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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #5,561
  • Jul 21, 2010 9:01am Jul 21, 2010 9:01am
Quoting kuhasu
As far as I know,clients can choose brokers,they can withdraw their money from mb trading because there are too much problems whatever you say.So it depends on what you do.Except you dont care actually.

Both Quote and Order server connection lost And orders can not be confirmed but no err msg are very serious problems.
Huh?
  • #5,562
  • Jul 21, 2010 9:29am Jul 21, 2010 9:29am
Quoting pa18
Hi Justin,

My long GU trade just got spiked (21/07). My long was 1:30pm 1.52863.

I had a hard stop place on the MT4 platform of 10 pips but the spike went so fast that I managed to close it minus 100 pips.

What is MBT policy on honoring stops?

Thanks and sincerely,
Pete
Pa18,

Stop orders turn into market orders once the price is hit. Our system then attempts to hit the liquidity providers. I see that last night around 3 am EST, the GBPUSD spiked over 100 pips in around a minute. That’s a pretty big spike, and we don’t see that a ton anymore, but it was a real spike, and means that there isn’t a lot of liquidity at the time.
  • #5,563
  • Jul 21, 2010 9:41am Jul 21, 2010 9:41am
Quoting jleblang
Pa18,

Stop orders turn into market orders once the price is hit. Our system then attempts to hit the liquidity providers. I see that last night around 3 am EST, the GBPUSD spiked over 100 pips in around a minute. That’s a pretty big spike, and we don’t see that a ton anymore, but it was a real spike, and means that there isn’t a lot of liquidity at the time.
Justin,

I don't understand, your 3am EST is my frankfurt london open so liquidity is the issue and your system couldn't find a counterparty for my stop loss order?

Pete
  • #5,564
  • Jul 21, 2010 9:58am Jul 21, 2010 9:58am
Quoting jleblang
Pa18,

Stop orders turn into market orders once the price is hit. Our system then attempts to hit the liquidity providers. I see that last night around 3 am EST, the GBPUSD spiked over 100 pips in around a minute. That’s a pretty big spike, and we don’t see that a ton anymore, but it was a real spike, and means that there isn’t a lot of liquidity at the time.

If he had indeed a pending stop-sell order at 1.5276, it seems to me he should have been filled somewhere around that price and not that far away. Attached is a 1-tick chart of bid-price updates from the MB live server of the time in question. As you can see, there are quite a few prints at and below 5276.

pa18: what exactly was your stop-price and where was it filled?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #5,565
  • Edited 11:23am Jul 21, 2010 10:11am | Edited 11:23am
TicketOpen TimeTypeSizeItemPriceS / LT / PClose TimePriceCommissionTaxesSwapProfit

8360272010.07.21 01:45buyXXXgbpusd1.528631.527500.000002010.07.21 02:571.51905
  • #5,566
  • Jul 21, 2010 1:26pm Jul 21, 2010 1:26pm
Feed Back:
open 15 min chart for e/u and g/u there is something wrong with price feed
while it was 1.2750 with other brokers it was 1.2805
  • #5,567
  • Jul 21, 2010 1:39pm Jul 21, 2010 1:39pm
Same with eur/jpy!

There's a 77 pip gap starting 30 minutes ago.
  • #5,568
  • Jul 21, 2010 1:42pm Jul 21, 2010 1:42pm
current live vers demo .. MBT

Live missing a 15 min bar, couldn't log in during that time on live as well.

Fed Chairman reaction....
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  • #5,569
  • Jul 21, 2010 2:58pm Jul 21, 2010 2:58pm
I just confirmed through MBT they had another server problem earlier. No estimated time for repair. I am a former institutional trader and I opened an account with MBT after leaving my bank / broker employment in December. I wanted to test their liquidity feed against other brokers and vs. futures execution. This would allow me to determine where to place primary assets for trading. I have tested MBT-MT4, IBFX, IB (Interactive Brokers) & RCG-Zen Fire / Ninja Trader (futures).

I heard from a few other traders back around June 16th when MBT had the server problems and erroneous trades and I was surprised at the stance the company took. Thankfully I was not trading that morning.

I have noticed considerable slippage sneaking into some of my trades. I have not received similar slippage from IB or RCG (currency futures). I cannot comment on IBFX as I have not raised the position size there yet. The problem with IB is their back office is horrible and I heard MBT was better at this. I agree MBT is better at back office support but if the server has consistent problems and the trades have occassional slippage, not supported by other broker T&S (time & sales) data or actual executions, then MBT has a big problem that kindness from the back office support cannot cover up.

I will be closing my account with MBT. I do not have time to worry with or hassle arguing with someone over slippage and server issues. I hope this review has been helpful and I am sorry for the negativity but I wanted to weigh in on these issues as some of the others have also.
  • #5,570
  • Jul 21, 2010 3:01pm Jul 21, 2010 3:01pm
Quoting tommyd
current live vers demo .. MBT

Live missing a 15 min bar, couldn't log in during that time on live as well.

Fed Chairman reaction....
Are you getting this in 5-minute or 1-minute bars as well?
  • #5,571
  • Jul 21, 2010 3:18pm Jul 21, 2010 3:18pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
I just confirmed through MBT they had another server problem earlier. No estimated time for repair. I am a former institutional trader and I opened an account with MBT after leaving my bank / broker employment in December. I wanted to test their liquidity feed against other brokers and vs. futures execution. This would allow me to determine where to place primary assets for trading. I have tested MBT-MT4, IBFX, IB (Interactive Brokers) & RCG-Zen Fire / Ninja Trader (futures).

I heard from a few other traders back around June 16th when MBT had...
Pipr pro,

I don’t believe we experienced any outage today and there is no “ETA” on repair because we aren’t down. I’m seeing full charts without gaps in Desktop and Meta in Live and Demo. Not aware of any execution issues other than I know the market activity got very heavy out of the blue around 2 pm EST today on Bernanke’s comments, which also means that the liquidity providers were getting hit pretty hard at that moment. I would be happy to discuss what you mean by “slippage” issues if you can send me some detail. We have order types that can control slippage.
  • #5,572
  • Jul 21, 2010 3:35pm Jul 21, 2010 3:35pm
Quoting jleblang
Pipr pro,

I don’t believe we experienced any outage today and there is no “ETA” on repair because we aren’t down. I’m seeing full charts without gaps in Desktop and Meta in Live and Demo. Not aware of any execution issues other than I know the market activity got very heavy out of the blue around 2 pm EST today on Bernanke’s comments, which also means that the liquidity providers were getting hit pretty hard at that moment. I would be happy to discuss what you mean by “slippage” issues if you can send me some detail. We have order types that can...

Justin - STOP- this really amazes me. Every person I know that uses MBT currently has missing data on LIVE accounts. I called your help desk 866-558-3342 about 1 hour ago. They advised me there WAS a server problem earlier and did NOT have an ETA for repair. You are obviously mis-informed. The slippage was not a Bernanke issue - it was over multiple trades the last few weeks. I am on the phone NOW confirming the data issues again with MBT - The help desk agrees. They are transferring me to you.
  • #5,573
  • Jul 21, 2010 3:43pm Jul 21, 2010 3:43pm
Justin - they have stated you are in a meeting and unavailable to answer the phone. I have left my name and phone number for you to return the call.

Please issue a retraction of your statement above as soon as you learn of your mistake about your servers and data feed issue.
  • #5,574
  • Jul 21, 2010 4:09pm Jul 21, 2010 4:09pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
Justin - they have stated you are in a meeting and unavailable to answer the phone. I have left my name and phone number for you to return the call.

Please issue a retraction of your statement above as soon as you learn of your mistake about your servers and data feed issue.
A picture(s) is worth a thousand words. MBT is missing data regardless of the reason (Bernanke). This is the case on most charts and multiple timeframes.
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  • #5,575
  • Jul 21, 2010 5:42pm Jul 21, 2010 5:42pm
Quoting PiPr Pro
A picture(s) is worth a thousand words. MBT is missing data regardless of the reason (Bernanke). This is the case on most charts and multiple timeframes.
Pipr pro,

Nope, I’ve discussed this with both the head of the trade desk and the head of our MetaTrader system, and I can put you in touch with either.

Here’s what I know.

 

  1. There was a heavy wave of volume on the Bernanke comments.
  2. Occasionally you get a slow response, especially people using limit orders, during that sort of activity. It lasted less than 5 minutes. It’s really no different than when an important economic number comes out. Activity gets heavy for a few minutes and the liquidity providers are scrambling all over the place reacting just like the rest of the traders.
  3. There was no burden of calls on the Trade Desk, not enough calls about any issues to even tie up our traders and have people on hold. Anyone that did call in for whatever reason, their trades closed immediately over the phone as per normal.
  4. There are no reports of trades that we could not close or execute (just to be very clear). This is as opposed to the general event on 6/16.
  5. No one is working to fix anything, nothing is down, thus there is no ETA for any repairs of anything. Please stop indicating otherwise, although I would like to know who exactly is telling you that we are currently working to fix something.
  6. MBT Desktop charts had no issues. There are reports of some people having missing data in Metatrader at that time. However, all indications are that charting resumed a few minutes later, and after that, if you right-click on the chart and hit Refresh, according to everyone that I’ve spoken to, that fills in the data and has since right after the gaps occurred. So please let me know if refreshing the chart for you doesn’t fill in the data, because it should have this whole time. Quote servers and trade servers are different, which means that…
  7. The price gaps on the charts for customers didn’t translate into missed stops or limits executing for customers during this window. In other words, just because your Client software didn’t receive that data, it didn’t prevent any limit or stop orders that you had in the system on our servers from executing.


If anyone is still looking into anything, it might be to try to figure out why customers stopped receiving the quote data during those minutes. However, that is not an active problem or something that is pending for trading to resume. One final time: There is not a disruption in trading, this was not an outage or any type of event similar, there is no ETA to fix anything because nothing is wrong. I agree with you that people were missing chart data. However, I don’t agree that that is an ongoing problem. That data was available minutes later simply by refreshing your chart. If you still can’t fill in the gap with a refresh, then please contact me and I will look into it further and you can work with our team to find out why yours won’t fill in.

Here’s what I think. I think at the time, because of the strange time of day for all of the activity and because there were issues with MetaTrader charts, I think there was a little buzz out in the trading world that something might be going wrong at the time, but I can’t find any indication that problems were experienced based on call ins in terms of trades not executing or anything that they couldn’t close or anything that took more than the course of a normal conversation. This occurred right after 2 pm EST. I need the names of anyone that you spoke to after, let’s say, 3 pm EST that said that there was “No ETA on fixes” and what they were referring to that needed to be fixed because it simply isn’t true.

Thanks

  • #5,576
  • Jul 21, 2010 6:18pm Jul 21, 2010 6:18pm
Quoting shrike
If he had indeed a pending stop-sell order at 1.5276, it seems to me he should have been filled somewhere around that price and not that far away. Attached is a 1-tick chart of bid-price updates from the MB live server of the time in question. As you can see, there are quite a few prints at and below 5276.

pa18: what exactly was your stop-price and where was it filled?
justin, please comment on this, it seems that he should have been stopped out at a better price even if it have spiked. . .
  • #5,577
  • Jul 21, 2010 6:32pm Jul 21, 2010 6:32pm
Quoting jleblang
Are you getting this in 5-minute or 1-minute bars as well?
The 1 min chart did not show any gap that I could see but the 5 minute chart had a 3 bar gap in data from 13:55 to 14:15 of no data.
It has since filled in missing data...
  • #5,578
  • Jul 21, 2010 6:55pm Jul 21, 2010 6:55pm
Justin,

Does MBT have a compliance department? If so can you give me the supervisor name and direct telephone number please.

Not sure if I see a pattern but when I deposit funds, customer service is great, but when I start reasonable complaints, no one is around to answer me.

Pete
  • #5,579
  • Jul 21, 2010 7:10pm Jul 21, 2010 7:10pm
Quoting MikeX
justin, please comment on this, it seems that he should have been stopped out at a better price even if it have spiked. . .
Mikex,

I haven’t reviewed his trade specifically. Used to be that forex saw huge spikes like that all of the time, but we don’t see them much anymore (meaning 100 pips in a minute or so, pretty crazy). In that environment, it’s just about what bank finally gives a fill as they all scramble to move out of the way once his order fires. The system keeps trying to hit the best bid by sending a trade at that bid price. When they decline because they were already hit, we get the order back and resend to another bank at whatever bid. 100 pips in 60 seconds is a lot of movement and it is very possible that every route was on the move too quickly (which also explains how quickly the price jumped back 100 pips, they basically got surprised by the news at the time and pulled most of the liquidity out of the market). We don’t see it much anymore, but it is a risk factor in the market. Note that if you are getting INTO a position with a stop order, we suggest using a Stop Limit on our Desktop system because you can put the stop at the price that would trigger your order and a limit at the “worst price” you’d take in a fast market. Of course, if you are exiting a trade, this doesn’t really apply because you could end up with no fill, and that’s not what you want. But on entry, a situation like this is exactly why most of our traders use Stop Limit, so that would never happen. Unfortunately, we can’t translate that order type over to MetaTrader 4.
  • #5,580
  • Jul 21, 2010 8:02pm Jul 21, 2010 8:02pm
I had an outage on my MT4 platform during the period that's in question, but my eSig charts which get data direct from MBT servers(via eSig) were fine. Strangely though, it wasn't an outage like usual, where it just stopped, all the while displaying that the connection status was fine. It came up as "common error" on the platform where the connection status is displayed.
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