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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #5,601
  • Jul 23, 2010 2:21am Jul 23, 2010 2:21am
Quoting fxoxford
im not trying to promote any broker but PFGBEST MT-4 ECN PLATFORM is much stable.
Yeah, right

Don't get me wrong, I've been satisfied with MBT, my account has grown quite well from 400 bucks with good fills and reasonable CS, no complaints.

But this last case really rocked my boat, I'm scared to touch the platform now and depending on the next move by them, could be a fast move away for me.
  • #5,602
  • Jul 23, 2010 5:57am Jul 23, 2010 5:57am
Quoting pa18
Yeah, right

Don't get me wrong, I've been satisfied with MBT, my account has grown quite well from 400 bucks with good fills and reasonable CS, no complaints.

But this last case really rocked my boat, I'm scared to touch the platform now and depending on the next move by them, could be a fast move away for me.
Just to add to what a couple of people have already said, I use the MT4 strictly for charting and the Navigator for trading and have never had a problem.
  • #5,603
  • Jul 23, 2010 10:10am Jul 23, 2010 10:10am
Quoting kuhasu
A friend just send me a pic for MBTF
Time zone GMT+8


http://ecceyw.blu.livefilestore.com/...9%E8%AF%AF.JPG
Other than the cool building in the background, is a 10-second chart supposed to mean something to us?
  • #5,604
  • Jul 23, 2010 10:16am Jul 23, 2010 10:16am
Quoting usw
Is it possible to provide liquidity inside the spread with MB Trading? Say best bid is 1.40075 and best ask is 1.40085, I place a limit sell at 1.40080; shouldn't I fill any market buy orders that come in? When I've tried this on the demo my limit order isn't filled until the bid price rises to my limit sell price(which is no more advantageous than if I had waited for the bid to get there and then sold at market). For this to occur, wouldn't it have to be that no market buy orders were placed, and some one set a buy limit at 1.40080? Is this because...
Usw,

Yes, your example is correct…in the Live environment. In Demo, you can still put in a limit order and it will display in the quote (lower the offer in your example), but there’s no real trades occurring in demo.
  • #5,605
  • Jul 23, 2010 10:24am Jul 23, 2010 10:24am
Quoting Trader KGB
Going to agree with shrike here. Very peculiar that execution would be rejected against all those higher bids..

Also, the admission that your LPs have the right to reject the order, despite displaying the bid in your ECN, is a bit disconcerting (and reminiscent of Currenex's infamous "last look"). Now I'm curious how IB would have handled this. Hotspot just had an uptick in my book..
Yes Hotspot appears to be one of the few that actually act as genuine matching venue (ala Globex), whereas most others appear to just aggregate LP quotes, route to the best bid/offer-destination and see what comes back.
  • #5,606
  • Jul 23, 2010 11:59am Jul 23, 2010 11:59am
Quoting shrike
Yes Hotspot appears to be one of the few that actually act as genuine matching venue (ala Globex), whereas most others appear to just aggregate LP quotes, route to the best bid/offer-destination and see what comes back.
Shrike,

We do both. That’s why you’ll often get multiple fills even on an order of 20 minis. The banks would always show hundreds of lots at a price, but since we go to the tenth of a pip, there could literally be a customer trying to buy 1 or 2 minis at 1.28104 and then another customer at 1.28103. You’ll get each fill for the size that is there. Those are the ECN fills and they are the fastest. The bank quotes require that we route out to a bank. While they are usually good for big size, in a fast market, they are updating rapidly and we have to route out to them and get a reply back.
  • #5,607
  • Edited Jul 24, 2010 2:26am Jul 23, 2010 12:39pm | Edited Jul 24, 2010 2:26am
Quoting wannatradefx
Other than the cool building in the background, is a 10-second chart supposed to mean something to us?

1,i was posting some suggestions but the moderator blocked my reply.
2,whatever the time frame,check the live data.For 5min,the same!
Is that clear?
  • #5,608
  • Jul 23, 2010 12:42pm Jul 23, 2010 12:42pm
Quoting jleblang
Shrike,...
Justin: what percentage of the fills on MB are client to client and how many are client to bank (guessing thats top-secret info..)? From watching L2 it seems that 99% of the time LPs sit on the inside quotes.

Also, does that mean the quotes from LPs are indicative only, since when a client-order gets routed to them, they can still decide if the fill it or not?

Unfortunately noone ever publishes a rule-book on the exact order-mechanisms - like exchanges do, and that creates a whole lot of questions and uncertainty about LP-privileges and so on(not just with MBT, but in general). Its also hard to dispute a fill when there are no clear rules, like in pa18's case. The most level playing field for traders would be straight FIFO markets with price/time-priority ala EBS or CME (and possibly hotspot), but i guess thats not that popular with LPs and brokerages.
  • #5,609
  • Jul 23, 2010 1:50pm Jul 23, 2010 1:50pm
Quoting shrike
Justin: what percentage of the fills on MB are client to client and how...
Shrike,

I don’t know the exact percent of trades that are client to client. I might be able to check. Keep in mind that most customers are simply buying and selling at market, and then the next most common order is a stop order to get into a trade or out. Limit orders are far less frequently used, but those are the ones that serve a purpose in the ECN and display to everyone else. We do have plenty of limit orders that go into the system, but I also don’t think people realize how fast some of the computerized trading systems eat up those orders in fast markets. But I’m sure any client that places even 10 mini lot trades with us gets partial fills frequently. A partial fill on something that small means there were some customer limit orders in the other direction. Banks would never partial fill something like that. Most of them won’t even partial fill something under 100 full lots.

Our orders are handled 100% as a FIFO system and I agree with you about the most level playing field. That’s what we always imagined that FX would go to, but you are 100% correct that the traditional LPs and deal desks have no interest in getting to that model sooner than they have to. The more they can prevent it, the longer the money keeps flowing for them. A perfect FX model would be a fluid system where you are just grabbing size up and down from one location based on net buyers and sellers. The funny thing is, people now expect fills down to the tenth of a pip (because we provide it). But at the pip to pip level, it tends to be very fluid. Think of it like this. Let’s say that on a EURUSD with a 3-pip fixed spread of 1.2810 by 1.2813, how much liquidity was at 1.2813. Now, we got quotes down to the tenth of a pip where the quote is 1.28113 by 1.28119 or something. If you add up all of the liquidity from the 1.28113 bid down to 1.2810, there’s a lot there, just staggered at 1/10th of a pip increments. It’s still probably the same net as what was just at 1.2810 two years ago, so there is price tightening and we can see it in modeling software. But people shouldn’t confuse that for the idea that “you see a bid, you get a fill.” It’s more like, “There is a bid, but you have to get there before enough other people do to eat up that bid.” Just because you see a bid on a chart doesn’t mean you know how much size was there. Let’s say it was a mini contract. Let’s say 1000 customers are selling. See the point? Same if you go from the 1.28119 offer up to 1.2813. This is the same as the old stock world a decade ago when quotes went from fractions to decimals. At first, there wasn’t a lot of liquidity inside of an eight of a point. Over years, there was because people got used to it and trading in those increments. Forex is taking steps to head that direction.

In all honesty, the fastest way for it to happen is for traders to move away from the deal desks to platforms (I won’t even say just ours alone) that order match and display everything. If the retail order flow is content playing with the desks in one form or another, then that impedes the move away from those control factors and toward what I think you and I agree would be the ultimate environment.
  • #5,610
  • Jul 23, 2010 5:32pm Jul 23, 2010 5:32pm
Quoting fxchant
I don't think the question is whether there were bids, the question is whether the bank was still taking fills in a fast market as the orders were routed to them. A bid on a chart doesn't prove an execution.
Are you saying banks can do everything to steal our money. They show bid, but doesn't fulfill - then it's a joke and discrimination.

Just to add to discussion of strange action on 21st July with GBPUSD. My stop-loss order at 1.5256, filled at the worst possible price (70 pips lower!!!), 64 seconds after Market order was allready at the server live !!!

7/21/2010 2:56:56 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000Sell 18000 GBP/USD @Mkt on MBTX GTC
7/21/2010 2:56:56 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000GTC Go: Sell 18000 GBP/USD @Mkt on MBTX GTC
7/21/2010 2:56:56 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000Live: Sell 18000 GBP/USD @Mkt on MBTX
7/21/2010 2:58:00 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000Sold 18000 GBP/USD @ 1.51843

This is how Market orders work with "superior" ECN. What is funny I've had the same positions with 2 other MM brokers - no problem with filling exactly at 1.5256 price !!!
  • #5,611
  • Jul 23, 2010 9:30pm Jul 23, 2010 9:30pm
Quoting kuhasu
1,i was posting some suggestions but the moderator block my reply.
2,whatever the time frame,check the live data.For 5min,the same!
Is that clear?
Actually, I'd like to know where you got the wallpaper. I like it.
  • #5,612
  • Jul 23, 2010 9:38pm Jul 23, 2010 9:38pm
Quoting steve930
Actually, I'd like to know where you got the wallpaper. I like it.
I trust there is Hong Kong Some where.........
  • #5,613
  • Edited 8:10am Jul 24, 2010 2:33am | Edited 8:10am
Quoting Buildcity
I trust there is Hong Kong Some where.........

.....Tianjin city,China

http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&n...w=1259&bih=829

And here's a pic for Dalian,China
http://img3.cache.netease.com/photo/...NC19BR0001.jpg
  • #5,614
  • Jul 24, 2010 6:58am Jul 24, 2010 6:58am
Hi,

do you offer MT4 mobile? Or do you support it if I buy it from metaquotes?

Thanks
13
Brokers are angels
  • #5,615
  • Jul 24, 2010 8:42pm Jul 24, 2010 8:42pm
Quoting pavikogm
Are you saying banks can do everything to steal our money. They show bid, but doesn't fulfill - then it's a joke and discrimination.

Just to add to discussion of strange action on 21st July with GBPUSD. My stop-loss order at 1.5256, filled at the worst possible price (70 pips lower!!!), 64 seconds after Market order was allready at the server live !!!

7/21/2010 2:56:56 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000Sell 18000 GBP/USD @Mkt on MBTX GTC
7/21/2010 2:56:56 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000GTC Go: Sell 18000 GBP/USD @Mkt...
It is 'cause your latency connecting to their server. You need have VPS server near MBT datacenter.

I have same issue before..After I sigup VPS account near them, my latency reduce from 80ms to 1ms.
  • #5,616
  • Jul 24, 2010 9:02pm Jul 24, 2010 9:02pm
Here is reason why I dig into the problem. It has about 90 ms delay which explain the execute time.


My VPS account with 1and1.com

C:>ping 216.52.236.97 -t

Pinging 216.52.236.97 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=91ms TTL=112
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=90ms TTL=112
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=95ms TTL=112
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=123ms TTL=112
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=93ms TTL=112

Ping statistics for 216.52.236.97:
Packets: Sent = 10, Received = 10, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 89ms, Maximum = 236ms, Average = 120ms
Control-C
^C
C:>


My VPS account with photonvps
C:>ping -t 216.52.236.97

Pinging 216.52.236.97 with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=118
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=118
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=118
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=118
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=1ms TTL=118
Reply from 216.52.236.97: bytes=32 time=2ms TTL=118

Ping statistics for 216.52.236.97:
Packets: Sent = 6, Received = 6, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 1ms, Maximum = 2ms, Average = 1ms
  • #5,617
  • Jul 25, 2010 1:48am Jul 25, 2010 1:48am
Quoting trendbreak
It is 'cause your latency connecting to their server. You need have VPS server near MBT datacenter.

I have same issue before..After I sigup VPS account near them, my latency reduce from 80ms to 1ms.

Are you kidding?
64sec......maybe the server of MBT is on the Moon....
  • #5,618
  • Jul 25, 2010 2:31am Jul 25, 2010 2:31am
Quoting trendbreak
It is 'cause your latency connecting to their server. You need have VPS server near MBT datacenter.

I have same issue before..After I sigup VPS account near them, my latency reduce from 80ms to 1ms.
Latency doesn't affect execution unless you are running an EA.
  • #5,619
  • Jul 25, 2010 4:47am Jul 25, 2010 4:47am
Quoting trendbreak
It is 'cause your latency connecting to their server. You need have VPS server near MBT datacenter.

I have same issue before..After I sigup VPS account near them, my latency reduce from 80ms to 1ms.
You are wrong. As I've written, the order was allready executed on MBT at 2:56:56 AM and was holded for another 64 second on their server, read carefully:

7/21/2010 2:56:56 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000Live: Sell 18000 GBP/USD @Mkt on MBTX
7/21/2010 2:58:00 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000Sold 18000 GBP/USD @ 1.51843

Latency doesn't have anything to do with it.
  • #5,620
  • Edited 5:46am Jul 25, 2010 5:33am | Edited 5:46am
Quoting pavikogm
You are wrong. As I've written, the order was allready executed on MBT at 2:56:56 AM and was holded for another 64 second on their server, read carefully:

7/21/2010 2:56:56 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000Live: Sell 18000 GBP/USD @Mkt on MBTX
7/21/2010 2:58:00 AM1kae82s:036aGBP/USD18000Sold 18000 GBP/USD @ 1.51843

Latency doesn't have anything to do with it.
MBT's description of Navigator at their site says they have sell stop limits. What bothers me is it also says they don't allow a 'discretionary' price range for forex, and their competitor (unless MBT objects to this phrase) FXCM Micro does.
So in a fast market, you may have to wait an extra trend to fill some or all of one's sell stop limit; this'd break the original idea of the trade and also may never happen.
I guess what I'm saying is that if you had used a sell stop limit that had a reasonable area around the limit to exit the trade on, any fast market could be traded. I don't see here that MBT uses this notion to allow trades with.

If the moderator could suggest a way to fulfill this notion, what to use to get any order type or which order types that has a reasonable area around the limit to exit the forex trade on, that'd be great.
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