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Malaysia central bank states Forex is illegal

  • #161
  • Jun 28, 2010 3:31am Jun 28, 2010 3:31am
1. I have written before about "complainers" who blew up their accounts thru their own natural incompetence. And when they know that they don't know, they still refuse to learn and take responsibility for their own stupidity.

2. In any market, if you don't do your homework, you get eaten by sharks.

3. re: BNM, just focus on the rules already published and ignore the BNM "helpdesk".

4. I have said countless times: BNM is not in the business of encouraging speculative behavior. Therefore their "helpdesk" responses will be to that end. The published laws, rules and circulars are the final word.

5. If a local trader cannot understand the legal language of existing rules, he should stop trading FX right now, and just buy mutual funds.

6. Trading stocks online is ALREADY possible in Malaysia, by the way.

7. Personally, I tend to ignore stock market punters. Even the millionaire ones. Especially the millionaires on Bursa. "Reliable" is relative and usually doesn't last very long. Especially on Bursa.


Quoting Ghazali
yes bro.. i did email them 2 times and they actually doesnt understand what im asking about( I dont know whether they really dont get me or just pretend to be dono). the 2 emails that i received nothing rather than they keep repeating saying illegeal..illegall...also illegeal....until i felt that the word illegal was sticked hardly to their mind and heart. BNM received complains...
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #162
  • Jul 1, 2010 12:25pm Jul 1, 2010 12:25pm
Hello everyone,

I'll get straight to my points. Since BNM may track our forex fundings and withdrawals via bank transfer, can you suggest ways to avoid these? (Up till now, I have been transferring my (forex) withdrawals (in small amounts) to Public Bank and had no bank query so far). I am thinking of opening an account with a foreign bank, but still wondering that I would still be transferring the money back to a local bank and would still get probed later anyway.

Besides that, is it appropriate to save all my (forex) profits in a local bank; let's say ASB account? My case is that I work on my own, and I am not subjected to pay income tax (at least at the moment). In case my (forex) profits turns out overwhelming, and my savings increase to an amount which might trigger suspicion for the bank or IRS or anyone, I was thinking of opening a business and just declare my forex profits to be my business income... Will that be a recommended strategy?

Your advices are greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance.
  • #163
  • Jul 2, 2010 1:56am Jul 2, 2010 1:56am
Quoting arick4eva
Hello everyone,

I'll get straight to my points. Since BNM may track our forex fundings and withdrawals via bank transfer, can you suggest ways to avoid these? (Up till now, I have been transferring my (forex) withdrawals (in small amounts) to Public Bank and had no bank query so far). I am thinking of opening an account with a foreign bank, but still wondering that I would still be transferring the money back to a local bank and would still get probed later anyway.

Besides that, is it appropriate to save all my (forex) profits in a local bank;...
Most human beings are motivated by rewards. So, if you can share your winning strategy or EA, i'm sure lots of ideas will come to protect one's own interest. For me, i've worked out this scenario what i started trading forex. You may PM me.

福 子 Victor V
  • #164
  • Jul 2, 2010 3:26am Jul 2, 2010 3:26am
Looks line instaforex will have seriouse issue in Malasya as they expanded radicly there. They was awarded by world finance magazine due as best asian broker. The way i see it Malasyan bank started wining to gov about instaforex activity and loose of exchange profits. time will show
  • #165
  • Jul 3, 2010 2:57pm Jul 3, 2010 2:57pm
Quoting arick4eva
Hello everyone,

I'll get straight to my points. Since BNM may track our forex fundings and withdrawals via bank transfer, can you suggest ways to avoid these? (Up till now, I have been transferring my (forex) withdrawals (in small amounts) to Public Bank and had no bank query so far). I am thinking of opening an account with a foreign bank, but still wondering that I would still be transferring the money back to a local bank and would still get probed later anyway.

Besides that, is it appropriate to save all my (forex) profits in a local bank;...
DEBIT CARD!!!!! im using ibfx and avafx as my brokers.. both provide debit card via payoneer... untraceable! hihihihi
  • #166
  • Jul 4, 2010 8:55am Jul 4, 2010 8:55am
  •  Jey
  • | Joined Jun 2009 | Status: Market Slave-Overworked/Underpipped | 283 Posts
Quoting wanrayman
DEBIT CARD!!!!! im using ibfx and avafx as my brokers.. both provide debit card via payoneer... untraceable! hihihihi
Are you sure they are untraceable? Someone told me that is traceable too, but honestly I dont know exactly how.

Okay, how often have you withdrawn and any problems so far?
Can it be done daily, I mean withdrawn daily?
What is the limit one can withdraw thru the ATMs in one day?
I have seen the enemy, and it is me.
  • #167
  • Edited 9:35pm Jul 4, 2010 7:56pm | Edited 9:35pm
1. All money transfers passing through the System are traceable. It's just a matter of whether they are reported in aggregate or on individual basis depending on the size.

2. If your amount per conversion transaction is below a certain reporting threshold (please refer to the relevant BNM circular. Please take the time to find out), your amount will be aggregated and reported accordingly. Your deal details will still be there, but because your amount is penny ante, (i.e. chicken shit), no one bothers.

3. If your amount per conversion transaction is above a certain threshold level, you will be required to merely declare the purpose of the amount using certain Purpose Codes (the Banks will advise), whether its for Goods, Services, Investment etc etc.

4. This is just a declaration. You are not asking BNM for permission to do anything. It's your money to do whatever you want. BNM merely wants you to declare that you are not a terrorist, a money launderer or Jason Bourne.

5. One of the main purposes for the declarations is for BNM to track the flow of the ringgit, and the purpose of the conversions for their statistical reporting. How else is the Government supposed to report to the Rakyat how the ringgit is performing if they don't do this?

6. G7 central banks do this all the time and nobody complains about them.

7. People who do complain should maybe migrate to Zimbabwe where the central bank doesn't track anything at all.

Quoting Jey
you sure they are untraceable? Someone told me that is traceable too, but honestly I dont know exactly how.

Okay, how often have you withdrawn and any problems so far?
Can it be done daily, I mean withdrawn daily?
What is the limit one can withdraw thru the ATMs in one day?
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #168
  • Jul 4, 2010 8:07pm Jul 4, 2010 8:07pm
1. Retail FX brokers like Instaforex serves primarily retail traders and not wholesale interbank traders.

2. Furthermore, there is hardly any crossover between retail FX flows flowing through retail FX brokers and FX flows through interbank trading.

3. Therefore, it is doubtful any Bank will complain about the activities of retail FX brokers as retail brokers' activities do not encroach on Banks' bread and butter business.

4. What is a typical big Bank's bread and butter business for their FX team? Trading FX, making money from market-making i.e. spread, wholesale FX sales etc. I repeat: WHOLESALE, not RETAIL.


Quoting Hercuok
Looks line instaforex will have seriouse issue in Malasya as they expanded radicly there. They was awarded by world finance magazine due as best asian broker. The way i see it Malasyan bank started wining to gov about instaforex activity and loose of exchange profits. time will show
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #169
  • Jul 4, 2010 8:09pm Jul 4, 2010 8:09pm
1. I agree using a debit card is a recommended method.

2. Being a banker, I disagree that it is untraceable.



Quoting wanrayman
DEBIT CARD!!!!! im using ibfx and avafx as my brokers.. both provide debit card via payoneer... untraceable! hihihihi
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #170
  • Edited 9:31pm Jul 4, 2010 8:59pm | Edited 9:31pm
1. I believe arick4eva's questions have actually been adequately answered in this thread in one form or another. I hope he has taken the time to read the thread from its inception.

2. As for his tax questions, I will refrain from commenting as I am not a licensed tax adviser and my own personal taxation issues may not be similar with those of other people.

3. What I'm most curious about is why some people here are so concerned about being "tracked" or being taxed "in case" their "profits turn out to be overwhelming" (as arick4eva put it), when they haven't even attained a consistent track record YET. i.e. shouldn't they concentrate more on making consistent money first?

4. For sure, I have heard all the arguments against tracking and taxes and I don't really completely disagree with them. I agree nobody LIKES to be tracked or taxed. But at the same time I don't find them disagreeably bad.

5. For instance, assuming procedures are followed, retail FX traders aren't really breaking any laws in this country, although some like Jey may respectfully disagree. (And I respect that.)

6. Law-abiding retail FX traders aren't money launderers, terrorists or superspies like Jason Bourne. So really, why the need for all the cloak and dagger stuff? Is it SIMPLY because of a grave dislike for paying taxes?

7. If it makes y'all feel comfortable, by all means please assume I'm damned stupid. I'm really trying to understand your motivations better.

8. Rookies don't need to answer this survey. I'm most interested in replies from people who are already trading for a living and making a decent living out of it.

9. (By the way, arick4eva... even if you open an account in HSBC KL, you will still get tracked as HSBC KL is locally incorporated (i.e. not a full branch of HSBC UK) and subject to BNM reporting rules. If you mean opening an account with a foreign bank abroad, EVERY time you convert and wire the money to fund your offshore account, your transaction is being tracked. )

Quoting arick4eva
Hello everyone,

I'll get straight to my points. Since BNM may track our forex fundings and withdrawals via bank transfer, can you suggest ways to avoid these? (Up till now, I have been transferring my (forex) withdrawals (in small amounts) to Public Bank and had no bank query so far). I am thinking of opening an account with a foreign bank, but still wondering that I would still be transferring the money back to a local bank and would still get probed later anyway.

Besides that, is it appropriate to save all my (forex) profits in a local bank;...
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #171
  • Edited Jul 5, 2010 4:41am Jul 4, 2010 9:53pm | Edited Jul 5, 2010 4:41am
  •  Jey
  • | Joined Jun 2009 | Status: Market Slave-Overworked/Underpipped | 283 Posts
Quoting imranyusof
I'm really trying to understand your motivations better.
Excellent replies imran Its always nice to hear from someone real knowledgeable in this field, which is a real rarity. Someone who knows their stuff well. Well my motivation is only this... I have given myself to learning this art and science of trading and I have reason to believe I have done justice to all that learning. I can reasonably do well. I can average 1k to 2k a week consistently. Attached is the latest done (demo) previous week. Now that would be great if we all could do it without the fears and worries of getting tracked, questioned, found out, etc. that is playing on so many trader's minds today. After reading thru most of your postings I tend to agree that most of the fears are unfounded however. Moreover, I would also like to get my hands on managing accounts which happens to be a no-no at the moment. So this is my motivation. If you have some advise for me in this regards, I can be reached at [email protected] Would love to hear from you.

I believe most of us are looking for a decent way to make money and do it without brushing against the law. The learning is done, the reaping of the rewards is the next goal.
I have seen the enemy, and it is me.
  • #172
  • Jul 4, 2010 10:36pm Jul 4, 2010 10:36pm
I like this thread, very good discussion with full of ethics.

However, why are we calling for license? Maybe Im stupid, but
just dont understand, ain't there illegally businesses going on in malaysia?
I dont think these guys looking for any license,or dont they?

The govt is already good enough, we dont have to ask for more, I think.

I know, some guy would be furious with my devils advocates thought, but I dont
even want to seek any popularity here. I'm tired of being a good guy any...lol

Come guys hit me..lol!
  • #173
  • Jul 4, 2010 10:46pm Jul 4, 2010 10:46pm
1. Hmm.. so basically (in your case), you don't want to be tracked just because you don't want to be tracked? A bit of circular logic there... haha

2. If your motivation is actually because you don't want to be found out to be illegally managing OPM (Other People's Money), then it is understandable, although I personally do not condone it.

3. There are obvious reasons why unlicensed fund management should be curtailed. The main reason being that an unlicensed manager will have less motivation to be transparent with his trading performance and this is detrimental to his investors' bottom line.

4. And central banks everywhere will want to spend less time fighting small fires every time an un-savvy punter loses money with an unlicensed money manager, hence the Laws to protect the People.

5. When licensing and/or professional certification is introduced, an investor can be (relatively) more assured that his manager is actually "qualified" to manage his funds.

6. Witness the handful of qualifications in the Financial Planning industry. Without these certs, any Tom, Dick and Shitprick can sell insurance or a mutual fund.

7. I don't think you need my advice for anything, but if I may add: maybe you should research what certifications fund managers have to go thru if you haven't done so already. I'm not in the fund management industry but my Association has its own certification process.



Quoting Jey
Excellent replies imran Its always nice to hear from someone real knowledgeable in this field, which is a real rarity. Someone who knows their stuff well. Well my motivation is only this... I have given myself to learning this art and science of trading and I have reason to believe I have done justice to all that learning. I can reasonably do well. I can average 1k to 2k a week consistently. Attached is the latest done (demo) previous week. Now that would be great if we all could do it without the fears and worries of getting tracked,...
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #174
  • Jul 4, 2010 11:24pm Jul 4, 2010 11:24pm
Quoting imranyusof
1. Hmm.. so basically (in your case), you don't want to be tracked just because you don't want to be tracked? A bit of circular logic there... haha

2. If your motivation is actually because you don't want to be found out to be illegally managing OPM (Other People's Money), then it is understandable, although I personally do not condone it.

3. There are obvious reasons why unlicensed fund management should be curtailed. The main reason being that an unlicensed manager will have less motivation to be transparent with his trading performance...
thanks imranyusof,

Your statement is all agreeable, and sure very ethical. tq

But let's have a discourse discussion.

With license "asset managers" can produce around 15%p.a the most,
without license "the shitprick" produce 30% the least if not 100% in one month. do or die kind of thing..lol
Can't these "fancy necktie asset managers" produce more than these "t-shirts
and jeans shitprick"?

The along more than 10% business a month,is also producing better than banks 9% p.a. Come to think about it,There must loop holes somewhere.

Underground economies like forex trading, does not need any regulatory body to monitor, unless public money has wacked up. That is where authorities comes when there's reports. Otherwise underground economies should be
where it should be.

But no matter how much been said, we and all of us are just finger tapping rhetorics. The underground economies have its own structure and always be!

If we dont have the power, we are just a bunch of hopeful idots!
  • #175
  • Edited 12:31am Jul 5, 2010 12:20am | Edited 12:31am
1. With apologies, I'm not interested in discussing the pros and cons of underground economies. I have my own opinions about them on whether SOME of these economies should or should not exist but I'm only interested in pointing out what we can or cannot do within existing frameworks and not in "ifs" or "kalau".

2. My long time sifu in the market had an interesting thing to say about it: we are not in a "kalau-kalau" market. If we can make a dollar out of every time we say "if", "kalau", "should have", "could have", "what if" etc, we'd be millionaires by now. What is important is always what we do now given the cards we are given eg. domestic regulations etc etc.

3. Without licensing and a regulated market, consumers (in this case, retail FX investors) have no recourse or avenue to complain to. Not even BNM can save stupid investors from their own stupidity. At least in a regulated market, the possibility of irresponsible fund managers being brought to book is higher somehow.

4. The above is a fact not an opinion.

5. By the way, if the "t-shirt and jeans shitprick" are so profitable, what's stopping them from getting the requisite certifications necessary to allow them to manage Other People's Money?

6. Is it because they are lazy, I wonder. In my line of work, if a trader is lazy in acquiring knowledge, chances are he'll be a sloppy trader. The learning never ever stops, and the market never stops evolving into a different animal.

7. I would recommend investors to stay away from "t-shirt and jeans shitprick" managers who are too lazy to learn because that 30% yield they claim will not last long (if it was even true in the first place).

8. At least fancy necktie asset managers have the license to publish independently-verified trading yields in their prospectuses. (we Bank FX traders don't wear ties, by the way. We're "special")


9. If a Tom, Dick or Shitprick says he can make 30% consistently, what reliable track record can he produce? His MT4 records? I've been in this business long enough to know Big Swinging Dicks don't last more than year and is only as good as his last trading statement.

10. By the way, I'm not trying to be ethical. Even if the Law allows unlicensed fund management, I would still only state pros and cons but I won't advocate against it.

11. My reason? Because I want stubborn rookie investors to continue placing money with unlicensed t-shirt and jeans shitprick managers so that when they lose money, they will quickly exit the market and stop contaminating the space.

12. Less money for them, more money for people like me. Life is unfair. And I thank God for that.

Quoting Satni
thanks imranyusof,

Your statement is all agreeable, and sure very ethical. tq

But let's have a discourse discussion.

With license "asset managers" can produce around 15%p.a the most,
without license "the shitprick" produce 30% the least if not 100% in one month. do or die kind of thing..lol
Can't these "fancy necktie asset managers" produce more than these "t-shirts
and jeans shitprick"?

The along more than 10% business a month,is also producing better than banks...
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #176
  • Jul 5, 2010 2:22am Jul 5, 2010 2:22am
Quoting Jey
Are you sure they are untraceable? Someone told me that is traceable too, but honestly I dont know exactly how.

Okay, how often have you withdrawn and any problems so far?
Can it be done daily, I mean withdrawn daily?
What is the limit one can withdraw thru the ATMs in one day?
im not sure whether its traceable or not as the debit card company is based in america not local bank's debit card.. but i've been withdrawing my funds every friday $500 to $1000 for the past 2 years.. havent encounter any problem yet.. and hopefully not.. hihihihi... but sometimes i have to withdraw twice as atm machines only limit RM1500 per transaction..
  • #177
  • Jul 5, 2010 2:29am Jul 5, 2010 2:29am


Quoting wanrayman
im not sure whether its traceable or not as the debit card company is based in america not local bank's debit card.. but i've been withdrawing my funds every friday $500 to $1000 for the past 2 years.. havent encounter any problem yet.. and hopefully not.. hihihihi... but sometimes i have to withdraw twice as atm machines only limit RM1500 per transaction..
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm not in the "convincing" business.
  • #178
  • Jul 5, 2010 4:38am Jul 5, 2010 4:38am
  •  Jey
  • | Joined Jun 2009 | Status: Market Slave-Overworked/Underpipped | 283 Posts
Quoting wanrayman
im not sure whether its traceable or not as the debit card company is based in america not local bank's debit card.. but i've been withdrawing my funds every friday $500 to $1000 for the past 2 years.. havent encounter any problem yet.. and hopefully not.. hihihihi... but sometimes i have to withdraw twice as atm machines only limit RM1500 per transaction..
Thanks! thats great to know. I suppose I wont have problems in withdrawing $10,000 every Fridays then. Perhaps need to withdraw a few times.
I have seen the enemy, and it is me.
  • #179
  • Jul 5, 2010 5:07am Jul 5, 2010 5:07am
Open a bank account in singapore. Transfer all money to singapore because their government is not actually a peice of shit. (yes im talking about barisan. Just let a chinese be prime minister plz. They will probably do a much better job than most previous 4 prime ministers)

Go to singapore once a month. Withdraw a load of cash. Bring it back to malaysia over the straits. Awesome untraceable money from BN.

Just make sure you don't suddenly buy a BMW and semi-d in bangsar with 50% upfront payment... in cash!
  • #180
  • Jul 5, 2010 6:02am Jul 5, 2010 6:02am
Just for the sake of BS:

Go to singapore once a month. Withdraw a load of cash. Bring it back to malaysia over the straits. Awesome untraceable money from BN.

Why bring the money back to MY? I would spend in SG buying latest gadgets or luxury goods, with GST refunds. What you paid for in MY is as expensive as if buying in SG but you get end of season or left over selections.

Just make sure you don't suddenly buy a BMW and semi-d in bangsar with 50% upfront payment... in cash!

Well, as of now buying BMW in SG IS CHEAPER than buying in MY!

MY BOLEH!

福 子 Victor V
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