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Psychology is nothing

  • #181
  • Jul 21, 2010 6:17am Jul 21, 2010 6:17am
Blue Ruby

Yes, please let us Know, if three years have enlightened you in any way.

I am sure there are a few who would be interested to know about your progress. (or lack of)
  • #182
  • Jul 21, 2010 6:48am Jul 21, 2010 6:48am
What a controversy Thread title...

Surely you have received much of different opinion than you.

Psycology & Skill are both important.

It is like the argument of a topic:
Is Nature Talent more important or is Nurturing more important?
  • #183
  • Dec 30, 2012 10:12am Dec 30, 2012 10:12am
Quoting mike w

P.S. "Knowledge" is nothing if it isn't coupled with wisdom. I can "KNOW" what I should be doing at a certain point, but it's something totally different to hold the wisdom in order to actually DO it.
That's exactly the point.

If you have a system you know works, but you don't DO it for whatever reason, fear, reaction, emotion, etc., that's psychology. You have a system, but you get afraid and jump out, or take a trade when your system says not to. Why do that? Psychology.

If you have a system you know works, and you trade it and make money without any drama, reaction, emotion, what does psychology have to do with that? Nothing. Nothing. Once again, NOTHING.

The point, for all that seem to have missed it, is, that the key is having a working system.

I never found one, at least not one that worked for more than a short time. I had to go back to work.

I recently met a professional trader who is willing to train me. I programmed an EA for him, and he gave me an EA he says works. It's now running on a live account.

If psychology is a necessary factor, how could an EA work? It's just trading a system, not thinking. If it does make money, then psychology is absolutely not a factor, and that proves it. We shall see!
  • #184
  • Dec 30, 2012 11:54am Dec 30, 2012 11:54am
Quoting blueruby
Psychology is nothing

Knowing is the entire game.

Do you feel fear, greed, worry, or any other emotions when you, for example, fill up your car?

I know a rather “blond-between-the-ears” PhD who was a spoon-fed brat from birth, she was the youngest child, everything was handed to her, pretty much.

[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Well, the first time she went to fill...

Not a very good analogy. I mean I'm sure that most have the intellectual capacity to see that psychology won't help you fill the gas tank up. The markets are a collective psychology of all the players. If they weren't then the efficient market hypothesis would hold up, but it doesn't. So I would have to disagree and say that psychology is everything.
  • #185
  • Dec 31, 2012 9:24am Dec 31, 2012 9:24am
EQ triumphs over IQ....but both are very important ....I have average IQ and I believe higher than average EQ.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #186
  • Jan 3, 2013 12:43am Jan 3, 2013 12:43am
We are a duplicity - in that we have both an instinctual nature and we have a mental/thinking nature.

We live our lives predominantly through our instinctive nature, and use our mind when we need to. Proof of this would be to ask yourself how much of your driving is done with your mind. Clearly we need it to read traffic signs ect, but we learnt to drive by thinking things through until they became instinctual - after that instinct largely runs the show. This is why we are able to multi-task while driving (turn the wheel, push the accelerator, move the gear-stick, monitor the road) - and still think about what we are going to cook for dinner. If our mind was being used extensively - our thoughts would not be able to wander whilst driving - but they do.

Trading is the same - we need to teach ourself our rules and system and setup ect - until it is instinctual. After that - as long as we follow the rules and habits we have developed - we can trade instinctively and make a profit.

Thought must first drive instinct when learning a new skill - then instinct takes over.

It was a nice glib title - but it is not entirely accurate.

The offshoot of this information is that:

If you can't follow your own rules while you trade you are dead.

If you don't systematically teach your instinct each part of your trading technique until it is automatic you won't make it in this game.

Psychology can be 'nothing' at the end of the process, but certainly not at the beginning.
Enter Signature
  • #187
  • Jan 3, 2013 12:50am Jan 3, 2013 12:50am
Quoting blueruby
Psychology is nothing

Knowing is the entire game.

Do you feel fear, greed, worry, or any other emotions when you, for example, fill up your car?

I know a rather “blond-between-the-ears” PhD who was a spoon-fed brat from birth, she was the youngest child, everything was handed to her, pretty much.

[font=Times New Roman][size=3]Well, the first time she went to fill...
think you have taken some words said out of context. If you're not profitable sure thinking positive might not solve the problem. But if you have a decent method but you can't follow the rules then the psychology aspect is your problem.
The best indicator is price.
  • #188
  • Jan 3, 2013 1:29pm Jan 3, 2013 1:29pm
Quoting blueruby
That's exactly the point.

If you have a system you know works, but you don't DO it for whatever reason, fear, reaction, emotion, etc., that's psychology. You have a system, but you get afraid and jump out, or take a trade when your system says not to. Why do that? Psychology.

If you have a system you know works, and you trade it and make money without any drama, reaction, emotion, what does psychology have to do with that? Nothing. Nothing. Once again, NOTHING.

The point, for all that seem to have missed it, is, that the key is having a working...
Truth in what blueruby said is without a profitable system, no matter your psychology you will not be profitable. Also, if you haven't built the confidence to trade a profitable system without question then you may turn your system into a unprofitable one.

Truth in what everyone else is trying to articulate is that if you will act without hesitation it is because you have strong belief in the outcome before it takes place and this generally allows you to dismiss self sabotage and rely on your ability to perform your action.

Truth that i haven't seen stated in these words is that when blueruby says that you "know", he is stating that you have confidence beyond just belief. Confidence, in any form, is an emotion. We just don't hear it stated often because you don't always get the same easily identifiable physiological cues that fear, greed, love, lust, hate and all the others we know so well produce. Confidence produces a mostly un-memorable calm where as more popular emotions produce "excitement."

Also, EAs are an extention of your confidence in the ability to profit from occurance of certain events. You had to think to create the system and program it into an EA. You have to have the confidence to risk your money on this EA. An EA is no different from your mind in that it scans for certain occurances and makes decisions to take certain actions based on it's programming. It does think. The difference is that an EA does not have the free will to go against it's programming while we do. An EA is your mind uninterrupted by conflicting programming.
  • #189
  • Jan 3, 2013 5:27pm Jan 3, 2013 5:27pm
I concede.

IF a mechanical system could win, then psychology would not enter in. I wish this were true.

I don't believe a mechanical system can be a consistent winner for any length of time. Markets change, and whatever you're doing will get blown away, we've all seen it 100 times.

You have to be fast enough, and resilient enough to bounce back, look at what the market is doing, and adapt.

I believe that winning traders use discretion. They have a knack for the market. Yes, they "know", and they know a lot, but they are also sharp, confident, and probably have an attitude that they aren't worried about making money.

Losing traders are probably always afraid, worried, greedy, etc.

I concede. Without the right mindset, a trader is doomed. They have to be "on their game". I understand.
  • #190
  • Jan 3, 2013 5:30pm Jan 3, 2013 5:30pm
Quoting Eggster
Blue Ruby

Yes, please let us Know, if three years have enlightened you in any way.

I am sure there are a few who would be interested to know about your progress. (or lack of)
Ahhh, Forex Factory.

The place where traders can go to commiserate, speculate, regurgitate to each other.

Someone can anonymously take the role of Trade Titan, and will instantly have throngs of followers begging for tidbits and scraps of knowledge.

And, the true assholes always know they can always find a huge supply of losing traders to ridicule or belittle, to make themselves feel better.
  • #191
  • Jan 3, 2013 7:17pm Jan 3, 2013 7:17pm
Quoting blueruby
Ahhh, Forex Factory.

The place where traders can go to commiserate, speculate, regurgitate to each other.

Someone can anonymously take the role of Trade Titan, and will instantly have throngs of followers begging for tidbits and scraps of knowledge.

And, the true assholes always know they can always find a huge supply of losing traders to ridicule or belittle, to make themselves feel better.
FF is a breaking machine.
The best indicator is price.
  • #192
  • Jan 3, 2013 8:19pm Jan 3, 2013 8:19pm
What i think is most important is the right mindset but of course you would need to know how to trade. You can't be a gambler and succeed but the possibility is there but its about 1 in a trillion(no research on this

Don't be a gambler. Manage your risk appropriately and all should be well. Of course study and study the charts again and again. Choose your favourite tf. I suggest 15m and above.

May i know blueruby after all this years where are you in trading? (Just curious)

Btw, nice threads blueruby
  • #193
  • Jan 8, 2013 11:24am Jan 8, 2013 11:24am
Quoting Supertrader9
What i think is most important is the right mindset but of course you would need to know how to trade. You can't be a gambler and succeed but the possibility is there but its about 1 in a trillion(no research on this

Don't be a gambler. Manage your risk appropriately and all should be well. Of course study and study the charts again and again. Choose your favourite tf. I suggest 15m and above.

May i know blueruby after all this years where are you in trading? (Just curious)

Btw, nice threads blueruby
Thanks. Back in 2008 I was coming along well, so I put more money into the account, upped my trade sizes accordingly, and, what I was doing stopped working. After a couple losing months, and 2 years of no income, I needed to get a job.

So I got a job, and that's where I've been since April 2008. Engineering is a good living, but you will not become really wealthy. Income is always limited.

Also bought some rental properties. Nice and safe, right. Well, the wrong tenant can hit you $10 - 20K in a day just as the market can!

I realized maybe a year ago, that when the market changed, I needed to change with it, that's all.

I recently met a professional trader who's taking me under his wing, and the fire is lit again! So that's where I'm at. Trading for pennies, studying, learning.
  • #194
  • Jan 8, 2013 11:31am Jan 8, 2013 11:31am
Quoting blueruby
Thanks. Back in 2008 I was coming along well, so I put more money into the account, upped my trade sizes accordingly, and, what I was doing stopped working. After a couple losing months, and 2 years of no income, I needed to get a job.

So I got a job, and that's where I've been since April 2008. Engineering is a good living, but you will not become really wealthy. Income is always limited.

Also bought some rental properties. Nice and safe, right. Well, the wrong tenant can hit you $10 - 20K in a day just as the market can!

I realized...
Its funny i often read "the market changed" what changed ?
What made your system lose money ?

U sure it wasent a lucky streak ?

As the underlyieng market principles never changed
Markets move due to the same caused since ages!

Nvm. Good luck on your journey
  • #195
  • Jan 8, 2013 12:34pm Jan 8, 2013 12:34pm
Quoting blueruby
Thanks. Back in 2008 I was coming along well, so I put more money into the account, upped my trade sizes accordingly, and, what I was doing stopped working. After a couple losing months, and 2 years of no income, I needed to get a job.

So I got a job, and that's where I've been since April 2008. Engineering is a good living, but you will not become really wealthy. Income is always limited.

Also bought some rental properties. Nice and safe, right. Well, the wrong tenant can hit you $10 - 20K in a day just as the market can!

I realized...
nice updates.

what if your system just entered a losing streak that was bound to happen statistically?
have followed up on the system to see whether it'd have recovered?

changing systems in the depths of drawdown will often result in looking for a broker with the lowest minimum opening balance-ed seykota.
wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoy! wo-yoi! wo-yoy-yoy-yoy!
  • #196
  • Jan 10, 2013 6:42am Jan 10, 2013 6:42am
When you have knowledge physiology is no problem, but it also can be said that when you have good mental state you are ready for trading.
  • #197
  • Last Post: Jan 16, 2022 9:11am Jan 16, 2022 9:11am
Trading the forex or other markets doesn’t have anything with pain, psychology or improvement: the only law is: if you know, you win, if not you lose!

You who have already lost everything and are looking for a way to get your money back, stay away from all the EA’s, indicators, softwares as Metatrader, Jigsaw, Sierra, Bookmap and all other. Understanding the options on the futures is the only thing that will help you efficiently. You ‘ll never find anything to help you on forex website.

Finally, think about that: universal access to financial markets is a huge opportunity to get rip off millions of naive people! YOU JUST GIVE LIQUIDITY TO THE MARKET MAKERS VIA YOUR BOKER !
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