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Nanningbob V5: Steve Hopwood's auto-trading robot

  • #501
  • Sep 2, 2010 4:01pm Sep 2, 2010 4:01pm
Quoting CanuckCT
Don't know if this helps.
Cheers
CanuckCT
Yes it does, and hugely.

#7 can come out of the bot for now, as I am trying to code the counter-trend thingy.

I know how to take #4 forward now. I suppose I should have done so anyhow, given how I use it, bit I can get messed up in the woods very easily.

Most helpful as always CanuckCT. Thanks.

  • #502
  • Sep 2, 2010 4:13pm Sep 2, 2010 4:13pm
Quoting SteveHopwood
If restarted, NB would cheerfully remove the break even tp's from the Recovery trade groups. This is a bug that I have squished in the post 1 update. Users can probably hang on until the weekend to see if there are further updates; just be aware that the bug exists in previous versions.

That apart, Recovery appears to be working superbly; another pair closed at BE earlier today.

I am slowly enhancing the trading logic. The bot took a trade yesterday and a couple today that I took manually on my live account. Here are some observations:
[list][*]#1...
Hi Steve - for #3 my original suggestion was to use a percentage or minimum separation pips from the screen top of bottom to catch those situations where you get a bulge but the BB bands down go off the screen.

On the question of trade management - I'd also noticed it wasn't doing what it was meant to in all circumstances. I'll go check the update to MPTM.

cheers
Simon
  • #503
  • Sep 2, 2010 4:32pm Sep 2, 2010 4:32pm
Quoting SteveHopwood
I suppose I should have done so anyhow, given how I use it, bit I can get messed up in the woods very easily.
Steve, I am totally amazed how you manage to get your head around all this stuff. You sure don't get lost in the woods often!! Thanks.
  • #504
  • Sep 2, 2010 4:38pm Sep 2, 2010 4:38pm
Quoting f451
Hi Steve - for #3 my original suggestion was to use a percentage or minimum separation pips from the screen top of bottom to catch those situations where you get a bulge but the BB bands down go off the screen.
cheers
Simon
Thanks, but how to identify a bulge in code is the problem. Your solution of the price goes off the screen works perfectly, when the price goes off the screen.

In so many ways, this is enough given that we are trying to code a robot that could be left alone on 20+ charts 24 hours a day. Your solution is brilliant and works, and is all we actually need. Ok, so some bulge trades will get missed, but a shed-load more will get taken because the bot will not sleep.

So, I would like to do some fine-tuning but this is not a necessity. What you have provided does a fantastic job already.

  • #505
  • Sep 2, 2010 4:41pm Sep 2, 2010 4:41pm
Quoting ForexKiwi
Steve, I am totally amazed how you manage to get your head around all this stuff. You sure don't get lost in the woods often!! Thanks.
Hehe. Thanks, but yes I do. I spend most of my life in a total logic fuzz.

If God had intended me to be a computer programmer, She would have delayed my birth by 30 years.
  • #506
  • Sep 2, 2010 4:59pm Sep 2, 2010 4:59pm
Quoting f451
Hi Steve - for #3 my original suggestion was to use a percentage or minimum separation pips from the screen top of bottom to catch those situations where you get a bulge but the BB bands down go off the screen.

On the question of trade management - I'd also noticed it wasn't doing what it was meant to in all circumstances. I'll go check the update to MPTM.

cheers
Simon
Simon, I rarely delete code these days, preferring to comment it out 'just in case'.

I looking at editing the #4 stuff, I came across this in the #3 part of void GetTradeDirection()
Inserted Code
          // alternatively, if this misses valid bulge buys and sell because of screen refresh, could use this          /* 
         double value = screentop - screenbottom      //value top of the chart - value bottom
         double sixth = value/6;
         double valueS = (value*(MathPow(10,Digits)));
         double sixthS = (sixth*(MathPow(10,Digits)));

         double BulgeBottom = NormalizeDouble(screenbottom+sixth/2, Digits);
         double BulgeTop = NormalizeDouble(screentop-sixth/2, Digits);

         if ( (BbUpper >= BulgeTop) || (BbLower <= BulgeBottom) ) */

I assume this is what you refer to in your post? Sheer genius.

  • #507
  • Sep 2, 2010 5:35pm Sep 2, 2010 5:35pm
This one is for the coders. I have to make a shed-load of changes to the user guide before putting it in post 1.

 

  1. all the #7 stuff is removed.
  2. #4 is now initiated when the market is Mode4DistanceToBB pips away from the outer BB's. This is not an external, so just do a search for it if you want to play with different settings.

With the changes to #4, all the trend stuff is redundant, so I have commented it out. Most of the robot source consists of commented out code.

Have a play and see what you think.

Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 Nanningbob V5 auto-trader by Steve and Simon.mq4   83 KB | 283 downloads
  • #508
  • Sep 2, 2010 6:38pm Sep 2, 2010 6:38pm
I just love the counter trend nature of NB....but should we have a discussion about whether we want to incorporate a trend trade aspect to the EA and what that might entail? Or maybe that is a separate EA (and thread) altogether...as it's not really NB. What do ye say?
Cheers
CanuckCT
  • #509
  • Sep 2, 2010 10:21pm Sep 2, 2010 10:21pm
Here is a pic of what I mean....for trend trading on H4. Need some logic for how trend and countertrend trades would coexist. I think has some merit. Food for thought.
Cheers
CanuckCT
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2010-09-03_0012.png Size: 92 KB
  • #510
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:05am Sep 3, 2010 12:05am
Quoting Tread
Folks

here is an update on my further testing...
Nice. As I said earlier, I suspected ADX would be an ideal filter.
I am assuming that it still doesn't prevent the runaway losers when we enter a large trend? Or does it prevent entry on those reversal trades?

If I get time I will try adding the 30M or 1HR ADX filter to my code so if it resurrects Trend and SAR.

cheers
Simon
  • #511
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:15am Sep 3, 2010 12:15am
Quoting CanuckCT
Here is a pic of what I mean....for trend trading on H4. Need some logic for how trend and countertrend trades would coexist. I think has some merit. Food for thought.
Cheers
CanuckCT
Attachment
This reply is for everyone who is thinking about trend and counter trend trading. I have been thinking about this since before this start of this thread and have had a serious stab at coding EA to trade this way using NB v5 as a starting point. This is difficult stuff and integrating other methods with NB's system is hard.

However two pointers to consider: I now believe that the distinction between "trend" and "counter trend" is a conceptual furphy. What is a trend? Well it all depends on the timeframe your looking at. The "reversal" trades that NB system takes come in two varieties - those occurring at the end of a trend which actually mark the start of a new trend, and retraces during a larger timeframe trend. Both make money. The only real distinction bgtween them from a trading point of view is that you should set smaller take profit targets for the retrace.

Secondly I suspect we will need different indicators to NBs system to capture what people are currently thinking about as "trend" trades. The stochastics all entering overbought or oversold is actually a reasonable indicator of a trend, but probably gets you in too late on 4HR, and there's a strong case to enter "with trend" from anywhere on the chart (i.e. ignoring the sixths). Scaling down to 1HR stochs might work better for entries and exits. But in general there are better trend indicators.

Food for thought.

cheers
Simon
  • #512
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:19am Sep 3, 2010 12:19am
Quoting SteveHopwood
Simon, I rarely delete code these days, preferring to comment it out 'just in case'.

I looking at editing the #4 stuff, I came across this in the #3 part of void GetTradeDirection()
[code]...
yes, that's exactly what I was referring to. I was using half a sixth as the "separation from screen top or bottom". I have no idea if that's a suitable value. A bit of experimentation might be required here to set it more appropriately.

cheers
Simon
  • #513
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:33am Sep 3, 2010 12:33am
Quoting CanuckCT
Here is a pic of what I mean....for trend trading on H4. Need some logic for how trend and countertrend trades would coexist. I think has some merit. Food for thought.
Cheers
CanuckCT
Attachment
The logic around how trend and counter trend trades co-exist is the crucial part of any EA, and is was what I was calling Trend and Stop and Reverse. When to exit the with trend trade is actually the devilishly tricky bit. I would lean towards exiting conservatively on this trades because once a a reversal is setup, waiting until it enters usually gives up more pips that the trade was worth. That is why my experiments with NB Trend and SAR reduced profitability compared with NB v5.

Think of a U. You want to trade down the first slope of the U "with trend" but you wan to exit before the bottom of the U, and the enter the reversal to capture profits as you move up on the other side. If you stay in the first trade too long you lose profitability. If you enter the reversal too early to lose profitability because draw down increases and you have to reduce leverage.

The one weakness of NB's method is the floating drawdown. This means you can't use leverage to increase profitability. If we manage to trade with the trend for those trades where we would otherwise sustain a large drawdown when we enter a reversal, then, even if we exit the trend trade conservatively, then we can increase leverage and profitability will skyrocket.

I would suggest the following

two setup modes, and two sets of entry triggers

mode1 - setup for trend trade - look for trend trade entry conditions to enter, exit a reversal trade if in one, look for reversal setup conditions to exit trend trade
mode2 - setup for reversal trade - look for entry conditions for reversal trade (i.e. NB rules #1 through #4) , exit any trend trade if in one, look for trend trade setups to exit reversal trades.

cheers
Simon
  • #514
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:37am Sep 3, 2010 12:37am
So far I have only used it to time the entry. and stay of the current trend. To ride the existing trend, I am looking at the ADX on the higher TF in conjunction with the Stochastic.

If anyone has the Pulse or Trend Adjusted Stochastic oscillator it would help in timing the strength of the current trend.

To ride the current trend, I am looking at the angle of the ADX/DI line, which is greater DI or ADX (could signify a breakout), and the seperation of the DI, the bigger these values the stronger the current trend, so it might be viable to ride it till reversal. This is showing serious promise so far, but Im still testing.

One keynote I have realized with the ADX is that if you want to know what is happening with the trend you don't look at the corresponding DI, but you look at the opposing DI behavior.

eg. bullish sentiment may be choppy so the +DI will be choppy and difficult to read short term, but while all this is happening, the -DI is in a solid downtrend, so by reading the -DI and I can tell is the Long Trend is really sustainable for an entry.

I am also looking at a different version of the ADX, but that's a whole different study
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 2010-09-03_0127.png Size: 65 KB
  • #515
  • Sep 3, 2010 12:42am Sep 3, 2010 12:42am
Quoting CanuckCT
Here is a pic of what I mean....for trend trading on H4. Need some logic for how trend and countertrend trades would coexist. I think has some merit. Food for thought.
Cheers
CanuckCT
Attachment
Thanks CanuckCT

Not sure how other charts would look but looking simply at your chart you could possibly set the rule that when the RSI 50 goes below 50 for a SELL trade the bot doesn't wait for the red or blue MACD lines to get above the 75 - 85 mark, but simply enters if the white line (or black on your chart) goes over the 75 MACD mark ie don't worry about the blue or red. The bot wouldn't worry about the green or gold lines either (for a sell only). The exit point would be when the white and blue are both below 15 or 20 MACD.

The current criteria of RWB would still apply for counter trend trades whether the RSI 50 is below 50 or not ie BUY's for the above scenario. For the RWB to be below 15 - 20 MACD it would mean that the with-trend trade would have exited already.

Conversely the opposite would apply for RSI over 50.

Potentially a small hard SL may be needed for these with-trend trades????
  • #516
  • Sep 3, 2010 1:16am Sep 3, 2010 1:16am
Quoting Tread
So far I have only used it to time the entry. and...
Tread,

when you've finished testing can you post up the rules you're using around ADX to reduce drawdown, how much you believe the drawdown is reduced by, and whether or not with your ADX filter you take the same trades as the NB system, or if you miss some

cheers
Simon
  • #517
  • Sep 3, 2010 5:57am Sep 3, 2010 5:57am
Will Do, I have a table for the data collected, pairs/bot entry/draw down vs manual entry, I'll clean it up and post Saturday.
  • #518
  • Edited 6:50am Sep 3, 2010 6:00am | Edited 6:50am
A few words about my last version :

BreakEvenPips;
BreakEvenProfit ;
JumpingStopPips;
TrailingStopPips;
MinimumTargetinPips;
ReEntryLinePips

are auto calculated for each pair and are a % of the Daily ATR(14days)
this % is user selectable by this variables (with my default values):

BEPips_DATRMult =0.15;
BEProfit_DATRMult =0.06;
JSPips_DATRMul =0.3;
TSPips_DATRMul =0.3;
MinimumTarget_DATRMul =0.3;
ReEntryPips_DATRMult =1

for exemple, today EurUSd Daily ATR is 113 pips ,so the BreakEvenPips = 113*0.15% = 17 pips
The value of the _DATRMult should be the same for each pair. For exemple, with same value (0.15), today GbpJpy Daily ATR is 180 pips ,so the BreakEvenPips = 180*0.15% = 27 pips
It's no nonsense, because it's very convienient to do not have to set these params for every pair, morover it's a dynamic adjustment when the volatility changes

I have added a mode #9 that use the KG extreme calculation
For people didn't followed the tread about KG extreme , it's a rather complicated calculation that look Rsi for every pair in a basket and determine which currency is the strongest and which one is the weakest. That give one pair that is Overbought (OB) and one that is OS.
I choose to :
buy the OS pair if other conditions are met (gold lines etc...) AND a fast stock (5,2,2)>15 and this stoch is rising
sell the OB pair if other conditions are met (gold lines etc...) AND a fast stock (5,2,2)<85 and this stoch is falling

Will see if this mode will have legs next week.

DD: I have a very small DD due to my settings( very tight) for BE, TS ect... Sure I miss some good profits because some trades are close at BE, but the DD is very very small

Otherwise I added last Steve mod for #4, washed the code for unecessery comments, no more used parts, better reading ect...
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 NBv5-19082010-mx015.mq4   84 KB | 264 downloads
  • #519
  • Sep 3, 2010 7:11am Sep 3, 2010 7:11am
Quoting f451

I would suggest the following

two setup modes, and two sets of entry triggers

mode1 - setup for trend trade - look for trend trade entry conditions to enter, exit a reversal trade if in one, look for reversal setup conditions to exit trend trade
mode2 - setup for reversal trade - look for entry conditions for reversal trade (i.e. NB rules #1 through #4) , exit any trend trade if in one, look for trend trade setups to exit reversal trades.

cheers
Simon
Chew on this....do we need to tie the exit of one type of trade with the entry of the other. Perhaps not. Could they run independent of each other, allowing one trend and one NB (countertrend) trade per pair at a time. If one is in DD, then the other is taking profits. Maybe this is mode 3? I see the complexity of this for sure.

Cheers
CanuckCT
  • #520
  • Sep 3, 2010 7:16am Sep 3, 2010 7:16am
Quoting maxou888
A few words about my last version :

BreakEvenPips;
BreakEvenProfit ;
JumpingStopPips;
TrailingStopPips;
MinimumTargetinPips;
ReEntryLinePips

are auto calculated for each pair and are a % of the Daily ATR(14days)
this % is user selectable by this variables (with my default values):

BEPips_DATRMult =0.15;
BEProfit_DATRMult =0.06;
JSPips_DATRMul =0.3;
TSPips_DATRMul =0.3;
MinimumTarget_DATRMul =0.3;
ReEntryPips_DATRMult =1

for exemple, today EurUSd Daily ATR is 113 pips ,so the BreakEvenPips = 113*0.15% = 17 pips
The value of the _DATRMult...
is your ea is still only using the the 2.4.2 recovery method? or did you add all three?

plus i think steve noticed an issue in the bulge trade code, did you make this correction as well? all the modules should be working correctly now? thanks
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