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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #69,801
  • Edited 7:31am Jul 27, 2010 7:08am | Edited 7:31am
Quoting jopollin
Hi all
Signed up today as I wanted to mention something. The J16 stuff is obviously popular because it's so basic and we have all learned to keep it simple. Yes support/res works better than anything else.

But PA as such I think is wrongly taught here. Before you all gun me down, here's my point: We all know PA will change depending on data feed, timeframe, tickframe, etc. A pinbar on my chart may not be on yours, but the support/res line will be the same. So I think teaching basic support/res to trade breaks and bounces is correct and probably...
Hmm, GENERALLY speaking are you selling something Pollin ? Cause it smells like it. Well, if not, I have misunderstood and so apologise for my misunderstanding and ask that you please show us your careful analysis and comparison of what people do here versus the same real time/market tick replay you speak of. I look forward to your careful analysis and detailed arguments which demonstrate your key points and highlight the flaws you speak of in these methods as we all ultimately want to keep on improving.

As stewrigh mentioned its all about PA at key SR or high probability trades and how people interpret what they are presented with - every methodology requires learned interpretation.

Take a look at the charts posted above such as Jaroo's for a demonstration of how the knowledge taught here should be used.
In retrospect we learn. In perspective we earn.
  • #69,802
  • Jul 27, 2010 7:14am Jul 27, 2010 7:14am
Hello Pollin,
the seniors are out so i'll try to address your post.

what is your definition of 'textbook PA setup'?

if i understood your post correctly,
u are saying that PA setups taught here are not the only ways to trade. this is what u call 'general PA'.

Quote
..But this is the thing he hasn't really taught regarding PA: if you're looking for textbook PA setups you're wasting your time. What you should learn is just the "candle wick" concept and "real time rejection"...
u have to understand this thread is primarily intended to help/teach newbies. so Sir james16 concentrates in certain PA setups (PB, BUOB etc) because they are the frequently visible & more importantly easily recognizable setups.
several here, like me, are 'tapping our creative minds' in aggregating several consecutive bars to form the PA setups we are familiar with (combining +/- 2 - 10 bars to form a PB, BUOB etc). alternatively, several use custom indicators to do this automatically (custom timeframe indicator).

"candle wick" and "real time rejection" are fairly advanced, but im sure several here do use it.

Quote
..includes pinbars but also includes ANY candle with a half-decent wick. Forget textbook setups....
yes, any candle tells a story, not just PB with long wicks.
again, the material presented here is the most basic, easily recognizable setups, all with the newer traders in mind.

Quote
Real time rejection = can't be seen in retrospect in completed charts
in a way, i disagree. u can see rejection in real time & in hindsight. for the latter (completed charts), u can check lower TFs to see the rejection. u can see, like u said "how fast a price gets rejected from an area and how long it holds still for as if it just cannot pierce through an area". Granted, most traders here are advised to focus on higher TFs.

make no mistake, PA & S/R is what is taught here. it is actually the heart of this thread.

u might be an advanced trader who has forgotten how it is to be a new trader.
in a way, u have several (repetitive) contradicting comments within your post ("thanking" Jim but u find what he teaches is flawed/lacking; "good but missing the point").
if i misunderstood u, please let me know. i would appreciate charts so u can show us how u see things. that will help us address your post better.
  • #69,803
  • Jul 27, 2010 7:43am Jul 27, 2010 7:43am
I see what Pollin is saying but what about practicalities?

There is little point trying to teach something that can't be taught on the thread. That would be plain daft.
The speed of price rejection being important is touched on but as you effectively say it cannot be properly demonstrated on a forum thread.

There are lots of different candle stick patterns - some are covered here.
I don't think an attempt is made to be all inclusive, just simple, understandable and reliable setups.
There are lots of charts out there and you can't trade everything, best to get good at a few things to build your account by.
  • #69,804
  • Edited 8:24am Jul 27, 2010 7:58am | Edited 8:24am
Quoting jopollin
FX-Heaven

LOL here we go. The instant attack, the animal instinct.

No, I have nothing to sell, I wouldn't really know what you would expect me to sell after my first post??

My praise is for selflessness of Jim but I think he was VERY careful to not overdo it for newbies so he never went into more general PA rules, he wanted something solid to teach, to his credit.

His PA at SR areas is great, yes, but you are missing out on opportunities by waiting and waiting for perfect PA setups when it's all down to your datafeed and timeframe anyway,...
LOL, sorry Pollin not sure why my post should be seen as an attack, maybe my people skills (written down) are just not as good as yours.

I get your point about datafeeds, but people have to use what they have access too and what is cost effective to use.

One of your main points was "But PA as such I think is wrongly taught here" - if ensuring its accessible, simple to understand and easy to apply then I have to disagree.

If you are saying that there are more advanced ways of trading then OK, but not everybody wants to day trade and be concerned with being tied down to their screens.

Demonstrate please, we are here to learn.
In retrospect we learn. In perspective we earn.
  • #69,805
  • Jul 27, 2010 8:14am Jul 27, 2010 8:14am
Quoting jopollin
....... I think it's time most of you guys who have done this for while to move on a little to general PA on the chart....
Just would like a bit more advanced study on this thread ...
who told u no one 'moved on' from the basics?

i have yet to see a chart from u Sir. if u are really trying to make a mark here, dont let your effort go in vain.
post a chart or better yet, open up a thread if u are genuinely dissatisfied with what's presented here.
until u 'go full circle' with this, IMHO, u will remain to have a weak argument at the end of all this.


we have one saying, translated... "finish what u have started"
  • #69,806
  • Jul 27, 2010 8:24am Jul 27, 2010 8:24am
Quoting jopollin
Hi all
Signed up today as I wanted to mention something. The J16 stuff is obviously popular because it's so basic and we have all learned to keep it simple. Yes support/res works better than anything else.

But PA as such I think is wrongly taught here. Before you all gun me down, here's my point: We all know PA will change depending on data feed, timeframe, tickframe, etc. A pinbar on my chart may not be on yours, but the support/res line will be the same. So I think teaching basic support/res to trade breaks and bounces is correct and probably...
Hey Pollin

Thanks for chiming in, and I think you might have missed what this entire thread is about. PA is a very small part of what we do here. If you go through this thread you will quickly see that all we talk about is S/R and location. I think of the PA bars as my trigger point. You have to build the story from S/R(supply-demand) and PA(orderflow accumulation). So you are quite correct about S/R but quite wrong about what is here . We also keep things much more basic in terms of what takes place here the majority of the time b/c it is a huge thread in a public forum. But make no mistake the things we do are simple, and it need not be too complicated. I use S/R, PA, and my understanding of market microstucture and do just fine as do many people. I do respect your opinion and this is not an attack, just a qualification post as I don't believe you have been through too much of this thread.

Hope you will post more
Mike
  • #69,807
  • Jul 27, 2010 8:28am Jul 27, 2010 8:28am
Quoting novice198
SC,
It seems that the BEOB has failed. Can we say that it would have been more convincing had it closed below 1.5450, though it was slightly risky being a CTT. On the other hand the current candle is forming a BUOB. Ofcourse we have to wait for the candle to close. The problem is it that it is not at swing low and at best can be considered as trend continuation.
Your comments pls.
BTW I sent a mail to you.
Cheers
Novice 198
If I may...

A close below 15450 would have cleared the traffic on the setup while giving the BEOB a more authoritative make up as well.

We have a long term up trend going and we need something special to reverse this, not that this beob was totally untradable but then such setups are usually always good to the FTA at best, and you can't complain along those lines on this setup.

The obvious FTA (15450) was way too close, and held which should be of no surprise.

(ignore the trade you see on the chart)

g.
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I believe . . .
  • #69,808
  • Jul 27, 2010 8:29am Jul 27, 2010 8:29am
Quoting ghous
If I may...

A close below 15450 would have cleared the traffic on the setup while giving the BEOB a more authoritative make up as well.

We have a long term up trend going and we need something special to reverse this, not that this beob was totally untradable but then such setups are usually always good to the FTA at best, and you can't complain along those lines on this setup.

The obvious FTA (15450) was way too close, and held which should be of no surprise.

g.
Agreed nice G, I got flooded on these two setups today. Here was my post.

Hey Guys

I got a lot of emails/PMs about the two cable so i will cover them both here and in my webinar later today.

The BEOB was just flat out too small. Direction wise I prefer to the downside(that is what I will speak about the BUOB). So for the BEOB that was an easy pass for me. The bar itself wasn't even 100 pips and on the cable 4hr that is nothing vs that recent strong up move.

As for the BUOB, a better bar for sure, but we have all these xxx/usd pairs that are over bought and at important points, cable euro, nzd, aud etc. Just like J said here. For me I can't pull the trigger on that one. If you had a much bigger bar then I would be more comfortable trading it here. So I passed on this one as well.
  • #69,809
  • Jul 27, 2010 8:45am Jul 27, 2010 8:45am
Quoting mbqb11
Agreed nice G, I got flooded on these two setups today....
Agreed, waiting for some clear bearish xxx/usd price action at some key levels with space to move, looks like I jumped the gun on NZD/USD, although if I had bothered to look at the Daily there were some pretty nice technical Elliot waves in play against that weekly PB which would have made me think twice about taking it....

Building a PA picture over multiple time frames can given you a much clearer picture.
In retrospect we learn. In perspective we earn.
  • #69,810
  • Jul 27, 2010 8:55am Jul 27, 2010 8:55am
Quoting jopollin
It all just seems like a real long-winded way to grind out a few % equity gain with multiple opportunities passing by.

I bet there are plenty of people who come here and only take it to this level, the SR is spot on, the price flip zones are great, but they can be played regardless of PA. PA is a by-product of your own settings.
yep you are correct I am quite happy avg 5-10% a month

Hey it isn't for everyone but I guess no more reason to hang around it either lol
  • #69,811
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:01am Jul 27, 2010 9:01am
Quoting jopollin
...they can be played regardless of PA. PA is a by-product of your own settings.
we hear u.
we all are eager to hear more.
  • #69,812
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:05am Jul 27, 2010 9:05am
Quoting jopollin
the SR is spot on, the price flip zones are great, but they can be played regardless of PA
I would be interested to see how you are playing them, please demonstrate.

Quoting jopollin
PA is a by-product of your own settings.
Yes, and a traders results/return is a by-product of their interpretation of the information they are using to base their decisions on.

If there are more reliable, higher return opportunities then please demonstrate as I'm sure other traders would like to understand them.

We are here to learn, please share.
In retrospect we learn. In perspective we earn.
  • #69,813
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:08am Jul 27, 2010 9:08am
Quoting jopollin
FX-Heaven

LOL here we go. The instant attack, the animal instinct.

No, I have nothing to sell, I wouldn't really know what you would expect me to sell after my first post??

My praise is for selflessness of Jim but I think he was VERY careful to not overdo it for newbies so he never went into more general PA rules, he wanted something solid to teach, to his credit.

His PA at SR areas is great, yes, but you are missing out on opportunities by waiting and waiting for perfect PA setups when it's all down to your datafeed and timeframe...
Now I see posts asking for more information so never wanting to miss anything useful....

Do you have any recommendations of sites - links etc I can look at to get an idea about the areas you mention?

I was interested to see you introduced your piece by talking about charts looking different between time zones - I posted a chart yesterday where one poster had said there was a good pin bar but it was not on my chart but then I had had a couple of sessions previously which he did not.
  • #69,814
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:08am Jul 27, 2010 9:08am
Quoting supremeChaos
we hear u.
we all are eager to hear more.
yeah we call it touch trading, we just don't promote that until someone is familiar enough with S/R and learning to trade off PA confirmation of high quality setups is much easier in my opinion. You have a new trader who is taking 30 trades a week and grinding their account down, and show them touch trading they will still have 30+. You teach a trader a high quality bar in a high quality location and tell that trader to take the best 3-5 a month. Now that trader learns what it is like to see their account go up not down

Best
Mike
  • #69,815
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:12am Jul 27, 2010 9:12am
Quoting mbqb11
yeah we call it touch trading, we just don't promote that until someone is familiar enough with S/R and learning to trade off PA confirmation of high quality setups is much easier in my opinion. You have a new trader who is taking 30 trades a week and grinding their account down, and show them touch trading they will still have 30+. You teach a trader a high quality bar in a high quality location and tell that trader to take the best 3-5 a month. Now that trader learns what it is like to see their account go up not down

Best
Mike
yes - quality versus quantity
In retrospect we learn. In perspective we earn.
  • #69,816
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:16am Jul 27, 2010 9:16am
Anyone long USD/CAD? I entered on the break of the 4H PB. it was on a PPZ and 1.03 BRN. FTA is 1.035. It's always easy to comment in hindsight so I thought i'd post it as soon as I took it I know it's not a great setup but is it one that you can still take as long as youre conservative or is it best to avoid it alltogether an wait for a better one?
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  • #69,817
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:18am Jul 27, 2010 9:18am
Quoting mbqb11
yeah we call it touch trading, we just don't promote that until someone is familiar enough with S/R and learning to trade off PA confirmation of high quality setups is much easier in my opinion. You have a new trader who is taking 30 trades a week and grinding their account down, and show them touch trading they will still have 30+. You teach a trader a high quality bar in a high quality location and tell that trader to take the best 3-5 a month. Now that trader learns what it is like to see their account go up not down

Best
Mike
I also wanted to add since we have brought this all up and heck I am in the mood. I avg just under 10 trades a month this year(just did the numbers). This included 1hr and up with the occasional 30min/15min/5min but very rare maybe 1 all year.

Everyone has to find their niche. I have mine. James has his. Jopollin has his too.

We just try to keep new traders on a path of learning and building rather then destruction, that is all my point. I hope Jopollin wants to post here more too. If you are nice (which he has been) we want you on our thread.

Mike
  • #69,818
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:20am Jul 27, 2010 9:20am
If touch trading is what this is about then J16 does this but not on the free thread.
There are several techniques used but not everything is here.
  • #69,819
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:20am Jul 27, 2010 9:20am
Quoting Rustam
Anyone long USD/CAD? I entered on the break of the 4H PB. it was on a PPZ and 1.3 BRN. FTA is 1.35. It's always easy to comment in hindsight so I thought i'd post it as soon as I took it I know it's not a great setup but is it one that you can still take as long as youre conservative or is it best to avoid it alltogether an wait for a better one?
"or is it best to avoid it alltogether an wait for a better one?"
from my point of view: yes. because it is running (or already in) into big traffic. take a look at the bars before the pinbar.
meine augen sind die sterne
  • #69,820
  • Jul 27, 2010 9:25am Jul 27, 2010 9:25am
Quoting mbqb11
I also wanted to add since we have brought this all up and heck I am in the mood....

Yeah, I agree with Mikes comment.

James and you guys are helping us to primarily not self destruct with our emotions and indeed our physical accounts.
I also know that James has self destructed a lot of accounts and basically this is why he is so concerned about new people.

Not emotionally self destructing is survival after which we learn the patience to take high probability trades and get on the path to growing an account rather than depleting it.
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