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Would you stop trading if you found better paying job??

  • #21
  • Jul 9, 2010 3:30pm Jul 9, 2010 3:30pm
Quoting TJPLD
You can always reduce the cost of trading by trading higher timeframes making it easier to overcome this "disadvatage".
Agreed. This is the biggest failure of retail trader imo.
Quote
I also disagree with the "Someone has to lose in order for you to win" Theoy.
Let's say you went short 100K on EUR/USD and price drops 30 pips and you decide to exit the trade. So you need someone to buy back your position. I'll buy your position and wait for price to go up 40 pips and exit. Now someone else bought my position. We both just made a profit. In the end someone will eventually lose but I don't see why there has to be a huge surplus of losers for the chosen few to make a killing. The purpose of the market is to find an equilibrium...
Where's my counter-party? Where's your counter-party? For me to sell Euros and buy USD, someone has to buy Euros and sell USD. So while I made 30 pips, they lost 30 pips. Not including broker costs.

If there are a chosen few making a killing, and there is not a large surplus of losers, then that means there a chosen few losing a killing.

I think (just my speculation) that the vast majority of retail traders slowly dribble away their FX money. So if 50,000 traders are losing a $1000 /year on average, then that's $50MM being absorbed by 1. Brokers. 2. Banks. 3. a handful of very successful traders. 4. 50,000 traders who make a bit over break even.

Quote
So that would make you part of the under capitalized group? 10% -20% on 50, 000 is 5000 - 10 000 a month mate! I could sure pay my bill with that......
I've lost enough trading forex to know better than to put up that much money. Once I earn up to $50,000 I'll bank the money, but it's not steady enough to depend on. I've had losing months, so the only way to trade forex as your only income is to have a separate cash account with enough money to keep you floating during the lean times.
  • #22
  • Edited 10:11pm Jul 9, 2010 6:14pm | Edited 10:11pm
Quoting Brb-Fraudin
I am going for an interview for a new job. They would pay me double my current job. Its an engineering job so its also of competitive nature and I need more studying. So I don't know if I would be able to resume learning FX.

So what do you people in jobs that require studying doing?? I only interested in FX because I like the challenge. I never quit something before I master it.
Tough one

let me see if I can help with that

forex success is extremely difficult to achieve, almost everyone fails. Sooner or later, the new trader will realise how great the odds against success actually are. Then its decision time. Continue, with the possibility of never seeing a dime of profit or, walk away and focus your attention on something with better odds of success.
In your case, I agree with you that its one or the other. You can't work the new job, do the study required, and have enough time left over to beat the markets. Forex success will take everything you've got, and some

If you choose forex, and in five years time you are still losing, then you have not only lost trading funds, but the extra income you could have recieved if you had taken the job. That could be 50k a year, so 250k. Add whatever you have lost in the markets plus five years of your life you aint never getting back! Thats some real commitment.

Are you prepared to make that level of commitment to this thing or not?

I am at the end of five years experience and have yet to see any profit. Ive taken a 3hr day cleaning job at half the hourly rate I get paid to do the job I am qualified for. I am out of pocket about 30k per year. That makes me a fulltime trader with a part time job. In one way, I have achieved the goal I set out to achieve. I am looking good to have a profitable year but that wont cover my losses to date. I will still be a net loser for sometime to come. There is still no garrantee I will ever get those losses back, let alone live of my trading, let alone become wealthy. I dont know what my future will be. At 46, I am literally risking it all. I accept the uncertainty. I believe I will make it, and I have turned the corner but, I accept that I may not make it. I may end up with nothing and to old to recover financially. I accept that risk

Do you accept the very real risk of giving up 250k earnings and five years of your life for nothing?

Take the job, save that extra 50kper annum you make. In five years time, look me up, if im still around, I may have a really good investment opportunity for those funds with a ten year veteran trader
BTC Return This Year: na
  • #23
  • Jul 10, 2010 4:40am Jul 10, 2010 4:40am
you can always switch to a higher timeframe, 5 minutes a day "trading" (handshake) will get you as far if not farther than 5 hours a day "trading" (working)

do what you like best, where you can grow the most, improvement is underrated, money is overrated
Invincibility lies in the defence, the possibility of victory in the attack
  • #24
  • Edited 8:11am Jul 10, 2010 7:50am | Edited 8:11am
Quoting M.A.C.Doug

Tough one

let me see if I can help with that

forex success is extremely difficult to achieve, almost everyone fails. Sooner or later, the new trader will realise how great the odds against success actually are. Then its decision time. Continue, with the possibility of never seeing a dime of profit or, walk away and focus your attention on something with better odds of success.
In your case, I agree with you that its one or the other. You can't work the new job, do the study required, and have enough time left over to beat the markets. Forex...
You're either:

a) crazy
b) an inspiration

I'll have to dwell on the answer.

PS. You're cool regardless.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #25
  • Jul 10, 2010 8:21am Jul 10, 2010 8:21am
If I was brb fraudin, and i'd have been struggling in fx for 5+ years, and a good job comes along, never mind if it pays double or not.... sorta no brainer
  • #26
  • Jul 10, 2010 9:44am Jul 10, 2010 9:44am
Quoting TJPLD
............ In the end someone will eventually lose but I don't see why there has to be a huge surplus of losers for the chosen few to make a killing...............
Because of the George Soros' and Jimmy Rogers' of the trading world who get way above average returns continuously requires way more total numbers of losers cumulatively (and not just big losses) to contribute to their winnings.
  • #27
  • Jul 10, 2010 9:47am Jul 10, 2010 9:47am
Quoting Brb-Fraudin
........... I never quit something before I master it.
So if you had mastered trading by now you would be willing to quit.
  • #28
  • Jul 10, 2010 9:53am Jul 10, 2010 9:53am
I must agree for the majority of us around here, trading is a passion. For some, is what pay the bills, and for some others, another tool in the investment portfolio.

I wake up, check the charts. Check the open trades, and potentially good entries (had checked last night if some kind of the "bombastic" news are for thr day)... most of the times, I do nothing, or just adjust my position. Go working. Back to lunch, just check the charts. Almost never change something, it's just psychological. Back to work. Back at night, check again. Adjust some positions, check for tomorrow "bombastic" news, see if there are some good oportunities to come, If "YES", set pending orders... Go to bed, next day, rinse and repeat.

I'm investing, not trading for a living. Trade off D1, and manage from 4H.

Just my 2 pips...

Cheers!
Many share my views with me. But I don't share them with them...
  • #29
  • Jul 11, 2010 5:54am Jul 11, 2010 5:54am
Thank you gentlemen for all these helpful replies.

I am always fascinated by people who are masters at more than one thing. There is this man who was a chess grand master and won a Nobel in Chemistry. There is the ultimate Polymath , leonardo Da Vinci.

I mean if 1 man can do it , then two can , right? I'll continue studying FX and Engineering , both , what will prevent me from mastering the two fields?
  • #30
  • Jul 19, 2010 1:30am Jul 19, 2010 1:30am
Quoting Brb-Fraudin
I'll continue studying FX and Engineering , both , what will prevent me from mastering the two fields?
Nothing and nobody has as much control over your life as you do. So, Make it all happen.
Living the adventure in my head.
  • #31
  • Jul 21, 2010 6:18am Jul 21, 2010 6:18am
Surely you can master both Engineering & Forex Trading.

In both disciplines, they share some commonalities.

Logical & Calm analysis plays important role in both fields.

You maybe able to do well in both.
  • #32
  • Jul 23, 2010 2:39am Jul 23, 2010 2:39am
Sure, If I have a good job, there's no need to do the trade with many of risk and fortunes like trading
  • #33
  • Jul 23, 2010 4:04am Jul 23, 2010 4:04am
BRB, I am the you in the future (maybe)

I am currently an engineer and I am trading. Unfortunately for me reality of working hits hard. You can have passion for engineering but sometimes an employer can kill that passion. Just a heads up about the working world.

If you are still studying, then there is not much of a debate. Keep doing both. But make sure you master one. The other you can catch up on.

IMO, I would prefer to make trading my main job and career, engineering for fun and passion. You might not see it yet but in a working world, glass ceilings are everywhere. You start to see more the longer you work until one day you feel a sense of hopelessness. Add a wife and kids to make life extra miserable.

Which is why I want to master trading now. I realize that trading is my ticket out of the hellhole called "working for someone else".
  • #34
  • Jul 23, 2010 4:18am Jul 23, 2010 4:18am
Quoting thelws
BRB,
. Add a wife and kids to make life extra miserable.
".
HAHAHHA funny stuff.
  • #35
  • Jul 23, 2010 5:32am Jul 23, 2010 5:32am
This is an absolute "no brainer". According to your original post, you are simply taking "another job" which presupposes that you have a job already. In effect, your employment status and daily routines will not change. Therefore, it shouldn't significantly change the time you have available to study forex. The best time to learn Forex is when you are already working. FX is something that takes years, not months, to master.
  • #36
  • Jul 23, 2010 4:07pm Jul 23, 2010 4:07pm
Quoting Brb-Fraudin
I am going for an interview for a new job. They would pay me double my current job.
So you either aren't a trader, or you're a struggling trader? Take the engineering job.

As for me, yes I currently would, but only in the shorterm to boost capital.

Quoting Graceheather
Surely you can master both Engineering & Forex Trading.
Master is a strong term. An individual is very unlikely to master one, let alone both. Doing well is another matter.

Quoting thelws
Which is why I want to master trading now. I realize that trading is my ticket out of the hellhole called "working for someone else".
I'd rather go bush or beach bum than be a wage slave.

Quoting automated
Sure, If I have a good job, there's no need to do the trade with many of risk and fortunes like trading
I can only speak for myself, but it's the nature of the business and the risk and reward that it creates that makes trading interesting and rewarding.
  • #37
  • Jul 23, 2010 6:00pm Jul 23, 2010 6:00pm
Quoting Brb-Fraudin
I am going for an interview for a new job. They would pay me double my current job. Its an engineering job so its also of competitive nature and I need more studying. So I don't know if I would be able to resume learning FX.

So what do you people in jobs that require studying doing?? I only interested in FX because I like the challenge. I never quit something before I master it.
You say you never quit until you master something.

So which is it?

Job. (as they say "Just Over Broke")

or The Master.

Mr. J has some GREAT points but says he would not be a wage slave. Yet somewhere I think I read that he might hire traders. Just goes to show that nearly everything is a contradiction.

Personally, I wouldn't "trade trading" for something that I could make double
the amount of money that I do now (which of course would be about $9.97 per hour )

But then again, I don't have a lot of obligations at this point in time. Truthfully, the only person who can answer your question is you.

So.... pop open that spreadsheet, do some number crunching and see if you
can survive while trading, or would it just make more sense to take the job.

One final note, as someone said, don't get too secure in that job.
  • #38
  • Jul 23, 2010 7:02pm Jul 23, 2010 7:02pm
It's a simple choice for me. Slavery or freedom. That's the way I see it. If you are lucky be working for someone else and enjoying it then I envy you. Every job I ever had pretty much sucked. I have no interest in being part of the rat race anymore.
  • #39
  • Edited 8:10pm Jul 23, 2010 7:28pm | Edited 8:10pm
Quoting TradeRunner
Mr. J has some GREAT points but says he would not be a wage slave. Yet somewhere I think I read that he might hire traders. Just goes to show that nearly everything is a contradiction.
The hiring of traders was hypothetical - I'd have to be cashed up to take a risk on someone else. I also can't be the wage slave if I'm the one doing the hiring! Okay, I don't actually agree with that, as a wage slave is essentially someone who works to survive, rather than to get ahead, and many employers don't really get ahead. It can also be suggested they are relative wage slaves of the system.

I wouldn't view any good trader as a wage slave, unless they're poorly capitalised. If they are well capitalised, they will be appropriately compensated, and accumulate wealth. Trading also has a tradition thousands of years long of being one of the few occupations that allow excellent social mobility, so from a perspective, even a struggling trader isn't a wage slave, they're simply a work-in-progress (until they "succeed" or "fail").

I'll add that being a wage slave isn't necessarily a bad thing, depending on our philosophy and what we want from life.
  • #40
  • Jul 23, 2010 8:09pm Jul 23, 2010 8:09pm
For the Freedom that trading offers? NOT FOR A Million years!!!
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
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