the yen higher will be met with billions of yen on the way. I wouldn't want to divert this thread from its main topic so if you're interested, come join us in the UJ thread.
If you don't risk, you don't ever have to lose.
  • #74,860
  • Sep 15, 2010 7:51am Sep 15, 2010 7:51am
Quoting dfumagalli
I think I am finally getting in the mindset to "wait for best setups", to observe pairs and so on.
This style should do very well with me as I don't have to babysit trades like a daytrader (plus I don't know a single daytrader who profits enough to earn a living and can prove it).

Still, I have a very pressing question that I don't know how to solve.
Is here anyone living in Europe, that has a regular job and still manages to trade?
Regular jobs have this nasty attitude at overlapping the good trading hours (they fire me if I trade at work)...
I would suggest that you do a bit of becktesting on daily timeframes. You will not be able to daytrade obviously, so daily and weekly will have to do. Is it possible for you to get a broker that closes their daily bar at midnight est? If you are in europe you will be +- gmt right? So having a broker that closes daily bars at midnight it would give you a chance to take trades early in the morning before work..
Back to backtesting, you will see if you backtest major currencies on daily timeframes that with most setups you will only have to monitor on the daily time frame. You can check trades and move sl's after work..

I know many seniors only monitor their trades on the same time frame as entered on.

So basically,

1. Sort out your broker
2. Backtest and gain confidence in the setups
3. Begin trading on the daily and weekly with small postions
3b. Monitor positions after work (4-10.)
4. Quit your job once very profitable(kidding)

Listen up. It can be done. All you have to do is get your game plan right.
And about daytraders being profitable, I know quite a few. But searching for proof is futile. Rather concentrate on your tarding.

Hope this helps you a bit.
Thank you j16!
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