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FXCM active trader web price lag & slippage

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited Jul 21, 2010 8:16am Jul 16, 2010 11:37am | Edited Jul 21, 2010 8:16am
Hi,

I had this problem last time & contacted FXCM support about their active trader plateform complaining there is a slippage when prices moves faster.

Their immediate response was no problem in plateform but we can audit your trade. So we run an audit & guess what they found the slippage I detected to the pip. That was very strange! how they can know it! I detected it as I was used to have many price feeds on many montiros & got FXopen for Dukas price feed on MT4 for my main charts. I detected on fast moves that there was a big price lag. I sent them thru email the price lag & guess what I got a lesson on how FX is not centralised & that every think is fine in FXCM great plateform. Guys this is supposed to be their best spread plateform.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0wFEpji6kb...m+slippage.jpg

I was getting very angry & request account to be closed so they offered (called on phone so they can explain me!) that they can move me under trade station 2 that will resolve the issue. I first declined as that seemed strange, I don't get it the price feed was screwed. Got a second call 2 days later the guy on the phone finally saied as was getting crazy they had a BUG & that their engineer are trying to fix on the plateform. Strange such bug that screw customers & they don't even try to be proactive all they did is denying it until you force them to admit something is wired there.

I got moved to Tradestation 2 with RAW feed (they saied SAME PRICE Feed & see now Jason saying it's may be the same!) & see now FXCM price feed VS FXCM own price feed lower screen is active trader Web edition in Google chrome windows, while higher it's the new setup under tradestation with RAW price feed and see the great price lag/ slipppage. Also if you try to game that lag you be screwed as execution is made on the real time price feed!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0wFEpji6kb...+16-7-2010.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0wFEpji6kb...+16-7-2010.jpg


More screenshots on my blog:
http://www.forex13.com/2010/07/fxcm-...episode-3.html

My post comparing to FXCM Active trader to Dukas

Both account are LIVE accounts on Active trader.

Any one faced this before I already knew at least 2 traders got same issue. One got moved to TS2.

Update 1: I noticed this while running active trader on my main station & nothing else there. I had other price feed on other stations & monitors. But to get a good snapshot I had to run both on same PC. Notice FXCM statement they knowledge issue but I think they knew it since a long time. Also notice I didn't run any charts on last screen shots. Got a broadband DSL internet connection. Will make a follow UP.

Update 2: Notice the plateform we are talking about is the RAW price feed from FXCM this is the BEST they have not even the standard product.

Update3: Who renamed this thread from FXCM price lag & slippage to Broker price lag & slippage? FIXED! Thanks TWEE

Update 4: let's spice up the story with this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM0lhS1la4c I think it's better than screenshots.

Update5: FXCM kicked me out of Active trader after these post

Update 6: FXCM have at least 2 raw different price feed under active trader plateform!

Update 7: my final statement about issue & recommand using active trader BUT under trade station 2


13
Brokers are angels
  • #2
  • Edited Jul 17, 2010 6:44am Jul 16, 2010 1:16pm | Edited Jul 17, 2010 6:44am
FXCM admitted it after I posted on my blog & I pinged jason on twitter.

http://twitter.com/jasonforex you should ask him thru twitter there. As we got first official reply there.

& now they say this will be fixed over the week end. But I asked Jason if FXCM will credit back automaticly customers for all losses due to this bug. He said statement may made later.

Guys this is a bug made & known by FXCM so you end up seeing wrong prices & executed on another price feed. So if you don't notice you will loose many pips as you enter TOO late & exit too late. Currently you have to make a request for an audit to get back some pips. BUT if you don't. FXCM will be happy to bank them.

Update: FXCM will credit only if you request audit & it will see the slippage. While FXCM is able to automaticly see customers are request prices very different from real prices. FXCM made a bug that screw customers & they refuse to assume.

Hope this helps.

FX 13
Brokers are angels
  • #3
  • Jul 16, 2010 2:04pm Jul 16, 2010 2:04pm
Quoting fx13
....

Guys this is a bug made & known by FXCM so you end up seeing wrong prices & executed on another price feed. So if you don't notice you will loose many pips as you enter TOO late & exit too late. Currently you have to make a request for an audit to get back some pips. BUT if you don't. FXCM will be happy to bank them.

Hope this helps.

FX 13
Thanks, that was all I needed. BTW have you noticed any lengthy delays between market entry requests and trade placement by the system?

My own experience has caused me to put this broker on the back-burner and use them only for long time-frame trading. I shall continue in that way for the time being, and in any case it is good training.

I work in software and have wondered for a while whether each trader receives 'their own individual view' of the market. This is not specific to any broker but there is nothing to stop a broker from offering a 'customised view' of the market which can be different for every trader - this obviously does not happen much because it would be noticed by many people.

Watch your back!
Minesweeper target: 284
  • #4
  • Jul 16, 2010 2:39pm Jul 16, 2010 2:39pm
Seem no big delay on this plateform but you know the main issue. As this seem to be the best they have for ACTIVE traders. & they claim they provide RAW feed & charge like ECN comission on each execution.

But here in our case as you can see screenshots. The main plateform is screwing customers with delayed quotes. This is not new & old. Support kept denying that until I posted the screenshot as it was too big. I compared them to dukas, they said almost that I'm dumb that I don't know that FX market is not centralised. Then now you see. FXCM know the problem & will not credit back the pips automaticly. You have to request an audit for each trade.

Guys why they would hurry fixing this as this is making customer loosing more!

FX 13
Brokers are angels
  • #5
  • Jul 16, 2010 3:01pm Jul 16, 2010 3:01pm
Quoting fx13
Hi,

I had this problem last time & contacted FXCM support about their active trader plateform complaining there is a slippage when prices moves faster.

Their immediate response was no problem in plateform but we can audit your trade. So we run an audit & guess what they found the slippage I detected to the pip. That was very strange! how they can know it! I detected it as I was used to have many price feeds on many montiros & got FXopen for Dukas price feed on MT4 for my main charts. I detected on fast moves that there was a big price lag....

Some traders using FXCM’s Active Trader platform have received what appears as lagging prices. When using the FXCM Active Trader platform, prices are pushed to the client whereas Trading Station II pulls data from FXCM. Adjusting to the speed of one’s internet connection, traders using FXCM’s Active Trader platform must have connections strong enough to receive the large amount of data sent, including market depth (level II quoting). It is this point where an issue has been found for some traders.

Additionally, in researching issues with specific traders on the platform, we have found that charting data and/or running multiple programs running on client’s computer may be responsible for increasing the CPU (performance) of one’s computer to levels that reach maximum levels. Maxing out the CPU has resulted in the price stream updates to become delayed. What is important to note is that trade confirmation streams continue to work at 100% capacity in these situations. Hence, if a trader buys EURUSD, the fill continues to take place at the current market price.

To use an example, suppose the market price is actually at 45 but the active trader platform on the clients computer displays a price of 40. The order will be filled at the market price. In these situations one time adjustments have been given to traders with explanations of what has taken place. FXCM’s TSII also offers the same pricing model (commission based) and is the best option for traders who have experienced such an event.

Finally, the FXCM Active Trader price feed and the TSII price feed are indeed two separate feeds. Traders with non performance issues may still see a slight discrepancy in price due to this reason. Also note, that while internet connection plays a large role in this, the inefficiency (we believe) of the charting data for those using charts on the Active Trader platform may increase the chance of such pricing delays. For this reason we are working to change the algorithm of the charting this weekend. If we feel this will not effectively produce better results we will remove the charting completely until we find a more efficient way to stream tick data.

We will also be added a list of computer and internet connection specifications required to run the active trader platform. If you have any questions or have been affected by this issue please contact us by emailing [email protected]. Alternatively you may dial our direct line by calling 808-234-8789 (702970).

Brandon Mulvihill
VP FX Sales
Active Trader Group
  • #6
  • Edited Jul 17, 2010 6:46am Jul 16, 2010 3:25pm | Edited Jul 17, 2010 6:46am
Hi Jason,

Sorry to say this marketing reply is not true neither enought for me.

1. I don't run charts in Active trader Web. I use MT4 on my station & many other stations here. & I challenge you will post screen shots where you will see I dropped charts.

2. Market level depth IS NOT a problem I used to run dukas market depth on many PC on same connectivity. Never got a network issue.

3. Ah connectivity have a DSL with 2MB/S Do you require for trading 100MB/S only for market depth. Again check your reply.

4. Amazing you say price feed on TS2 is not the same. Are you ignoring here that this is the RAW price feed I posted in screen shots this is the same as active trader. I got moved to TS2 with SAME PRICE FEED conditions. So now you are telling me I got something different.

5. Jason I asked if you will automaticly inform you customer about the issue & that you will automaticly adjust their account to fix the slippage. Still here no reply. you are escaping this question. You request that customer take notice request an audit then. You will tell him if you knowledge this or NOT. YOU know the customers who are affected & you mainly say you will bank the pips unless customers claim!

This is not a proactive way to fix the mess you caused.

Are you planning to inform all your customers & review their trades automaticly or keep the slippage PIPS? Or just making some statement here to calm the issue down?

Update: see jason quoted 4 points & missed by magic the key 5 about automatic audit & FIX.

Regards
FX 13
Brokers are angels
  • #7
  • Jul 16, 2010 3:39pm Jul 16, 2010 3:39pm
Quoting fx13
Hi Jason,

Sorry to say this marketing reply is not true neither enought for me.

1. I don't run charts in Active trader Web. I use MT4 on my station & many other stations here. & I challenge you will post screen shots where you will see I dropped charts.

2. Market level depth IS NOT a problem I used to run dukas market depth on many PC on same connectivity. Never got a network issue.

3. Ah connectivity have a DSL with 2MB/S Do you require for trading 100MB/S only for market depth. Again check your reply.

4. Amazing you say price feed...
1. As mentioned in the statement, maxing out the CPU performance can cause the rates to lag because there's basically a jamming of rates whenever that occurs. Running the charts has had an abnormal affect on CPU usage, but in general running multiple programs at the same time causing CPU usage to max out can cause it as well. That is why we will be releasing minimum computer and connectivity requirements for using the platform.

2. Market level depth increases the amount of data that must be transmitted to the active trader platform. Comparing to other brokers is like apples and oranges because they are two completely different programs in how they operate.

3. Again, we have discovered two potential causes to this problem based on connectivity and CPU performance, and in replicating the problems on our side.

4. I will get more details for you on this, but in general the liquidity providers have to agree to provide liquidity to each specific platform.

5. Please re-read the statement as it outlines the cause of the problem. It is not a systematic problem affecting all traders but based upon two things concerning the active trader platform, internet connectivity and CPU performance; therefore it is dependent on the traders setup. In instances where this does occur, we will make an adjustment and recommend moving over to the FX Trading Station II. Moving forward we will also be providing minimum CPU and connectivity requirements.

And slippage on your trades does not equate into FXCM's gain. Whether your order is filled at the price you click on or slipped to the next best price where liquidity is available, you are paying the same commission (on active trader) or pip mark-up on the regular standard 10k accounts.

Jason
  • #8
  • Jul 16, 2010 3:46pm Jul 16, 2010 3:46pm
Hi FXCM,

See this is the bigger screen shot can you tell me where is the charts in Active trader Web plateform ???

You talk about charts but I don't rely on your charts.

FX 13
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: fxcm slippage-2 16-7-2010.jpg Size: 268 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: fxcm slippage-3 16-7-2010.jpg Size: 265 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: fxcm slippage-4 16-7-2010.jpg Size: 284 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: fxcm slippage 2.jpg Size: 127 KB
Brokers are angels
  • #9
  • Jul 16, 2010 3:53pm Jul 16, 2010 3:53pm
Quoting Jason Rogers

And slippage on your trades does not equate into FXCM's gain. Whether your order is filled at the price you click on or slipped to the next best price where liquidity is available, you are paying the same commission (on active trader) or pip mark-up on the regular standard 10k accounts.

Jason

Yep but delay cause trader to enter too late & exit too late for an issue caused by an unreliable plateform. So you think this fair? This is FXCM fault. FXCM have to honor & fix this automaticly. You have logs & you see at what price customer clicked. You see the slippage but you say "not our fault" it's CPU & market depth jamming.

Is this your own plateform you developped ? That is failing? That is unreliable?? That you refuse to back that & fix the slippage issue on customers account?

FX 13
Brokers are angels
  • #10
  • Edited 4:02pm Jul 16, 2010 3:53pm | Edited 4:02pm
Quoting fx13
Hi FXCM,

See this is the bigger screen shot can you tell me where is the charts in Active trader Web plateform ???

You talk about charts but I don't rely on your charts.

FX 13
Hi FX13,

I understand you had no charts open.

As mentioned in my previous two posts, the problem can be caused by 1) CPU performance being maxed out and 2) internet connectivity as mentioned in our statement.

In instances where the CPU performance has maxed out, the charts have played a role because of the amount of data being stored. Re-configuring how the charts operate is one thing we are looking into. Running multiple programs along with the Active Trader Platform can also max out CPU performance which is why we will be releasing a minimum performance requirement for the platform. Second, internet connectivity has played a role in this problem as well which is also why we will be adding minimum platform requirements to the website. If you do not meet those requirements or you have experienced this problem on the active trader platform, then we do not recommend using it. Instead you should be using the FX Trading Station II.

-Jason
  • #11
  • Edited 4:11pm Jul 16, 2010 4:07pm | Edited 4:11pm
Quoting fx13
Hi FXCM,

See this is the bigger screen shot can you tell me where is the charts in Active trader Web plateform ???

You talk about charts but I don't rely on your charts.

FX 13
I think the point he is making is that running more than one trading platform on any machine can cause the CPU to overload. Plus if you have trading platform applications badly written in Java they could easily consume most of the CPU resource.

In order to support your argument you will need to merge the screen shots from different machines; and while you are doing that you will also have to think about how to counter the argument that you cannot guarantee the synchronization of your screen shots, perhaps.

BTW it seems that Jason may be:-
Quote
Brandon Mulvihill
VP FX Sales
Active Trader Group

Edit: sorry Jason but my post was in-edit whilst your reply came in.
Minesweeper target: 284
  • #12
  • Edited Jul 17, 2010 6:49am Jul 16, 2010 4:51pm | Edited Jul 17, 2010 6:49am
For information I first noticed this when I had only Active trader web on my main PC while other charts run on secondary station.

If I do screen shots on different station of course I will be a scammer who is lying.

Also FXCM is not warning about this BUG until I made it public. I knew that their support was aware of this & this not only for a WEEK guys this story is more than a week. Until that FXCM didn't fixed it.

I don't run any java stuff but Active trader run on FLEX/ Flash which run smoothly another broker plateform but seem they succeded in what you failed to get a reliable plateform.

Currently customer can get delayed quotes & they will never notice IF they don't pay attention with another price feed. ALSO notice I reported this to FXCM support they made me a big lesson how their PRICE FEED WAS THE ONE & I was seeing elephants flying. & trust me I made many request & each time guess what they do the procedure run an audit. I remember in one trade a support tech found 8.6 pips slippage he didn't warned me then about the issue neither asked me to move on TS 2.

Jason I pinged you 5 days ago with a dukascopy MT4 price feed compared to Active trader web & I also sent the same to your support. Support again said FX is not a centralised business.

So here we are this is not fair & FXCM is not proactive & only make PR caring for their image.

Delayed quotes change too many things for customers. Imagine on news ( and it happens on news mainly ) a 10 s lag? You will be almost immediatly too late, you will miss you entry level. Same for exit.

So how FXCM plan to fix this? Blame again customer & CPU? Can't we talk here about.

I think that NFA must make an audit for FXCM on this issue and their buggy software.

PS: I know another customer who had such issue and then was move two month's ago to TS 2. This is issue is a long term issue. you may not be aware but your technical staf knew it.

13
Brokers are angels
  • #13
  • Jul 16, 2010 6:13pm Jul 16, 2010 6:13pm
FX13,

I took a closer look at AT after having seen your complaint and noticed the same problem. I am going to look into it some more when the markets open on Sunday and compare closer to my other brokers.

I run my trading on 2 dedicated 100mb lines with a 50mb backup on 3 Z600 workstations with dual Xeon's at 2.27Ghz each and 16GB of RAM. I use one Z600 as a dedicated order terminal with just AT running when I use FXCM as broker. There is no way that my CPU is overloaded just running AT on it on its own 100Mb line
  • #14
  • Jul 16, 2010 6:46pm Jul 16, 2010 6:46pm
Hi,

Great will love to hear your feedback & think that the problem is deep in their platform. See they invoked charts & connectivity. Don't think that price streaming require such crazy megabits neither charts may be cpu...

Notice demo price feed is the same as live here & too is crawling.

Best regards
13
Brokers are angels
  • #15
  • Jul 16, 2010 6:50pm Jul 16, 2010 6:50pm
I use the same setup as you, AT and others for trading and MT4 for charting. I always use a seperate machine on a seperate line for my charting feed and one machine on a 100Mb line for AT, I use the 3rd machine on the backup line for internet and newsfeed, my Bloomy is also on that line. So there is no way that they can blame this on my machine or my feed, I did not spend the kind of money I did on my setup for nothing. I wanted to assure that I had as little latency in my setup as possible.
  • #16
  • Jul 16, 2010 10:23pm Jul 16, 2010 10:23pm
Nothing surprises me with FXCM.

Looking at the screenshots in the first post, it explains why at news time or just before, you click on a price thinking that is the price you click on but you end up being filled at the hidden price with huge slippage.

The point being at the time you click you cannot see that the price has already moved some 20 pips or more away in the background from what you click on your screen. This looks to me like a matter for NFA investigation.
  • #17
  • Edited 6:05am Jul 17, 2010 2:33am | Edited 6:05am
Just, another fine find showing that YES FXCM are nothing but a slap shop built on fast marketing.

Here we have posted proof they slip their clients, good old Jason comes in with typical dribble.. sorry Jason this time the facts show what's happening and there's no amount of slick sales spin you can dish up to defend the pricing and execution.

By the way I loved the reason you made about this happening due to clients CPU.... LOL, please Jason computers have evolved a little since 1990! LOL what a good one!

NDD STP is now slipping clients.... ....... ....(better check your CPU lol )
  • #18
  • Jul 17, 2010 3:09pm Jul 17, 2010 3:09pm
This is why I always advise retail traders to obtain an independent pricing feed/charting package from a company not associated with their broker. I know it cost money but you'd be surprised at what you'll find from time to time in feed delay and inaccurate pricing from your broker.

Its an investment traders can not afford not to have. Sign up for eSignal or my favorite ProRealTime and substitute your brokers charing package with eSignal/ProRealTime. It's ok to use your brokers platform as Order Management and rely on outside charting. If you can't afford outside charting package, visit Forex Factory's Market tab and make sure you press the "Live" button for live feed. I've been testing FF Market feed is accurate.

My solution tackles FXCM (or any broker) pricing feed delay and not slippage. Slippage is on the broker and you can't do anything about it other than use pending entry orders (Stop/Limit orders) or find a better broker.
  • #19
  • Jul 17, 2010 6:46pm Jul 17, 2010 6:46pm
Hi FX13....I had same problem with FXCM as well as getting stoppeed out on about every trade bya a few pips..finally got tired of their excuses and closed the account and went with MB Trading (ECN) and eliminated the problems as well as only paying a commission versus spreads..

sfg7th
  • #20
  • Jul 17, 2010 11:07pm Jul 17, 2010 11:07pm
Quoting fx13
Guys this is a bug made & known by FXCM so you end up seeing wrong prices & executed on another price feed. So if you don't notice you will loose many pips as you enter TOO late & exit too late. Currently you have to make a request for an audit to get back some pips. BUT if you don't. FXCM will be happy to bank them.
Update: FXCM will credit only if you request audit & it will see the slippage. While FXCM is able to automaticly see customers are request prices very different from real prices. FXCM made a bug that screw customers & they refuse...
The virtual dealer plugin is taking many forms and almost certainly is used on many platforms not just MT4. How much more proof do we need?
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