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Dukascopy

  • #121
  • Jul 7, 2010 8:48pm Jul 7, 2010 8:48pm
Any dukas traders of the month post here???..
lowest draw down possible please.
  • #122
  • Jul 8, 2010 5:23am Jul 8, 2010 5:23am
Is it possible to use Ninja trader on dukascopy?
Through their FIX API?
They say so on their forum, but I was wondering if anyone was using that here.
Also, what about the 100k minimum, does tht apply to Ninja? Or, only custom API's.
  • #123
  • Jul 12, 2010 1:57am Jul 12, 2010 1:57am
Dukas charges commisions on both sides of the trades? so if your commision is 32 USD per million traded and we buy 100000 USD/CAD we will get charged $6.4 ($3.2 for opening trade, $3.2 for closing trade)? Assuming USD/CAD is trading at 1.00, 1 pip markup to this spread, with no commisions will cost $10. So dukas is cheaper in this case? even cheaper with 45% rebate
  • #124
  • Jul 12, 2010 5:15am Jul 12, 2010 5:15am
i found dukascopy rejected my order,when britain gdp was realeased,jforex infomation:


08:33:18 Order 38295999 was REJECTED: Rejected by counterparty



the price is 149500 with amount of 500k


though my account was a demo one, i think "Rejected by counterparty" should never be popped up by an ECN broker.

and fxopen said they are now providing ecn-mt4 platform with dukascopy .is there probability that any micro order (small than 100k)is trading with fxopen ,while larger orders go through ecn ?

you can find fxopen-dukascopy cooperation here http://forexmagnates.com/fxopen-and-...0%99s-clients/
  • #125
  • Jul 12, 2010 7:20am Jul 12, 2010 7:20am
Quoting Scotty2Cues
Dukas charges commisions on both sides of the trades? so if your commision is 32 USD per million traded and we buy 100000 USD/CAD we will get charged $6.4 ($3.2 for opening trade, $3.2 for closing trade)? Assuming USD/CAD is trading at 1.00, 1 pip markup to this spread, with no commisions will cost $10. So dukas is cheaper in this case? even cheaper with 45% rebate
Yes, we get charged "double"-first time when we open a trade and second when we close. And with 45% rebate it become cheaper ! So basically it is a 1/2 of a pip(0.00005) addon to spread.
  • #126
  • Jul 12, 2010 1:29pm Jul 12, 2010 1:29pm
Quoting Gcapman
Rumor is that some of the UK fx firms will be lowering their leverage as well in the near future

Since Dukascopy is Swiss and has nothing to do with US NFA nor UK FSA - there should be no reason for Dukascopy to lower their leverage, correct ?
Correct, I see no reason Dukascopy Bank will lower their default leverage.

That's one of the reasons I use Dukas not to mention no FIFO and you can hedge if you want.

Trade to trade well, no excuses!
JD
It's Easy To Get In;.. It's Hard To Get Out
  • #127
  • Jul 12, 2010 1:49pm Jul 12, 2010 1:49pm
Wondering if they will ever go decimal..
  • #128
  • Jul 12, 2010 4:30pm Jul 12, 2010 4:30pm
Quoting shrike
Wondering if they will ever go decimal..
Some of their liquidity providers are not five decimal thus they are not going to provide a strictly five position platform.
It's Easy To Get In;.. It's Hard To Get Out
  • #129
  • Jul 12, 2010 4:47pm Jul 12, 2010 4:47pm
Quoting John D
Some of their liquidity providers are not five decimal thus they are not going to provide a strictly five position platform.
So what? You can have LPs quoting in half pips and others quoting in 1/10 pips together on one platform without problems. Hotspot (one of their destinations according to their website) quotes in 1/10s - what happens to the rounding residual? Either you are STP or you aint.
  • #130
  • Jul 12, 2010 8:44pm Jul 12, 2010 8:44pm
Quoting shrike
So what? You can have LPs quoting in half pips and others quoting in 1/10 pips together on one platform without problems. Hotspot (one of their destinations according to their website) quotes in 1/10s - what happens to the rounding residual? Either you are STP or you aint.
I should have clarified, their market depth is showing price using 0.5 pip step. It is because not all liquidity providers are able to provide Dukas a decimal price.

You CAN place orders for what ever price your little heart desires.

Trade and trade well, no excuses.
JD
It's Easy To Get In;.. It's Hard To Get Out
  • #131
  • Jul 13, 2010 12:50am Jul 13, 2010 12:50am
So they show 0.5 pip increments but really fill with 0.1 pecision because a subset of their LPs only quotes in 0.5? Is there any particular logic or reason for that? I'm afraid more clarification is needed.
  • #132
  • Jul 13, 2010 3:03am Jul 13, 2010 3:03am
according to what I know, and please correct me If I am wrong, they use, as Currenex does, 2 different types of protocols for showing liquidity (DOM) and for showing the indicative executable streaming prices for bid and offer.

Big difference being, between a Tier I Currenex hub and a limited relationship, which Dukascopy is/has, is, that your fill is far better on a multi relationship-multi bank ECN hub.

Anyone opening an account with them has just been made a victim of their AAA (AAA for mugs, bought by their BS) marketing strategy - giving away watches, and making big monthly events, please, can you imagine NewEdge or JP Morgan doing this?? Stay away. When you need them most they are simply not there for you. Don't say that you haven't been warned.

My best.
  • #133
  • Jul 13, 2010 4:12pm Jul 13, 2010 4:12pm
Quoting Trader613
according to what I know, and please correct me If I am wrong, they use, as Currenex does, 2 different types of protocols for showing liquidity (DOM) and for showing the indicative executable streaming prices for bid and offer.

Big difference being, between a Tier I Currenex hub and a limited relationship, which Dukascopy is/has, is, that your fill is far better on a multi relationship-multi bank ECN hub.

Anyone opening an account with them has just been made a victim of their AAA (AAA for mugs, bought by their BS) marketing strategy...
OK. I’ll bite!

I see nothing wrong with giving a trader a little notoriety from being a successful trader. Not sure why you’re comparing NewEdge and JP Mogan to Dukascopy. My dear sir that's like comparing apples to oranges not in the least bit similar.

I could also flip the coin and say NewEdge and JP Morgan could care less about their retail Forex clients (if a self directed retail spot Forex trader could even open an account with them) and do you think either one of those don’t give BIG perks and kickbacks to the companies who push their produces which meet their sales quota? Hmm…

…Then I have a bridge to sell you!

Back to the subject at hand. Dukascopy used them for years, no complaints.


Trade to trade well, no excuses.
JD
It's Easy To Get In;.. It's Hard To Get Out
  • #134
  • Jul 14, 2010 1:44am Jul 14, 2010 1:44am
Quoting shrike
So they show 0.5 pip increments but really fill with 0.1 pecision because a subset of their LPs only quotes in 0.5? Is there any particular logic or reason for that? I'm afraid more clarification is needed.
I brought up this exact same concern a couple years ago when I tried them out. You're right in that it is completely illogical - if Dukascopy was a direct multi-bank/ECN aggregator (similar to say the now-defunct CAX, or what Integral purportedly is doing), their book pricing should reflect their LP pricing 100%, thus 0.1 increments.

My theory (and I base this upon a multitude of factors, mostly talks with various Duka reps) is that Duka is certainly not a CAX/Integral-esque (pure pass-thru) aggregator, even though their marketing makes the claim that they are. Instead, what they're showing in their book/DOM is perhaps an "executable estimate" of their pooled liquidity. They can perhaps guarantee execution of a portion of the liquidity displayed in their book/DOM, at the trade-off of no pure pass-thru. This is to account for the various types of latencies involved in executing orders at a variety of endpoint destinations. An algorithm likely calculates this estimate and skews the book accordingly (i.e. limited liquidity at the top bid/offer range, massive liquidity down below). Compare their DOM to the DOM of Hotspot FXi, FXall/LavaFX (members of Duka's "liquidity business model") and I bet you'll see anything but a mirror image..

It would be great if Duka had a knowledgeable rep on these forums who could respond to these discussions.
  • #135
  • Jul 14, 2010 2:58am Jul 14, 2010 2:58am
Quoting Trader KGB
I brought up this exact same concern a couple years ago when I tried them out....
Yes, it would be great, and I imagine their retail biz would prosper from that move, but thanks for this explanation, cleared up some I had of my own.

KGB, do u think these are issues that people using the 4H and dailies, dont need to worry about for obvious reasons (their ev is enough to cover that 1/2 pip), or do you think that the problems run deeper than a half pip? Meaning will it hurt me to much too trade with Dukas as opposed to Hotspot, if I am not scalping?
  • #136
  • Jul 14, 2010 4:16am Jul 14, 2010 4:16am
Quoting John D
Dukascopy used them for years, no complaints.
...hey John, that's cool - and of course you are 100% right, Dukas can in no way be compared to a Tier I PB, not with the marketing nor with the product.

Perhaps lets take it as is, and make up your own mind:

Dukascopy was a MM back in the early days - later on changed their business model to become a liquidity aggregator - thus implemented with a very flawed liquidity aggregation Algo - pushed their new product with trying to be with the big boys league ('we only take accounts above $50k') - 2008 credit crunch wiped out their (top of the book) little liquidity they had to offer to start with - remarketing - now and in the mean time also needing to comply to Swiss banking legislations, not that they wanted to, they needed to - out of sheer desperation now for business pairing up with FXOpen - big bang - banking license coming in, now lets push our product once more, hard: monthly events, advertising and TV shows -

but has the liquidity aggregation Algo changed throughout these years...? (no, it hasn't, correct me if I'm wrong please.)

Quoting John D
...(if a self directed retail spot Forex trader could even open an account with them)...
No, correct, you can't. Unless you are a high net worth individual with the right connections. However, what you can do in order to tap into Tier I PB liquidity is to go through Tier II PB's offering Tier I liquidity at an additional cost/commission.

Quoting Trader KGB
My theory (and I base this upon a multitude of factors, mostly talks...
Trader KGB:

I had in-depth discussions with the Director at vCap, he told me at the time - that aggregating liquidity is not very easy - Major player FX banks do not split their liquidity (thus orders can rapid fire them) but offer such multiple across various venues and direct FIX protocols, and as you mentioned, there is also the big issue of latency due to the fact that FX is traded OTC and not via one exchange -

Mind you, Currenex is quite popular with the banks (well, sort of, they dislike CNX due to their high charges, remember that banks also have to dish out further costs for clearing with CLS, but do like them as they can interfere with trading algos and have also the last look option, if need be) they have all orders routing through their main data center/server. IntegralFX apparently, say that their aggregation algo/FIX seems to work wonders, maybe.

Bottom line and my conclusion is:

If you are a HFT/scalper you might run into major problems when trading through Dukascopy, such becoming worse the more and longer you trade with them successfully (after a while they will/might get red flagged) - however, if you position or swing trade - Dukascopy might offer now (as they are now fully regulated) a real alternative to a Tier I CNX hub.

But in any case, once your trading volume/lot size becomes big (I mean, real big) your better off with an IDB platform like EBS and Reuters Dealing - thus spreads are much wider - you just can't have it both ways, can you?

My best.
  • #137
  • Jul 14, 2010 5:00am Jul 14, 2010 5:00am
Another thing about their quotes (apart from the half pips) is, since they lowered ther minimum lot size to 1000 BCU, that theoretically, they would always have to quote one of the destinations that accept such small orders in the inside market. For example, if Lava is the best bid a micro-trader wouldnt be able to trade on that price since you cant trade 1000 units on lava.

Now 1000 unit trades arent terribly important, but its just another thing that contradicts what they say on the website. I think they should come forward and explain how all this stuff works. Too many questions for my taste.
  • #138
  • Jul 14, 2010 5:17am Jul 14, 2010 5:17am
Quoting shrike
Another thing about their quotes (apart from the half pips) is, since they lowered ther minimum lot size to 1000 BCU, that theoretically, they would always have to quote one of the destinations that accept such small orders in the inside market.
Micro lots would be aggregated and processed via STP since ECN cannot process such small amounts. If so, you wouldn't see these individual orders on the order book directly, but they may appear in an aggregated order of a larger amount on the ECN (1.00 lots and above).
  • #139
  • Edited 8:48am Jul 14, 2010 6:04am | Edited 8:48am
guys im gettin confused. I thought I was getting to know a liitle bit about the different type of brokers. Then I realise I know nothing . I though Dukas was the one to go for now they have license. My other option is Barclays (Barx fx) here in England. They are not ecn but stp tight spreads. All was ok then I found out they have a broker downtime at 1700 EST for 25mins. No prices are quoted. They say this is for reboot. It put me off them because I get gaps on the daily charts, I thought 25min is a long time? So Ive sent the paperwork off to Dukascopy but now not so sure.

Can someone please give me a list of reputable ECNs or stps. Whats the minimum needed to open with JP morgan?
Thanks
  • #140
  • Jul 14, 2010 6:30am Jul 14, 2010 6:30am
Quoting oakmonster
Micro lots would be aggregated and processed via STP since ECN cannot process such small amounts. If so, you wouldn't see these individual orders on the order book directly, but they may appear in an aggregated order of a larger amount on the ECN (1.00 lots and above).
Thats not what their website says and is an assumption on your part only.

Besides, its not only about 1000 unit orders. For example, Hotspots minimum trade is 250K (acctually they reccomend 500K since that is the minimum match size on their network and not all participants accept 250K). So if Hotspot is on top of the book and i hit them for 100K, will i be subject to aggregation? Or will i get slippage because the order gets routed further down the book until there is a destination that accepts this order?

Operating a book for small orders (if that is indeed the case) opens a can of worms. First of all, what is defined as small is not clear, since some on the dukas network dont even accept 100K orders. Second, if dukas does have a book at all, another question is if they use some orders, that would be eglible for direct routing, for internalizing client-positions in their small book - that would just be good business. Having a book, if only for small orders, is just one tiny step away from outright marketmaking. Together with the option to round quotes +- half a pip, the step gets even more tiny.

I'm not saying such a hybrid model would be bad. But they need to be upfront and transparent about what is actually going on, which is clearly not the case at the moment.
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