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Swing momentum trading - the robots are taking over

  • #181
  • May 26, 2010 4:40pm May 26, 2010 4:40pm
Quoting obnoxious2
I'm using IBFX too and it seems that with the default settings. It will often not reach the TP and SL but instead ranges for a long while before it makes a move. Not to mention I thought no trades was suppose to take place after 12pm EST time or something of that sort? I've tried fiddling with the trading times since its broken down into two 12 hr periods but could someone help me set it so that positions can only be opened between 6:00-14:00 GMT? (I want to avoid the asian session since the volume is ridiculously low)
NB. All Steve`s Bots time settings refer to the computer clock time. therefore, the trading times should be adjusted depending on region time the pc which is running mt4 is set to. hope this helps.

kind regards
  • #182
  • May 26, 2010 4:50pm May 26, 2010 4:50pm
We can have any kind of take profit we want - ATR, ADR, MA, fib-based. synthesised tea-leaf reading, you name it.

Frankly, I did not believe for a moment that the SS indi that Karl sent me would have anything to commend itself. I coded it it into an ea only because I was bored and felt the coding bug - it had to be at least 36 hours since I last coded a robot.

The commented out code rfking2 talks about was the first to go when I started backtesting (twas the weekend), when I saw the profitable trades being closed out far too quickly. My choice of 100 pips for the sl/tp was a random guess.

It could be that the robot has enjoyed runaway success because every market in the universe is crashing (question: how can every market be falling? Surely if x markets are falling, then y markets must be rising? Perhaps I am simply not looking at the rising ones) and that an infant could make money by selling almost anything right now.

On t'other hand, EM on demo has not distinguished itself, on my demos at least.

So, maybe SS is the indi for current market conditions. We shall see.

I shall not be around for the next two days. One of my former victims is a main-study Sax player and she needs my fingers to accompany her end-of-year recital at music college. What with one thing and another, this will gum up the whole of the end of my week.

So, would you guys like to thrash out your preferred choice of tp style, and present me with an. "Ehup mush. This is what we want......" upon my return?

On another matter, despite my addiction to robots, I have spent the last 2 days walking buy/sell fibs down an EU M5 chart, picking up shed-loads of demo pips and a fair few live ones as well. If you haven't already visited, then really, really visit http://myspace.vtap.com/topic.html?d...e&usrn=BoBokus.

Given that EU is headed to Hell in a handbasket, all I have done is wait for the market to resume its downward movement as demonstrated by the above, before piling with a fresh trade. The only thing I have added to Bo's method is the D1 Rsi trend indication a la EM and others. I could have got the same trend guidance by eyeballing the chart.

Try it. It's fun.

  • #183
  • May 26, 2010 6:10pm May 26, 2010 6:10pm
Quoting octomanoak
Which bot are you referring to here?
Sorry, I have been really busy with the biz, the fam, school, and work. I only have time for fast replies with my phone sometimes during the day.

Swing momentum, continuation, and break are simply different stages in evolution for the same infrastructure. Each more advanced then the last using slightly different logic. So they all have the exit code.

What would happen if you activated the code in swing break and put in the changes I described? It would use a sell signal to exit a buy and a buy signal to exit a sell. Which sounds like a good idea in theory. Selling at the top of a zig and buying at the bottom, always in and every movement of the market making you money. But the reality is that with a three bar delay in entry and the spread, you end up at best breaking even on your trades. And when the market hiccups, all your trades exit in the red, only to open late in the other direction and swing back on you. Its better to do it manually with trend line channels so you know where resistance is.


Quoting SteveHopwood

So, would you guys like to thrash out your preferred choice of tp style, and present me with an. "Ehup mush. This is what we want......" upon my return?



I think it would be really cool to see a zz or ss type multi pair swing bot that incorporates a parabolic sar and kg rs group v1.1....

Just a thought
  • #184
  • May 26, 2010 7:11pm May 26, 2010 7:11pm
This bot is continuing to do well with latest settings. I'm using H4 timeframe for ATR TP and SL, but using MPTM to exit trades with BE and JS.

So far, no losing trades, but I'm sure that won't last. Still, there might be legs for longer-term results, even with a SL hit now and then.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: zz-swing-break-h4.jpg Size: 22 KB
  • #185
  • May 26, 2010 7:28pm May 26, 2010 7:28pm
Quoting rfking2
What would happen if you activated the code in swing break and put in the changes I described? It would use a sell signal to exit a buy and a buy signal to exit a sell. Which sounds like a good idea in theory. Selling at the top of a zig and buying at the bottom, always in and every movement of the market making you money. But the reality is that with a three bar delay in entry and the spread, you end up at best breaking even on your trades. And when the market hiccups, all your trades exit in the red, only to open late in the other direction and...
I see the dilemma in your suggestion. If the higher timeframe, which has bigger pip swings, determines trade direction on a lower timeframe, which has smaller pip swings, but the lower timeframe is only used for trade entry, does the dilemma still exist? The idea of "market flow" would "predict" that the confluence of swing breaks on higher timeframes is an indication that price will continue in that direction for awhile. If taking smaller TPs with BE and Jumping Stop settings and/or global closure, could you avoid the dilemma of negating profits as you would if closing on a reverse signal? I raise these questions, but do not know the answer.
  • #186
  • May 26, 2010 11:52pm May 26, 2010 11:52pm
Quoting rfking2
What would happen if you activated the code in swing break and put in the changes I described? It would use a sell signal to exit a buy and a buy signal to exit a sell. Which sounds like a good idea in theory. Selling at the top of a zig and buying at the bottom, always in and every movement of the market making you money. But the reality is that with a three bar delay in entry and the spread, you end up at best breaking even on your trades. And when the market hiccups, all your trades exit in the red, only to open late in the other direction and...
Yeah, I was out drinking earlier and this exact sentiment hit me which negates my whole previous suggestion. Continuously buying and selling based on when fractals and zz forms sounds all nice and everything but fractals takes 5 candles to form and candle 4 and 5 generally have moved in the other direction. I feel like the SwingBreak bot is pretty good at going where the markets are moving. It is just a siimple yet complicated method of best determining how to exit while we are ahead.

I'm not a huge fan of the fibonacci as an exit after watching the tutorial link Steve just posted. Seems the fibonacci would be better reinforcement along with the zz and fractal for enters. I've run EM for a couple of days and the way it handles exits is through "losses" in a sense that it falls back to the support of the lower fib line.

Not sure if we used a lower time frame like say 5 min to form fractals if it is a good indicator for the trading time frame of 15 minutes to exit and subsequently take the opposite position. The only worry would be whether or not the 5 min has too much noise.
  • #187
  • May 27, 2010 1:37am May 27, 2010 1:37am
As I anticipated, I finally got some losses.

I have looked at some of the losers. It looks like an additional filter for the entry candle to verify the candle color is in the direction of the intended trade "might" be useful to test as a user option. Something to think about.
  • #188
  • Edited 1:39am May 27, 2010 1:38am | Edited 1:39am
Quoting octomanoak
This bot is continuing to do well with latest settings. I'm using H4 timeframe for ATR TP and SL, but using MPTM to exit trades with BE and JS.

So far, no losing trades, but I'm sure that won't last. Still, there might be legs for longer-term results, even with a SL hit now and then.
Can you post the set of ZZ-Swing Break and MPTM, kindly?

I have tried them on MIG (what should not be ECN but it has 5 digits) but I have results negative and therefore I would like to verify if I correctly have setted the two EAs.

Thank you and best regards.

FranKalde
  • #189
  • May 27, 2010 1:55am May 27, 2010 1:55am
Quoting FranKalde
Can you post the set of ZZ-Swing Break and MPTM, kindly?

I have tried them on MIG (what should not be ECN but it has 5 digits) but I have results negative and therefore I would like to verify if I correctly have setted the two EAs.

Thank you and best regards.

FranKalde
There are no correct settings yet. I'm just reporting the settings I have tried. You should feel free to test settings too. But if you want to see the settings I have been using, look back to post #151. My settings may only work under some conditions, too early to know. I hope they will be a good start to finding settings that will give the bot some longer-term legs.

Also, results can be quite different from one broker to the next. My results might be unique to the broker I'm using (FXDD).
  • #190
  • May 27, 2010 9:28am May 27, 2010 9:28am
I let the swing break bot trade over night. I took a major hit. Originally it was just the xxxjpy pairs but then all my pairs started giving back whatever it had made the last 3 days.
  • #191
  • May 27, 2010 10:51am May 27, 2010 10:51am
Quoting obnoxious2
I let the swing break bot trade over night. I took a major hit. Originally it was just the xxxjpy pairs but then all my pairs started giving back whatever it had made the last 3 days.
Mine too, but it is still in profit, so perhaps it can withstand the SLs.
  • #192
  • May 27, 2010 1:20pm May 27, 2010 1:20pm
I can't seem to get the mptm to work. Take a look at this picture. The swingbreak bot took a position but the mptm isn't even managing yet. I originally had some other settings but I took it down one by one disabling each trying to narrow the possible causes. And right now it should have moved the stoploss up but it hasn't. Not to mention the frown face. Not sure why. Ideas?

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...g?t=1274984277
  • #193
  • May 27, 2010 2:40pm May 27, 2010 2:40pm
Quoting obnoxious2
...Not to mention the frown face. Not sure why. Ideas?
Obnoxious, you need to become more familiar with MT4. A frown face probably means you do not have the "allow live trading" item checked in the common tab of mptm properties dialog.

I respectfully suggest you study up more on the basics of MT4 and using expert advisors which will make you better able to address such issues. Maybe someone here knows a forum thread that can help. Your questions are legitimate ones, especially since you are just learning MT4, but such questions will surely annoy some forum leaders and contributors where the purpose of the thread is not about such basic features of MT4.
  • #194
  • May 27, 2010 3:00pm May 27, 2010 3:00pm
Quoting octomanoak
Obnoxious, you need to become more familiar with MT4. A frown face probably means you do not have the "allow live trading" item checked in the common tab of mptm properties dialog.

I respectfully suggest you study up more on the basics of MT4 and using expert advisors which will make you better able to address such issues. Maybe someone here knows a forum thread that can help. Your questions are legitimate ones, especially since you are just learning MT4, but such questions will surely annoy some forum leaders and contributors where the purpose...
Haha oh man I really need to pay attention more. But thank you for your continuous support and patience! I'll post the questions in the rookie thread next time.
  • #195
  • May 27, 2010 3:32pm May 27, 2010 3:32pm
Obnoxious,

Was your test with the most recent version of the bot with the sleep fix?

octo
  • #196
  • May 27, 2010 4:05pm May 27, 2010 4:05pm
Quoting octomanoak
Obnoxious,

Was your test with the most recent version of the bot with the sleep fix?

octo
The updated one on page 12 correct? Yeah I'm using that one.
  • #197
  • May 27, 2010 6:32pm May 27, 2010 6:32pm
Quoting octomanoak
As I anticipated, I finally got some losses.

I have looked at some of the losers. It looks like an additional filter for the entry candle to verify the candle color is in the direction of the intended trade "might" be useful to test as a user option. Something to think about.
Was a disaster day. Gave back whatever it had made previously nearly 1000 pip lost today. I am changing the ATR SL Settings to 0.5. It may be the case that your suggestion regarding additional filter may be a good idea.

kind regards
  • #198
  • May 28, 2010 7:17am May 28, 2010 7:17am
OOPS!! It would seem that the past couple of days were suited to SS. Today has been disastrous! All of the gains have been lost so I guess I will have to stay with it to see if today was just a bad day. Anyone else running this bot and if so, have you had more success today than I obviously have had? Back to the drawing board maybe!
Karl
  • #199
  • May 28, 2010 9:27am May 28, 2010 9:27am
With the default 1.5 TP and 1 SL. I have not had a single trade this week reach the 1.5 TP mark. I have had plenty of trades that hit the SL the last 2 days. Looking back, it seems the swingbreak bot is best used with the mptm. Using jumping SL with a target TP of somewhere between 20-30 pips for each jump trade since we're looking for more reliability. I think the max a trade left open moves in the profitable direction is somewhere in the 30-50 pip range most of the time which is well short of the 1.5 ATR. I'm going to lower the SL to somewhere around .5-.75. Will report back after next week.

On another note, this bot seems to be having trouble picking up market reversals. Since we're looking at the higher time frame and entering on the lower. It seems that on alot of reversals, due to the logic we are entering after the market has made a move and hoping that it makes the move agian. Except that once we enter, the momentum has lost and we're "hoping" to pick up whatever we can and not have it retrace on us.
  • #200
  • May 30, 2010 3:24pm May 30, 2010 3:24pm
Quoting octomanoak
As I anticipated, I finally got some losses.

I have looked at some of the losers. It looks like an additional filter for the entry candle to verify the candle color is in the direction of the intended trade "might" be useful to test as a user option. Something to think about.
To be honest, I cannot even remember what the trading rationale behind this robot is.

I had a look at the code. So far as I can tell, the robot does check the direction of movement on the entry candle at the time of taking the trade. This can change as soon as the trade is entered - perhaps this explains the apparent wrong direction of the candle. Don't know, mind.

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