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No more BS - What have you learned?

  • #301
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:21pm Sep 14, 2010 8:21pm
Quoting Deusomega
I wish all the vouches had stayed hehe.

Could send them all a SUCKER message then


Clearstation ( I wonder if that still exists ), you used to post your live stock trades on it, so you could see if you liked the persons trades and follow them if you wished, Quisp was 1 of the best traders I've ever seen, taught me a lot about stocks.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #302
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:28pm Sep 14, 2010 8:28pm
Quoting Czech
Thanks for once again choosing to respond to the most insignificant point in my post! I've read about 80% of the J16 thread,...
SUCKER I got about 2 pages in before thinking this is all rubbish, sorry anyone who preaches you must trade on a 4H chart like it's something special is not a good trader.

Predictive, when you try to predict where a top / bottom will be, none of my trades are predictive, I run purely off the direction I don't know / care if it moves 1pip before changing or 40 ( okay I prefer 40 ), if it moves 40 I try to hold for the 40, if it moves 1, I take a small hit.

I don't want to be the be all or end all, I just want to make money and replace my other incomes in time, no hurry, had 8 months off, just getting back into it slowly, 8 trades no loser +41.8 pips isn't a bad day
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #303
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:29pm Sep 14, 2010 8:29pm
Quoting Turveyd
S/R is not a good edge, statistically it's poor, and it makes you place trends against the trend, yes it holds sometimes, but when it doesn't it generally fails badly and very quickly.

Sorry J16 traders are classed as Scam I've read his stuff and don't believe a word of it.

And ofcourse you can't win them all, sometimes the direction changes right after you get in, could be a good entry, and a good exit is to get out with the min of loss, without letting it run cause thats risky.
Turveyd,

Saying that support and resistance doesn't give you an edge is like saying having an AK-47 in your hands won't give you an edge against the punk breaking in your front door who is armed with only a knife. Just because you don't know which end of the gun to point at the perpetrator doesn't mean an AK-47 won't blow his head off.

The statistics you talk about are only your statistics of your trades. Using a very good tool does not make you choose bad trades. Only you and your lack of knowledge about how to use this tool leads you into a bad trade.

Misunderstanding the tools of trading is rampant on this and other forums. Buying a gun without the bullets won't keep you from being mugged.

Johnny
  • #304
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:29pm Sep 14, 2010 8:29pm
Quoting Czech

j16 traders are classified as a scam by morons. Seriously, reconsider how he benefits from giving you a free system.
I just couldn't help myself from commenting on this particular point. I would think it's fairly obvious how he benefits from giving away a "free system".

He does it for the same reason that companies give trials to products. It reels in the potential consumer and gets them wanting to see the "real deal" ie commercial site access.

You might say well if anyone took the time to go over the material then well they could trade profitably from it alone and never need the commercial side of things... but oh contrare mon frere you see that isn't normal human nature is it?

Normal human nature is to want something now. I WANT TO LEARN TO TRADE PROFITABLY NOW! I DON'T WANT TO SPEND TIME DIGGING THROUGH THIS 5,000 PAGE THREAD! IMMEDIACY!

Gimme the cave of treasures! *types in CC#*

Ching Ching

It's not like building up a thread full of charts and content is a normal ploy of businessmen on FF........
  • #305
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:30pm Sep 14, 2010 8:30pm
Quoting Turveyd
Although true I still say a lot of people wouldn't be such losers if sites like this didn't fill there heads with crappolo. We all came here after instant easy riches, 6years in and I'm still working on this dream
You are still working on your dream and that is great. The forex venture however is one of self discovery more than most people would care to admit. Having said that, may i make a suggestion. You need to keep an open mind. If something does not work for you, it does not mean that it is useless or that it does not work for someone else. S/R is one of the most widely used tools in technical trading. It is widely discretionary however and could be used in a variety of ways. It did not work for you, perhaps because you could not find a way to apply it successfully. And that's ok. There are other ways to analyze the markets and be successful. But to say that something is crap just because it does not work for you is very close minded. There is no right or wrong in forex, there is only what works or does not work for you. At least when it comes to the tools we use.
Stubbornly persistent
  • #306
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:35pm Sep 14, 2010 8:35pm
Quoting JohnnyBSmart
Turveyd,

Saying that support and resistance doesn't give you an edge is like saying having an AK-47 in your hands won't give you an edge against the punk breaking in your front door who is armed with only a knife. Just because you don't know which end of the gun to point at the perpetrator doesn't mean an AK-47 won't blow his head off.

The statistics you talk about are only your statistics of your trades. Using a very good tool does not make you choose bad trades. Only you and your lack of knowledge about how to use this tool leads you into a...
Not just my trading, actual stat's of S/R levels reversing and other issues.

For instance, if your going long at Support, then the market must of went down to get there right ?? which means the markets direction at that time is, yep down, so it's forcing you to buy counter trend, thats the biggest issue with S/R based system.

Yes, the market will turn sometimes, other times it'll chop around on the S/R then break it and drop 40pips blowing through your SL level.

EJ just jumped over 100pips while I typed this
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #307
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:40pm Sep 14, 2010 8:40pm
Quoting sergiu
You are still working on your dream and that is great. The forex venture however is one of self discovery more than most people would care to admit. Having said that, may i make a suggestion. You need to keep an open mind. If something does not work for you, it does not mean that it is useless or that it does not work for someone else. S/R is one of the most widely used tools in technical trading. It is widely discretionary however and could be used in a variety of ways. It did not work for you, perhaps because you could not find a way to apply...
My mind is open, your mind isn't open to it being potentially useles.

Yes it's widely used, but on the basis no body except for a few momentum players is making any money, ever consider S/R trading and trying to predict tops and bottoms which is forces you to do is a main contributor to EVERYONE on here losing there money ??

It's not about me, me Stat's expert + objective scientist, draw the lines do the maths it's the only way you'll see what I see. But be objective!!
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #308
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:44pm Sep 14, 2010 8:44pm
Quoting Turveyd
Not just my trading, actual stat's of S/R levels reversing and other issues.

For instance, if your going long at Support, then the market must of went down to get there right ?? which means the markets direction at that time is, yep down, so it's forcing you to buy counter trend, thats the biggest issue with S/R based system.

Yes, the market will turn sometimes, other times it'll chop around on the S/R then break it and drop 40pips blowing through your SL level.

EJ just jumped over 100pips while I typed this
Every trend has retracements, some smaller some larger. You do not need to use S/R to enter counter trend. In a downtrend, you could wait for the price to retrace to the nearest resistance level, and enter with the trend. Again, it is not the tools, but how we use them. The above statement just shows how ignorant you are to the issue, yet you are so quick to dismiss S/R as a viable trading tool.
Stubbornly persistent
  • #309
  • Edited 8:48pm Sep 14, 2010 8:47pm | Edited 8:48pm
Quoting Turveyd
My mind is open, your mind isn't open to it being potentially useles.

Yes it's widely used, but on the basis no body except for a few momentum players is making any money, ever consider S/R trading and trying to predict tops and bottoms which is forces you to do is a main contributor to EVERYONE on here losing there money ??

It's not about me, me Stat's expert + objective scientist, draw the lines do the maths it's the only way you'll see what I see. But be objective!!
And how exactly do yo know no one is making money. Have you talked to everyone using it. Or is this just a silly assumption and you are throwing it out there hoping that it would give more wait to your feeble arguments.
Stubbornly persistent
  • #310
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:51pm Sep 14, 2010 8:51pm
Quoting sergiu
Every trend has retracements, some smaller some larger. You do not need to use S/R to enter counter trend. In a downtrend, you could wait for the price to retrace to the nearest resistance level, and enter with the trend. Again, it is not the tools, but how we use them. The above statement just shows how ignorant you are to the issue, yet you are so quick to dismiss S/R as a viable trading tool.
But if it retraces to the nearest resistance level, then the direction to get there is up so yet again up, thats still counter trend.

If your smart you'll wait for it to turn back down, but they if it turns up again your S/R line is still there so you'll HOPE that will hold and because you waited and got a lower price your loss is just bigger.

We could go all night, I'm a old Pro, look at my V's ( LOL thats a JOKE ).

Direction Trumps everything, S/R holds @35% of the time.

If you can, see the market is going up, go long then your the perfect trader, that is all there is to trading, anything else is BS.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #311
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:53pm Sep 14, 2010 8:53pm
  •  Czech
  • | Joined Feb 2010 | Status: You Don't Know What You Don't Know | 111 Posts
Quoting Deusomega
I just couldn't help myself from commenting on this particular point. I would think it's fairly obvious how he benefits from giving away a "free system".
If we're gna turn it into a j16 thread then i'm glad you brought this up!
Quote
He does it for the same reason that companies give trials to products. It reels in the potential consumer and gets them wanting to see the "real deal" ie commercial site access.
Now actually follow the progression of the thread up till the PF was created. The PF came about because people demanded it. Because trying to follow 8 different sub-points in one thread is ridiculous. And because one person trying to tend to every question raised, himself, is impossible. Theres more! but we can cross that bridge if we get there.

Quote
You might say well if anyone took the time to go over the material then well they could trade profitably from it alone and never need the commercial side of things... but oh contrare mon frere you see that isn't normal human nature is it?

Normal human nature is to want something now. I WANT TO LEARN TO TRADE PROFITABLY NOW! I DON'T WANT TO SPEND TIME DIGGING THROUGH THIS 5,000 PAGE THREAD! IMMEDIACY!
Obviously you're right with that line of thinking. But take into consideration my points above and add onto that, that J16 himself maintains you do not NEED the PF and insists that no one join before at least getting through the free info here. What else can he say?

How would you better solve those problems highlighted without looking like a scam? The PF isn't advertised at all or even talked about unless you really dig around.

Turveyd, there can be 20 tops and bottoms in one day with every instrument. He never says the 4h is special. I see you gave it a close look! I'm glad that following the trend has worked out for you and i wish you much profits. I hope one day you draw the distinction between what is possible for you and what is possible. You keep completely missing my point with that.

edit: i'd just like to add that, as with all momentum based systems, J16 benefits from more traders trading with him.
  • #312
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:54pm Sep 14, 2010 8:54pm
Quoting sergiu
And how exactly do yo know no one is making money. Have you talked to everyone using it. Or is this just a silly assumption and you are throwing it out there hoping that it would give more wait to your feeble arguments.
Jacko was all about S/R I believe, he failed, which means all of his gang likely also failed. ( okay someone failing doesn't prove it, but my Stat's DO )

There are very very few people on this thread which are profitable ( not me currently, but doing okay ), the people which are have cut through the BS and aren't using S/R.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #313
  • Sep 14, 2010 8:55pm Sep 14, 2010 8:55pm
Quoting Turveyd
We could go all night, I'm a old Pro
I'm sorry, I thought you have no clue. But now that I know you are pro I'll just shut up. Can't argue with the "Pros"
Stubbornly persistent
  • #314
  • Sep 14, 2010 9:00pm Sep 14, 2010 9:00pm
Quoting Czech

Turveyd, there can be 20 tops and bottoms in one day with every instrument. He never says the 4h is special. I see you gave it a close look! I'm glad that following the trend has worked out for you and i wish you much profits. I hope one day you draw the distinction between what is possible for you and what is possible. You keep completely missing my point with that.
S/R fails in back testing not talking about live trading here, it has no merit yes this is my opinion, if I had my workings out here to show you, you wouldn't believe them or you'd think of some way to use them I haven't, not likely by the way

At no point have you said " Hey it's working for me and I'm making money " your using it and your not are you ?? come on be honest ??

S/R I used for trading Stocks, works well, but Forex is to news led and well chaos compared to stocks, it's not the place for such strategys.

Check EJ, was downtrending nicely then BANG up 150pips already.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #315
  • Sep 14, 2010 9:03pm Sep 14, 2010 9:03pm
Quoting sergiu
I'm sorry, I thought you have no clue. But now that I know you are pro I'll just shut up. Can't argue with the "Pros"

I think you'll find a Professional by definition is someone that makes a living doing it, by my own admission I'm not, although since dropping all the BS taught on here, I'm doing much much better.

There are better ways, just trust me as a trader trying to help another trader and study what your doing objectively and prove to yourself that S/R works, or not, I don't care if you believe me or not, it's your money after all.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #316
  • Sep 14, 2010 9:06pm Sep 14, 2010 9:06pm
Quoting Czech
If we're gna turn it into a j16 thread then i'm glad you brought this up!
Now actually follow the progression of the thread up till the PF was created. The PF came about because people demanded it. Because trying to follow 8 different sub-points in one thread is ridiculous. And because one person trying to tend to every question raised, himself, is impossible. Theres more! but we can cross that bridge if we get there.

Obviously you're right with that line of thinking. But take into consideration my points above and add onto that, that J16 himself...
People always "demand" commercial services every scam on here started with a bunch of "members emailed me and we are going forward to move offsite and really tend to your guy's needs!"

And also you can tend to everyone's questions just fine through private messages and the thread on this site! And all his helpers can still message just fine afterall the PF is just a messageboard as well.

Last point. The 1st post of the thread advertises the PF. His profile link has the link. Not too hard to find eh?

But really idc my first post was merely pointing out that vouches have no credibility at all.
  • #317
  • Sep 14, 2010 9:12pm Sep 14, 2010 9:12pm
Quoting Deusomega
People always "demand" commercial services every scam on here started with a bunch of "members emailed me and we are going forward to move offsite and really tend to your guy's needs!"

And also you can tend to everyone's questions just fine through private messages and the thread on this site! And all his helpers can still message just fine afterall the PF is just a messageboard as well.

Last point. The 1st post of the thread advertises the PF. His profile link has the link. Not too hard to find eh?

But really idc my first post was merely...

He could setup a free message board, where only he can post kinda and all can read, exactly what he's got here, with no need to charge $30 per month is it ?? you likely think $30 is nothing, but likely bringing him in $30,000 per month just from FF, he's likely doing it on all Forex Sites.

Not disagreeing with you here by the way supporting

I'd dump the entire vouch system, it's a good idea kinda, but in practice it just does not work, you get vouches for agreeing with people when they match what you think, which is fine, if what you think is right, if wrong then it's a -V really.

Ohhh EJ nearly 200pips, why did I close FXCM
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #318
  • Sep 14, 2010 9:17pm Sep 14, 2010 9:17pm
Quoting Turveyd
He could setup a free message board, where only he can post kinda and all can read, exactly what he's got here, with no need to charge $30 per month is it ?? you likely think $30 is nothing, but likely bringing him in $30,000 per month just from FF, he's likely doing it on all Forex Sites.

Not disagreeing with you here by the way supporting

I'd dump the entire vouch system, it's a good idea kinda, but in practice it just does not work, you get vouches for agreeing with people when they match what you think, which is fine, if what you think...
Try $129 a month

After paying his helpers I'd say he makes real nice coin. No need to manage risk and trade.
  • #319
  • Sep 14, 2010 9:17pm Sep 14, 2010 9:17pm
No offence guys but theres other threads rthat discuss the vouch system and weather or not J16 is a scam

We could debate about it all day - no need to apologise just reminding you of the thread topic
Time hides Nothing
  • #320
  • Sep 14, 2010 9:21pm Sep 14, 2010 9:21pm
Quoting CindyXXXX
No offence guys but theres other threads rthat discuss the vouch system and weather or not J16 is a scam

We could debate about it all day - no need to apologise just reminding you of the thread topic
Sorry for going offtopic Cindy

I'm all done on the mini rant
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