If they are so profitable, why they accept students for fee? | Page 2 | Forex Factory

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If they are so profitable, why they accept students for fee?

  • #21
  • Sep 8, 2010 5:06am Sep 8, 2010 5:06am
Quoting kermut
Not sure if the premise of your argument is correct or not. Quite some time ago, a very respected trader- Darkstar, decided to take on 1 student to teach him everything he knew, and it was for free. He got all potential candidate to pm him as to why they were suitable and he chose his candidate. I think the chosen candidate would not have asked him to show some bank statements, or some sort of proof he was a profitable trader etc.

Like I said, it was a long time ago, even I applied but was unsuccesful.

Regards,
K.
Obviously, the case you mentioned do not belong to the issue discussing on this thread.
  • #22
  • Sep 8, 2010 6:02pm Sep 8, 2010 6:02pm
Quoting kk007
Obviously, the case you mentioned do not belong to the issue discussing on this thread.
Thought it was, because your question was why would someone who is so profitable trading take on students for free/fee?

If this was not your question, then I am sorry for the inconvinience.

Regards,
K.
  • #23
  • Sep 8, 2010 6:22pm Sep 8, 2010 6:22pm
Everybody can teach S/R,Fibonacci,Candles,breakouts and all the other TA or indicator stuff.

Real traders have an edge, the understanding und knowlege how markets work,what to look at and how to monitor it.
That's why they don't teach and keep their secrets.
  • #24
  • Sep 8, 2010 6:30pm Sep 8, 2010 6:30pm
There are two possible reasons:
1. To gain respect which will reflect on their personality and makes them trade better.
2. To refine their skills further: When someone teachs something first he/she has to prepare materials to teach, then he/she gets different kinds of questions some of which is repetitive and worthless but few are very smart and elighten them to new paths or trading techniques.
  • #25
  • Sep 8, 2010 7:20pm Sep 8, 2010 7:20pm
Quoting kermut
Thought it was, because your question was why would someone who is so profitable trading take on students for free/fee?

If this was not your question, then I am sorry for the inconvinience.

Regards,
K.
Oh. For "fee" and for "free" are two completely different stories. How can they be mixed up???
  • #26
  • Sep 8, 2010 10:16pm Sep 8, 2010 10:16pm
Quoting kk007
Oh. For "fee" and for "free" are two completely different stories. How can they be mixed up???
My bad. Sorry, I should have read the thread title a bit more carefully. Got 2 threads mixed up.

Ok, the one reason I can think of for charging a fee is that most people believe in "you get what you pay for". ie if they were being offered mentoring for free, then they would place that much importance to it, ie hardly any. However, if they paid for it, then they would place more importance, and also more effort, concentration etc into it.

I knew of one trader who used to mentor students for a while, had a service for his fee(fee wasn't huge, but a reasonable amt), had to sign non-disclosure agreements etc. But at the end of the mentoring term, he would actually refund the money. His arugement was that because the student has paid money, the student has a some sort of sense of obligation to make 110% effort. If he didn't charge, then he would be getting the sort of people who weren't serious at making this work for them, and a lot of time wasters. He was an exception to the rule though.

However, personally, if I was able to find a profitable trader who I could meet up in person with, and who traded the way I trade, I would definitely pay money(if needed) to have the chance to have even just 1 meeting with him.

Regards,
K.
  • #27
  • Sep 9, 2010 8:12am Sep 9, 2010 8:12am
Another branch of this is, can anyone truly put a value on education, especially something so valuable as that from a profitable trader? For this reason I believe the best teachers combine this with the fact that they already have attained their goals and simply do not want or need to put a value on their time in the same way as they would if they felt more reliant on said income.

This is why there are plenty of real teachers on here, compare the difference with commercial, more secretive teachers, the list is endless but some that come to mind are ken lee, igrok, eohater, jankone, ryanmcd, shamus, mal, hidden gap, and tons and tons more

Truth is the info is out there and you can hire whatever you want or read all the free info you want it makes zero difference because, unless they're gonna trade for you, it really does come down to you at the end of the day.
  • #28
  • Sep 9, 2010 12:58pm Sep 9, 2010 12:58pm
For those who claim they have already found the Holy Grail, like those described in post 1, looks like they don't need to improve themselves through teaching.

Quoting aitrade
There are two possible reasons:
1. To gain respect which will reflect on their personality and makes them trade better.
2. To refine their skills further: When someone teachs something first he/she has to prepare materials to teach, then he/she gets different kinds of questions some of which is repetitive and worthless but few are very smart and elighten them to new paths or trading techniques.
  • #29
  • Sep 9, 2010 1:03pm Sep 9, 2010 1:03pm
Glad you said that here. Some people (like wormboy) just cannot believe that valuable things can be freely offered. If they don't pay, they will not believe they can learn something valuable.


Quoting Sim
Another branch of this is, can anyone truly put a value on education, especially something so valuable as that from a profitable trader? For this reason I believe the best teachers combine this with the fact that they already have attained their goals and simply do not want or need to put a value on their time in the same way as they would if they felt more reliant on said income.

This is why there are plenty of real teachers on here, compare the difference with commercial, more secretive teachers, the list is endless but some that come to mind...
  • #30
  • Edited 2:22pm Sep 9, 2010 2:08pm | Edited 2:22pm
Quoting kk007
Glad you said that here. Some people (like wormboy) just cannot believe that valuable things can be freely offered. If they don't pay, they will not believe they can learn something valuable.



read again what i said.

Quoting wormboy
the only motivation is making money. like everything else in life. If you have the necessary credibility & skills to teach, then you have the right to sell it. It's up to the students/buyers to decide if the particular tutor is worth the asking fee.
But to think that all tutors should just teach everything they know for free is just naive.
now, point to me where I stated that all valuable things can't be freely offered.
The bolded statement implied that not all tutors will teach for free, but there will be some who will.
But of course, most of the things in life, the good ones, must be paid for to be obtained. I personally paid to learn trading from a former pro a few years back & it had served me well since. Think you can just pick up a few books & read some thread on forexfactory for free and become a profitable trader? Maybe ... but let's not kid ourselves. The stats don't lie.
Come on, you've been on the other thread where those idiots are calling j16 a liar for not producing statements etc. Some said he is not a real trader. Some of them are questioning his pinbar method which he freely shared over the years in his thread. Some predicament now isn't it? He teaches for free in his thread, he gets ridiculed. He charges $129 he gets ridiculed. Cheap bastards are so hard to satisfy.

I'm done here with this topic. We can sit here and talk about this till we turn blue in the face but I bet it will not change the shape of the commercial forum.
Thank You
  • #31
  • Edited 2:47pm Sep 9, 2010 2:44pm | Edited 2:47pm
I do sometimes wonder why anyone would wish to teach, forget the money for now.

I can see the the arguments for diversified income streams, passive incomes and all the rest, but if you are a profitable trader over time I just cant see the $ positives.

Some argue its a means of increasing your trading pot for the "big" account, but again why just not trade/compound - as efficient if not more so, but without the headaches, ballaches and complaining customer service emails.

Would teach someone to trade but for free and in a totally different manner, one to one for a start/physical presence. The adage of demo for x time, then small size for x period more is utter rhubarb. Trading the J16 way as an example the sample trade size for the recommended period of time for newbies is way too small. You would learn little or nothing about your own psych make up or develop any real belief in your own edge, just misguided enthusiasm.

All genuine vendors/teachers etc should have no probs quantifying there ability via myfxbook or similar imo.
  • #32
  • Last Post: Sep 9, 2010 6:46pm Sep 9, 2010 6:46pm
Ok. Maybe I haven't fully understood your previous messages. Perhaps, you mean in most but not all cases, there is no free lunch.

Quoting wormboy
I heard John Hopkins University is one of the best meds school in the world.
They have credibility. Think you can study there for free?
Quoting wormboy


read again what i said.



now, point to me where I stated that all valuable things can't be freely offered.
The bolded statement implied that not all tutors will teach for free, but there will be some who will.
But of course, most of the things in life, the good ones, must be paid for to be obtained. I personally paid to learn trading from a former pro a few years back & it had served me well since. Think you can just pick up a few books & read some thread on forexfactory for free and become a profitable trader? Maybe ... but let's not...
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