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(can) small accounts make a living ?!

  • #541
  • Aug 20, 2010 6:50am Aug 20, 2010 6:50am
Wtf is this thread all about

all nonsense, what size account you need is entirely situational, dependent on your own personal factors of risk, and trading performance

i can make a living with $300 or less if I wanted to, because I trade full leverage with a 5-8p SL, and at 1mini, $50-100 a day is MORE than enough for a normal life

but if I was position trading, then duh, different ball game
  • #542
  • Aug 20, 2010 7:38am Aug 20, 2010 7:38am
If your trade plan cant turn $250 into $250,000 your trade plan wont be able to turn $250,000 into $2,500,000. so the key is get a trade plan that works. start with $250 when you get a tp that works and if you liquidate it then youll be glad it wasnt $250,000.
  • #543
  • Aug 20, 2010 1:04pm Aug 20, 2010 1:04pm
Quoting schwartx
If your trade plan cant turn $250 into $250,000 your trade plan wont be able to turn $250,000 into $2,500,000. so the key is get a trade plan that works. start with $250 when you get a tp that works and if you liquidate it then youll be glad it wasnt $250,000.
Thats my method of limiting my losses, £100 GBP at a time generally haven't added in over a year so cheap hobby this All the must start with 250K crappola is entirely so they can and will take your 250K, where as £100 won't get them very far

Trading high risk on $250 would could get to $1000 fairy easily, but trading with that risk with $1000 becomes harder, you'd likely trade with the same risk but a bigger cushion so 1750 next stop.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #544
  • Aug 20, 2010 1:10pm Aug 20, 2010 1:10pm
yes, they can make a living if you keep compounding...
  • #545
  • Aug 20, 2010 1:11pm Aug 20, 2010 1:11pm
and besides, making a living in india is different to making a living in the UK
  • #546
  • Aug 20, 2010 1:28pm Aug 20, 2010 1:28pm
Compounding isn't the best way to think about it, as they'll rip the whole you'd be a billionaire twoddle into it, think making say 50pips per day ? I think most will agree a good day trader / scalper can do that in a few hours right ?? I can more than replace my income after tax at $2 per pip then build the account upto trade $10 or $20 per pip then thats more than a living thats a killing.

Ofcourse it's not that easy, very few make this, it's been my plan for many years and I think I'll get there this year
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #547
  • Aug 20, 2010 2:17pm Aug 20, 2010 2:17pm
Quoting Sim
Wtf is this thread all about

all nonsense, what size account you need is entirely situational
Exactly, this thread is an example of "the art of stating the bleeding obvious". Such MM info is known to any newbie who can use a calculator and read babypips.com.

What's also does not make sense is that he says that he lives in the UK, started with £100,000, but now trades USD accounts. What for?

Also if H Rearden is English, why did he spell "realize" in US way, instead of "realise" how it would normally be spelled by any English person (especially, if born in the 60s)?

Just wondering...
  • #548
  • Aug 20, 2010 4:52pm Aug 20, 2010 4:52pm
Quoting dengzhi
here's a thought:
if you start with just $100 and consistently make over 10% a month, then after around 20 years of trading you would have one trillion dollars.
Bill Gates only has a net worth of about 50 billion (probably much lower now) and he is the richest man in the world.
no single man in the world has a trillion dollars...

that being said you can look at the results of the "professional" hedge fund firms.. they make something between -5% and 5% on average monthly.. sometimes even they have 2 losing months in a row (like -0.2% and -1.3%)...
mate, the hedge funds only make 5% per month because they trade 1:1 leverage! we trade 100:1... go and work out how much the funds make now!
@pawpaw1000 on Twitter
  • #549
  • Aug 20, 2010 6:30pm Aug 20, 2010 6:30pm
all irrelevant. The problem is the entry, the reason to take the trade. And i am inclined to believe that luck plays 99,9%, if not 100%.

normally when someone disagree with it, you can easily investigate the posts of this person and realize he/she is a scammer. If you have difficult to discover if it is a scammer or not, take a 5 year old kid and he certanily can spot the scammer.
  • #550
  • Aug 20, 2010 6:31pm Aug 20, 2010 6:31pm
Quoting pawpaw1000
mate, the hedge funds only make 5% per month because they trade 1:1 leverage! we trade 100:1... go and work out how much the funds make now!

To be fair, high risk scalpers use 30 - 50:1 longer term likely use 2 - 3 % at the most.

But they have loads of money and it takes them ages to liquidify there 10,000's of lots, we have the advantage of being to get in and out as we wish.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #551
  • Aug 20, 2010 6:47pm Aug 20, 2010 6:47pm
Quoting pawpaw1000
mate, the hedge funds only make 5% per month because they trade 1:1 leverage! we trade 100:1... go and work out how much the funds make now!
5% a day
  • #552
  • Aug 20, 2010 7:24pm Aug 20, 2010 7:24pm
Quoting ha-pattern
5% a day
If you make 5% a day consistently, you can turn 1$ into 1,000,000$ in 1 year... So you can make a living starting only with 1 buck man
  • #553
  • Aug 20, 2010 9:21pm Aug 20, 2010 9:21pm
Argh, you gave me a case of the "responsibilities".
I'll be studying mm all WEEK!

(Nothing a few mc's won't cure.)
  • #554
  • Aug 20, 2010 10:20pm Aug 20, 2010 10:20pm
Small accounts can make a living, through either very hard work, a lot of luck, and through a combination of both. The question is why would you want to try and make a living with poor capitalisation? Yes, the freedom is awesome, but unless we're properly capitalised we're just placing unnecessary pressure on ourselves that could lead to our failure. We should aim to place ourselves in the position that offers the greatest chance of success, and this includes being well-capitalised.

My own experience has been one of being poorly capitalised, and putting up with it due to the fear of getting another job (I feared the loss in freedom) to support myself. Now I'm working another job, I've been on both sides of the fence, and being poorly capitalised just isn't worth it in my opinion. I won't be going back to trading full-time until I have substancially more capital. I also now understand why many traders have a separate office, and will rent office space when I go back to trading full-time.

Quoting dengzhi
that being said you can look at the results of the "professional" hedge fund firms.. they make something between -5% and 5% on average monthly.. sometimes even they have 2 losing months in a row (like -0.2% and -1.3%)...
As pawpaw said, they trade with a different risk profile. Big fund trading and smaller trading is apples to oranges. Here are a couple of reasons:

1. Traders experience gain and loss far more frequently than "investors", and develop tolerance of capital fluctuations far more quickly and to a much greater extent. A large fund has to settle on a risk profile that is acceptable to its investors. An indepedent trader can operate to whatever level they prefer.

2. Size has a significant effect in trading efficiency. A large fund will take far longer than a small trader to open and close a position. This means the small trader can operate with less risk and catch more of the move.

Also consider that it is in the interest of much of the industry to suggest that we can't do better than a large fund.
  • #555
  • Aug 21, 2010 1:01am Aug 21, 2010 1:01am
Quoting Mr J

2. Size has a significant effect in trading efficiency. A large fund will take far longer than a small trader to open and close a position. This means the small trader can operate with less risk and catch more of the move.

Also consider that it is in the interest of much of the industry to suggest that we can't do better than a large fund.
Please provide me significant and undeniable proof of this statement. Are you saying that banks and large traders don't have automated systems that, at times open and close trades (almost) minute by minute? (perhaps you could research this).

Also, I would suggest that most of the "industry' doesn't give a damn about retail traders except to take an occasional peek at their positions so that they may take the opposite position.

I would like for you to elaborate more on why you think a small trader can operate with less risk. For example... I am a hedge fund... you are a retail trader...... why can you make more money than me (percentage... obviously not in total dollars).

Additionally, I don't fully understand this statement "Also consider that it is in the interest of much of the industry to suggest that we can't do better than a large fund." Why does the industry care? Does bloomberg.com not want to admit that retail traders made money? I'm really curious.

Thanks for your help

TR
  • #556
  • Aug 21, 2010 5:12am Aug 21, 2010 5:12am
Quoting TradeRunner
Additionally, I don't fully understand this statement "Also consider that it is in the interest of much of the industry to suggest that we can't do better than a large fund." Why does the industry care? Does bloomberg.com not want to admit that retail traders made money? I'm really curious.
If you were a big hedge fund, would you like to admit that you can't/don't do better than the small/average professional retail trader? Is that the image you would want to project to potential investors?
  • #557
  • Aug 21, 2010 7:04am Aug 21, 2010 7:04am
Quoting TradeRunner
Please provide me significant and undeniable proof of this statement.
It should be self evident. It doesn't how frequently they trade to close a position, because it is always far longer than a small trader.

Quote
I would like for you to elaborate more on why you think a small trader can operate with less risk. For example... I am a hedge fund... you are a retail trader...... why can you make more money than me (percentage... obviously not in total dollars).
Less exposure. A small trader can open and close a position almost immediately, while a larger participant takes longer. More time, more exposure, more risk.

Quote
Additionally, I don't fully understand this statement "Also consider that it is in the interest of much of the industry to suggest that we can't do better than a large fund." Why does the industry care? Does bloomberg.com not want to admit that retail traders made money? I'm really curious.
Much of the industry is sales. I'm sure mutual funds would prefer to not have would-be investors trade for themselves.
  • #558
  • Aug 21, 2010 7:16am Aug 21, 2010 7:16am
Quoting Mr J

Much of the industry is sales. I'm sure mutual funds would prefer to not have would-be investors trade for themselves.
There happy for people to trade for themselves as long as there losing money cause them losing ='s more money to go around the people that are profiting.

Thats why sites like this and others exist to teach people how not to do it.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #559
  • Aug 21, 2010 7:57am Aug 21, 2010 7:57am
Quoting Turveyd
There happy for people to trade for themselves as long as there losing money cause them losing ='s more money to go around the people that are profiting.

Thats why sites like this and others exist to teach people how not to do it.
No they're not. The sharper participants don't care, since weak money remains weak money, but mutual funds do not want people to trade for themselves. They make money from management fees, not from devouring the weak participants (at least not with trading ability, but by fees).
  • #560
  • Jun 1, 2011 2:40pm Jun 1, 2011 2:40pm
Quoting H. Rearden
Ok,


Ask yourself why no other line of business (like the brokers and 'system' developers) offers such an array of offensive advertising? Have you ever seen a slaughterhouse crying adverts like: open a butcher - easy money, every month - only 50 bucks to buy a dead pig - you can sell the bacon for much more.

H. Rearden
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