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Ken's Continuing Successes with EO's system

  • #1,541
  • Aug 16, 2010 12:53pm Aug 16, 2010 12:53pm
Ok I can see that and it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight it helps a lot. I do need to start using the MAs for SL. I think that will help me more than just setting a 15 - 20 pip stop each time.

I wonder sometimes about my S/R lines. Can you let me know if I am plotting them correctly? I find my major S/R lines by using the daily and 4 hr. charts. I zoom way out and I try to find the areas that have the most touches and I put my lines there. Then I zoom in some and fine tune them to the tops off the wicks if I can. Or I will fudge a little one way or the other depending on he relationship to the body if they are closer. It is kinda subjective. Then I normally draw a trend line from the highs and the lows of the previous day for an intermediate S/R line.

I have always wondered if I was plotting them correctly or at least close. For the most par it works but if there is a better way please let me know. I have searched to find the best way. Everyone always talks about S/R but does not really give a good way to find them. I try to use the higher time frames because it seems to give me lines that are of more importance. I always wonder how many lines should I have. I found that if I use a lower time frame I will have lines every 10 - 15 pips and I wonder how strong they are.
  • #1,542
  • Aug 16, 2010 12:59pm Aug 16, 2010 12:59pm
Quoting Kenneth Lee
One of the good uses for the ma's off EO's thread is to use them for Targets when going towards them as we have trades that we take away from them . And also when trading away from the ma's use them as places to put your stop. Just helps to keep you from having to strain your mind. Like on that short stop above the 21 ema would have fit the trade ..
If we learn to read Price Action correctlly we see right away that all we should be doing is looking for the next entry. We aren't looking for targets and stops but places to make the next entry. Just like your trade got stopped but right after a entry was there.

Plus a breakout trade is one of the most used trades around. Breakout of the previous days high or low, Breakout of a trendline. Breakout of Asain session high. Or any range. So when we are looking at our current trade don't just think about where your stop goes but think if my stop gets closed the other side of and the s/r area changes from the bottom to the top .. What is next.. it is like driving fast on a freeway. I use to love doing that in Houston.. but you don't look at the car ahead of you your watching two or three or even more as they will cause the car in front of you to react. but you can react before the guy in front does,

This is what we are trying to show. That we can and do take trades before others even consider the possiblities. But we have to learn to drive offensevilly to do it. But most teach to drive defensevily justb like in life everyone teaches you to be safe when maybe a bit of risk is what can keep you even safer.

We might get stopped twice as much but if we play the price right we still lose half as much and our trades turn positiev before most even enter.


Just some thoughts rattling around.. Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #1,543
  • Aug 16, 2010 1:05pm Aug 16, 2010 1:05pm
Quoting Siddhi69
Ok I can see that and it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the insight it helps a lot. I do need to start using the MAs for SL. I think that will help me more than just setting a 15 - 20 pip stop each time.

I wonder sometimes about my S/R lines. Can you let me know if I am plotting them correctly? I find my major S/R lines by using the daily and 4 hr. charts. I zoom way out and I try to find the areas that have the most touches and I put my lines there. Then I zoom in some and fine tune them to the tops off the wicks if I can. Or I will fudge a...

I personally don't plot anything less than a 4 hr . with wide screen monitors I find i can see th levels of a hr even on my 15 min . Plus when price really starts a tight range the 15 min level are right there as well.

Yes line drawing is subjective . i find at times mine are always a bit of than others as I may average up or down. Plus a lot of people let software draw them as it is nothing but averaging highs and lows.

But i like looking and seeing where they come from at times you can see that a line maybe better support than resistance . plus the length of the wicks can help you see how wide the area may be. Which at times can help to keep you from missing a entry by a few pips because you thought it should go a bit further.

i know some that change their charts to line charts and use them as they average price as well and you lose the wicks. but i still just do it the old fashion way and might make a error or two . but the more you do it the easier it becomes , actually the better you see it doesn't have to be precise. just knowing your in the neighborhood and then watching the price Action unfold will get you were you want to be..
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #1,544
  • Aug 16, 2010 1:17pm Aug 16, 2010 1:17pm
I think as a newbie one of the hardest things for me has been to understand that everything is not so cut and dry. I keep looking for that exact "something" to make everything clear. One of my AHA! moments is your not going to find it. I know I have heard over and over there are no absolutes in trading. But for some reason it has not sunk in until recently. I am starting to see and understand that aspect of trading. Oh! that and patience. I think that has been an eye opener as well. That is helping with some of the bonehead mistakes. I need more patience!
  • #1,545
  • Aug 16, 2010 1:29pm Aug 16, 2010 1:29pm
Quoting Siddhi69
I think as a newbie one of the hardest things for me has been to understand that everything is not so cut and dry. I keep looking for that exact "something" to make everything clear. One of my AHA! moments is your not going to find it. I know I have heard over and over there are no absolutes in trading. But for some reason it has not sunk in until recently. I am starting to see and understand that aspect of trading. Oh! that and patience. I think that has been an eye opener as well. That is helping with some of the bonehead mistakes. I need more...

One of the few things I can say to any new trader is don't do anything against your plan. If you place your stop leave it or you have a target the same. The most devistating aspect for traders comes from the fact that they do something they KNOW is totally wrong and it works out in their favor. That does nothing but reenforce bad trading habbits. and even if it works sometimes it will catch up with you.

And normally it will cost your the farm . That is probably the hardest thing for us to understand. Why you always hear don't add to a losing trade even if it does average your entry if continues against you your losing money twice as fast. Plus you get to that i can't close mental state faster as well. ( if i close now I have lost to much) So you do the second worse thing slide your stop bit by bit. We can always think of a reason to move our stops just a bit more. But if it wasn't in your original plan. Like my Gbp short i knew there was a good possiblity that 00 would be tested and a close above was my stop.

I will allow a spike at times but not a close as once it closes the otherside of our level we have changed the playing field. So stick to your plan . if you can't find profitablity using a certian plan. Find another one or design your own. their are many ways to succeed at this . But I think most will find that conguering their own ingrained issues will be the hardest part of trading.

It is easy it isn't hard. We do nothing but follow a set of rules decided by what we see on the chart. the only hard part is taking the trade and not guessing .. We don't guess we decide and live with the choice.
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #1,546
  • Edited 4:53pm Aug 16, 2010 1:57pm | Edited 4:53pm
Don't take me wrong because if it is within your plan some of the above can be a part of a trades plan. Like entering after a pin you can enter straight away using a partial entry then add the balance of your NORMAL position size if it pulls up the wick. Because if you wait to enter you could miss the trade completelly.

And we do add to trades but normally only when they are winners . Like if your up 50 pips and you get a retracement to say a 50% line we could add more. But the thought is about doing the wrong thing and knowing it is wrong.. Don't do it then try and justify it.

If it wasn't in your thought process in the beggining it isn't in the plan.

That is why maybe writing down why your taking a trade and your goals about it is good. Then wirte after you close win or lose and any changes you made along the way. How you feel about the entry and the changes should also be noted this way . We can learn that gut feeling is not often wrong.

If it feels wrong it normally is. Just like everything else in life nothing is cut and dry..

For more on trading emotions read Trading In the Zone, gives some good background to why we do some of the things we don't even realize we are doing.. It was a eye opener to me.. how our upbringing has instilled habbits of continuing strive into our minds.

Think your a winner and you will be one.. Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #1,547
  • Aug 16, 2010 2:04pm Aug 16, 2010 2:04pm
Quoting Siddhi69
Ok I can see that and it makes a lot of sense....
Hi Sid,
Only one thing.Think about S/R actually not like lines but rather zones .They are not lines in exactly pip,they are zones and can be a few pips.I think Kenn call them PPa so would like to look at it like zone and watch reaction PA(some bearish or bullish pattern).
Only my two newbie pips.

Happy trading Sir.

FX
  • #1,548
  • Aug 16, 2010 2:14pm Aug 16, 2010 2:14pm
Quoting Kenneth Lee
chart questions ?
Hi Kenn,
About chart.Are u saying u will have pending order (short)on the line?Is it 4 hr TF?if yes u will go to 15 and try to short?I asking b/c in my opinion is that very riskie short on that line after a prety big bulish candels and I can't see any bearish sign.
Sorry for maybe silly question or maybe I just something missing.
anyway thank you guys for your inputs.I love this thread.

FX
  • #1,549
  • Aug 16, 2010 2:16pm Aug 16, 2010 2:16pm
Quoting Fxfighter
Hi Sid,
Only one thing.Think about S/R actually not like lines but rather zones .They are not lines in exactly pip,they are zones and can be a few pips.I think Kenn call them PPa so would like to look at it like zone and watch reaction PA(some bearish or bullish pattern).
Only my two newbie pips.

Happy trading Sir.

FX

Very true on some chart they will have them colored wide bands showing the area. Everything in our trading is areas. to set target thinking a hit to the pip would cost a lot of trades.

Thanks for the reminder .. Ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #1,550
  • Aug 16, 2010 2:22pm Aug 16, 2010 2:22pm
Quoting Fxfighter
Hi Kenn,
About chart.Are u saying u will have pending order (short)on the line?Is it 4 hr TF?if yes u will go to 15 and try to short?I asking b/c in my opinion is that very riskie short on that line after a prety big bulish candels and I can't see any bearish sign.
Sorry for maybe silly question or maybe I just something missing.
anyway thank you guys for your inputs.I love this thread.

FX

That waas a chart (15 Min) shwoing what had happened to Sid's trade after he entered and how after his failed long a short trade ( Breakout trade) developed off the level he had been watching for.

It is something that happens a lot , So mnay try and turn price but when it fails because the trend is strong or for whatever reason . They then can miss the trade that is a continuation of the trend they were trying to turn..

And if you look at the CAD/JPY you will see it is still trying to drift down.. So taking the short after the break of that line was a better trade, but to not take the chance on the long would have been sad if it did turn as all the components were there . . Signal Strong S/R - PPA line off higher time frame charts . It just din't workout and they don't all the time if they did it would be child's play.

If you need more clarifaction let me know.

Plus I hardly ever use Pending Orders Myself. I enter what I see..
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #1,551
  • Aug 16, 2010 2:35pm Aug 16, 2010 2:35pm
All good information I will keep that in mind.

I think I will check out that book. It sounds like it could help.
  • #1,552
  • Aug 16, 2010 3:39pm Aug 16, 2010 3:39pm
Quoting Kenneth Lee
That waas a chart (15 Min) shwoing what had happened to Sid's trade after he entered and how after his failed long a short trade ( Breakout trade) developed off the level he had been watching for.

It is something that happens a lot , So mnay try and turn price but when it fails because the trend is strong or for whatever reason . They then can miss the trade that is a continuation of the trend they were trying to turn..

And if you look at the CAD/JPY you will see it is still trying to drift down.. So taking the short after the break of that...
I can not draw in chart what I pointed my jing stop working.I just can see anything to put enter short after bulish candel.In my wiev is better enter short after that 30 min PB and enter break that pin and PPZ daily,short with trend and with big momentum down.
  • #1,553
  • Edited 4:54pm Aug 16, 2010 4:17pm | Edited 4:54pm
Quoting Fxfighter
I can not draw in chart what I pointed my jing stop working.I just can see anything to put enter short after bulish candel.In my wiev is better enter short after that 30 min PB and enter break that pin and PPZ daily,short with trend and with big momentum down.

I fully understand there isn't a entry signal other than that price failed to close back above that area.. It is a trade of faith I guess. If you do much study of breakout trades the retest of the line or area broken is the entry. This way you can use a very tight stop to wait for a signal increases your risk by increasing your stop.

So it is a two edged sword. Higher risk by bigger stop or higher risk by a quick entry. The choice is yours to make. But once you start to really see that support DOES become resistance it will be less risky to take the short and you can always close at BE if it turns back you don't have to take a loss.

I think the risk is less by the early entry as my stop is less. Thd stop off a entry signal should still be the same other side of the area, as a second retest is a common thing..

Just one of the choices a person must decide on himself. There are always things you have to choose yourself. look at Buildcity's thread most people would find those entries a bit hard to take but his over 80% success rate is proof enough . Though his average gain is only 10 pips .

Like I have said many many times there are many ways to conquer trading it is up to us to choose the path we will take..


But yes your right and wrong. LOL, There isn't a signal as such, But if you waited the trade was pretty worthless. as the red candle took all the profit away before you would enter.

It is in the eyes of the beholder to see what is important to them . To some of us a line or area holds more value than many can or see. A few people would even say that a candlestick pattern in itself is just another lagging indicator. So if that was true what would you enter off ???

Just food for thought. Things that make you say HHMMmmm !!

This is not unlike anything else you have done in your life. I just try and get people to see and understand price aciotn not one thing or the other by how and why price acts the way it does. You can look back on any chart and see it does the same things over and over again. The law of averages is in our favour especially if we keep with the trends until they are broken by new swings.

At the worse we get a small loss but that is just part of the game. but if you look for breaks of s/r-ppa lines and then the retest entries the winners out weight the lossers by a huge margin the key is to take the trades when you see them . Then cover to BE in a timely fashion ..


Hope this explains a little it is not a sysytem just a personal prefrence.

ken

sorry it took so long to answer making a pot of potato leek soup.. LOL

Link to chart we are talking about . A short off the failed close above the line drawn .. http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=1538
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #1,554
  • Aug 16, 2010 5:08pm Aug 16, 2010 5:08pm
Quoting leemonk
Kodziro,

I do admire your ability to take these trades. I am sure you havea answered this previously, but I am slowly working my way through this thread from teh start (again for the 3rd time)..... so it will take me a long time to get to an answer

When you take these trades, do you set a PO or will you trade off 5/15/1hr PA?

I am not sure if you just post the good ones and leave the bad ones, but you seem to pick the tops and bottoms extreamely well......

Please do not read anything bad into the above comment, I am just intruiged as...
Hi Lee

I do use PO because i want to enter exactly at this areas plus don`t have time lately to trade with 15min but still I would set PO. Nothing wrong wait for pa. I accept that risk. ( 15 min pa are great for pullback enter after 4h/1h pa occur )

You must understand that risk to reward ratio is everything.

If it help you I could post my bad trades. Here`s my todays loss on usdcad, eurggp - I admit could this cover earlier and usdchf with no picture I shorted at 1.0412 -retest important line and because of small SL =10 I lost ( it went only for 1.0423 ).
And now If my only win trade was EJ +65 at 109.21 ( possiblly +100 pips, but got tp at sunday low ) I still would earn +30 pips.


PS. Just happen another bounce with 109.21 level.


Cheers.
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  • #1,555
  • Aug 16, 2010 5:08pm Aug 16, 2010 5:08pm
Quoting Kenneth Lee
I fully understand there isn't a entry signal other than that price failed to close back above that area.. It is a trade of faith I guess....
Thanks Kenn,I should say yes every trader is special.Just for my liking was to riskie.In that case I will go to 5 min and look for price reaction on this PPA. I am just maybe too conservative but yes if you say how big is my SL and your SL I must say my trade is much riskie)),maybe to much influence from thread J16)).
Yes Eric does very good job,with very good entries combine with good TM and quick in and quick out suit to him.
Thanks Kenn for answears.
Happy trading.

FX
  • #1,556
  • Aug 16, 2010 5:16pm Aug 16, 2010 5:16pm
Quoting Fxfighter
Thanks Kenn,I should say yes every trader is special.Just for my liking was to riskie.In that case I will go to 5 min and look for price reaction on this PPA. I am just maybe too conservative but yes if you say how big is my SL and your SL I must say my trade is much riskie)),maybe to much influence from thread J16)).
Yes Eric does very good job,with very good entries combine with good TM and quick in and quick out suit to him.
Thanks Kenn for answears.
Happy trading.

FX
There is nothing wrong with J16 trading system, But it is different as night and day.. but to start there and then start looking for TIGHTER netries would be a wonderfull thing.. I know very few traders that can trade for giant gians and scalp .. It is a difference in so mnay ways..

we will keep bouncing it back and furth till we all become succesfull. time for that soup now .. with fresh baked bread and roasted chicken.. damn i am hungry.. LOL ken
Good Trading To All ; Ken Lee
  • #1,557
  • Aug 16, 2010 5:24pm Aug 16, 2010 5:24pm
Quoting Kenneth Lee
There is nothing wrong with J16 trading system, But it is different as night and day.. but to start there and then start looking for TIGHTER netries would be a wonderfull thing.. I know very few traders that can trade for giant gians and scalp .. It is a difference in so mnay ways..

we will keep bouncing it back and furth till we all become succesfull. time for that soup now .. with fresh baked bread and roasted chicken.. damn i am hungry.. LOL ken
hehe definitelly J16 is great thread and a few traders do touch trading as well.Hm sounds like nice dinner,so good apetite Sir.
  • #1,558
  • Aug 17, 2010 3:48am Aug 17, 2010 3:48am
Quoting Kenneth Lee
................plus the length of the wicks can help you see how wide the area may be. Which at times can help to keep you from missing a entry by a few pips because you thought it should go a bit further.
Good Morning Ken,

Some great responses there, much to take in !!

May I ask, when you have the time, to expand a little for me on the quoted comment.

I know this is something that you bang on about (meant in a nice way) that SR/TL lines are JUST AREAS, however I often find myself missing a good move because it did turn a little earlier and for some reason or other, despite there being good PA, I still think it will come back to the TL.

I know this is crazy, because as you pointed out in the part that I didn't quote, there are many ways of drawing TL's, so it stands to reason that it will not always be a 'touch'.

Though, with the quote above, this is the first time I have noticed anyone refering to a way to possibly measure this gap.......

So, when you get a chance, it would be great for you to expand on this a little.

Regards

Lee
  • #1,559
  • Aug 17, 2010 4:18am Aug 17, 2010 4:18am
Quoting kodziro
Hi Lee

I do use PO because i want to enter exactly at this areas plus don`t have time lately to trade with 15min but still I would set PO. Nothing wrong wait for pa. I accept that risk. ( 15 min pa are great for pullback enter after 4h/1h pa occur )

You must understand that risk to reward ratio is everything....
Great reply Kodziro.

Clears up a lot of questions.

May I ask how many pairs you look at?

I know since I have been look at the 4hr charts I have had the time to look at almost every pair my broker allows me to trade.

That said, some of the spreads are horrific, in fact I took a trade the other day where I misread the spread. I use 5 digit broker, but sometimes they work on a 4 digit pair, so the GU spread reads as 16, which I know is 1.6 pips. Some other pairs read as 24, which actualy is 24....... and I took one of those.... thankfully, it went a long way.....

I have seen that you trade the SR and TL but do you trade MA'?

As Ken has shown here, Pippinole and EO now trade the 200/50 off the 4hr/15m charts, and I was wondering if you consider MA's?

Regards

Lee

ps.... I sent you a PM
  • #1,560
  • Aug 17, 2010 5:27am Aug 17, 2010 5:27am
Quoting leemonk
Great reply Kodziro.

Clears up a lot of questions.

May I ask how many pairs you look at?

I know since I have been look at the 4hr charts I have had the time to look at almost every pair my broker allows me to trade.

That said, some of the spreads are horrific, in fact I took a trade the other day where I misread the spread. I use 5 digit broker, but sometimes they work on a 4 digit pair, so the GU spread reads as 16, which I know is 1.6 pips. Some other pairs read as 24, which actualy is 24....... and I took one of those.... thankfully, it went...
I watch mostly at majors: G/U, U/J, A/U, N/U, U/C, U/CH
and other : E/J, E/G ( spreads between 1-3 )

I trade MA`s but pain attention to 50/100/200 mostly. I don`t believed in a touch trade of them. It`s just a line but when I got TL or important S/R there along with MA i trade it. I like when candle close with wick rejecting major MA then I set PO at end of it.

PS. Just noticed that all this time got private messages disabled. So can`t send or received any messages until now.
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