Let's make a tournament - right here | Forex Factory

Options

Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

BELLA SYSTEM. Let's try it, let's improve it! 118 replies

Right Wrong Right Wrong Right Wrong 13 replies

Price Action - Right To Left Or Left To Right? 4 replies

Newb at the right place and the right time 1 reply

Let's Make Rule for this System 8 replies

Let's make a tournament - right here

  • #1
  • First Post: Edited 6:09am Jan 2, 2006 5:03am | Edited 6:09am
Everybody of us knows the fact that it is needed to make constant profits to be succesful in the market.

What do you guys think of a tournament with the following rules:

1.) Try to provide the longest profit row
2.) If one single loss occurs your row is broken and needs to be built up again.

I want to try this because I believe it could motivate us to make constant profit.

I do the start:
My latest profit-row is from 21.12.2005

21.12.2005 - [+1]
23.12.2005 - [+4]
29.12.2005 - [+3]

To view it go to my weblog or click on my signature.


edit
Here some more rules, based on math:

Trader A is holding an account of 1000 Euro, Leverage: 400:1
Trader B is holding an account of 1000 Euro, Leverage: 400:1

They're both trading the market for 2 days. Both Traders are trading with their whole accounts balance.

Trader A performs today +10 Pips. Tomorrow he performs +0 Pips.
Trader B performs today +5 Pips. Tomorrow he performs +5 Pips.


Who is doing better?
Let's figure this one out. Using the following calculator: http://www.oanda.com/products/fxmath/profit.shtml


Trader A:
first day:
Inserted Code
Primary Account Currency: EUR
Currency Pair: EUR/USD
Opening Rate: 1.2000
Closing Rate: 1.2010
Action: Buy
Number of Units: 400000 (1000*400)  
Profit: 333.05 Euro
accounts balance: 1000+333.05 = 1333.05 Euro
percents_to_add: +33.305%


Trader B:
first day:
Inserted Code
Primary Account Currency: EUR
Currency Pair: EUR/USD
Opening Rate: 1.2000
Closing Rate: 1.2005
Action: Buy
Number of Units: 400000 (1000*400)  
Profit: 166.59 Euro
accounts balance: 1000+166.59 = 1166.59 Euro
percents_to_add: +16.659%

Trader B:
second day:
Inserted Code
Primary Account Currency: EUR
Currency Pair: EUR/USD
Opening Rate: 1.2000
Closing Rate: 1.2005
Action: Buy
Number of Units: 466636 (1166.59*400)  
Profit: 194.35 Euro
accounts balance: 1166.59+194.35 = 1360.94 Euro
percents_to_add: +16.65966621%


Accounts comparison after two days
Trader A: 1333.05 Euro
Trader B: 1360.94 Euro

==> Trader B was more succesful in the same amount of time.
Imagine a Trader C who would do every day +1 Pip Profit.


I believe this leads to the following rules:
3.) if the gained pips are the same, compare the length of the row of profit. More length, more succesful
4.) if the length of the row of profit is the same, compare the gained pips. More Pips, more succesful.
  • #2
  • Edited 10:53am Jan 4, 2006 10:40am | Edited 10:53am
It would be nice to add such a prize to the prize, I believe every trader is looking for:
The prize that shows that your system IS working and it is working very well. Not perfect, but it's damn near to it.
edit: The above isn't really interesting...So please don't give it your attention. But the lower surely is, I think.

I regard making profit in a constant row as the only way to get as quick as possible rich.
Because if you can archieve such a goal you may set up this formula:

Inserted Code
[font=Verdana][size=1]
New_Accounts_balance = Start_Accounts_balance * Percent_to_add ^ (time_frame)
[/size][/font]


This really increases your account. What is a time_frame? It may be years, months, weeks, days or trades. The Percent_to_add is in relation to this time frame.
Maybe 10% in a year. 5% each month. 2% each week. or 0.5% each day. Constantly.

The more you're going down this ladder, the faster you're gaining money.

To add the challenging part of a community may improve our speed.
  • #3
  • Jan 4, 2006 10:41am Jan 4, 2006 10:41am
I have made this post to maybe get some people post their row of profit. We're all talking about that we need to have constant profit, well, let's take the next step and show it.

 WHAT IS A TRADE?
A Trade has got this three parts:
1.) Opening a position
2.) Waiting an amount of time
3.) Closing this position.

A single trade provides the information of the balance. It can be profit, zero or a loss.

WHAT IS A LOSS?
1.) Buying the market and selling it for less
2.) Selling the market and buying it for more

Making profit in a constant row is the only way of making much money, the only way to grow fast and it is a way everybody in this forum will agree on, I guess.

Some think in terms of:
"making every week 2%"
or
"making every day 0.5%"

So one may regard it as the row of constant profits each [trade, day, week, month, year, decade, life]

As I'm limited in my time to live, I have to stick with the earlier ones.

Aren't we're sitting in the same boat?
  • #4
  • Jan 4, 2006 10:43am Jan 4, 2006 10:43am
My rule is, that the price is telling the truth and only the price.

The idea is just simple: provide a constant row of plain profit by profit. A single loss breaks the row.

The thing is: if one is able to have such a row, it doesn't matter what leverage you trade, how much money you going to throw in, simply because if you do, money will come back. It's more about developing the ability to do the right decision, constantly. Therefore I thought of a tournament.

I can imagine of: in the first days of the tournament, some may have rows of 2 or 3, well let's say days. The tournament goes on and some provide rows of 3 to 4 and there's always still somebody who adds a single part to the row.
So there should be always a remembering who provided the longest row of profit.
To top this should be the goal.

Well I guess it could get exciting, don't you agree?
  • #5
  • Jan 4, 2006 10:44am Jan 4, 2006 10:44am
Both traders are trading EUR/USD. Both traders using the same amount of money in an account as start. 1000 Euro. Both trade the same leverage.

But both trade different.
Trader A is maybe making the first day +20 Pips, but the second -10. After two days he made +10 Pips.

Trader B is actually making also +10 Pips after two days, but he makes first day +5 and second day +5.
Why is he gaining more money than trader A?

Because he is simply able to grow is account exponential.


Imagine a Trader C who is trading 2 weeks. He has got the same settings as Trader A & B.
First week (in Pips):
Mo: -20
Tu: -30
We: -25
Th: +120
Fr: +100
week: +145

From Th to Fr he performed a row of profit. Which has got the ability to let grow his account exponential.

second week (in Pips):
Mo: +3
Tu: +5
We: +1
Th: +2
Fr: -2
week: +9

A row of profit appear from Mo to Th.


If you now watch only the weeks you have:
week_1: +145
week_2: +9

This is also a row of profit. It allows the trader to grow is account constantly each week. In this example for two weeks. So he is able to perform exponential growth.


I bet everybody of us is looking to trade constantly and to add every [day, week, month, year] a firm +x.x% to your account. So that your account is growing.


If you want to add every [day, week, month, year] a firm +x.x% to your account your profitable PIPS every [day, week, month, year] HAVE TO be bigger than your lost PIPS every [day, week, month, year].

So I ask everybody who whants to try this to join. I believe it is possible. And I believe it is possible to extend the row of plain profit.
  • #6
  • Edited 1:45pm Jan 4, 2006 10:45am | Edited 1:45pm
I didn't say that every decision, every trade should be right and profitable. This is a hell to archieve. But I've heard of some traders who are looking to add every week 1-2% to their accounts balance.
So they their right decisions in a week prevails the wrong ones, no matter what system they trade.

In my opinion exponential growth is neccessary to perfectly use the you given time. I regard it as the The Ultimate Chance.

I know I would be in a big trouble, if I made a row of profit let's say 5 days and now I start believing:
"Hey, finally I made it, let's power up the leverage and let's put all the money in".
And then my next trade is a loss. Hell I would be in kind of a really big trouble.

But I'm not that kind of a trader.

So this is what I regard as important:
1.) the current price is telling me the current truth
2.) all price-movements before the current price are telling me the current truth of the moments in the past.
3.) pips are very well showing me if I have performed well or not.

These are for me the facts on which I've got to rely on and on which I've got to build-up my system.

My trading-system is a program, a simulation. When I think I have to adjust it, I'm going to add and program something new. My goal is to clearly remember the price and its behavior.
But that's my trading system.

I just want to say that I'm not smacking against any wall, because I've got the ability to create by myself higher boots or stilts to easily get over this wall.

So I would not only focus on money, but also on pips which I regard in a very strong relation to money and profit, but no, focus also be set on development. The market is developing, too. Every tick. Because humans are.

But of course, it's just my opinion and I don't want to offend anybody. If you find your trading system suitable and money-generating, well it will be fine with me. http://www2.oanda.com/ubb/smile.gif

Cheers,
qweet
  • #7
  • Jan 4, 2006 10:47am Jan 4, 2006 10:47am
Okay. If a trader has got 10,000 Euro and he makes every month 10% so this would be 1000 Euro.

Well 1000 Euro in a month is actually pretty nice. You don't have go to work, you're your own boss, you can make your own decisions. You could be very happy with this 1000 Euro each month.
But I bet, you would quickly start to feel you want more.
Maybe you say, yes, let's take 100 Euro every month and live on 900, so you reinvest it and start growing the stuff.
I bet every human would do it, if not, you're actually damn happy but I think this isn't the majority.

So i think it comes down to %s. Because everybody likes the idea of "growing, developing, and so on."

So if this is the case, let's make the following example:
A man of 30 years is trading FOREX. He trades EUR/USD. He has got somehow 10,000 Euro which he doesn't really need now, so he thinks he should invest it. He's got also the ability to grow his account every month by 5%. He doesn't want to use his whole money, let's say he only uses 2000 Euro. Occurs to be a good money management, not to start with the whole money, don't it? If he performs better he would start use more money. But for the beginning he starts with 2000 Euro.

So the settings are set, using the following formula:

Inserted Code
 
 
 
Inserted Code
 
[font=Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif][size=2]New_Accounts_balance = Start_Accounts_balance * Percent_to_add ^ (time)
[/size][/font]
 
 
 In this case it would be:
 
 
Inserted Code
 
 
 
 
Inserted Code
 
[font=Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif][size=2]New_Accounts_balance = 2000 * 1.05 ^ (year*month)
[/size][/font]
 
 
 After five years the man has got:

37,358.37 Euro = 2000 * 1.05 ^ (5*12)
 
 A nice business, but he has also invested 5 years of his life...

Well maybe he should start now to get more money in...
 

What I want to say with this example: 

- Who has got the ability to grow his account every month by 5%?

- Who has just 10,000 Euro which he/she doesn't need and are really able to play around with. If you have, you actually are already rich. But I bet the majority doesn't have this size. 

- isn't time the most important factor in business? Just because if you're a millionaire with 70 isn't as nice as to be one with 30?
 

So I regard it as import to perform rows of profit, you simply have to, to really grow you account. Because if I don't do, I may be on the so called "safe side of money management", but is this also be true of "time management"? Hell it's not. But actually the you given time is the only ressource you're able to making money with.
 

Sayings of: „Well, 1000 Euro with trading each month would really suits my interests. I just wouldn't want to have anymore“ is in my opinion just not true. You would get pretty fast get used to this standard of life and yes, you would be looking for the chance to grow, grow and grow your business.
 

I have said what I regard as important to quickly grow ones business. 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #8 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 4, 2006 10:49am
 
                Jan 4, 2006 10:49am
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 
  Let me add one more thing about time:
 

How many things I'm able to do at just one day? How many actions can I take at one day? How many decisions are it?

Not so much I think.
 

How easily can this one day get summed up to one week, to a month to a year.
 

How damn short is life?
 

I've got a really big interest to use my time. 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #9 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 4, 2006 11:05am
 
                Jan 4, 2006 11:05am
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 

  How will it work?

For example how to report "row of success". What I understand is if you have 9 trades in a day and out of 9 you lost 2 will it include row of profit i.e. +7 or else, and what should be the time for reporting.

Let’s do it. It will be a game, fun, learning, and most important of them positive pips. 

Regards,

KFX 

  P.S. AS far as what i understand, my row of success for today was +4.                                   
        
 
 
 
Resource pooling  is the only solution. I love positive pips.
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #10 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 4, 2006 11:16am
 
                Jan 4, 2006 11:16am
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 
  Imagine a Trader C who is trading 2 weeks. He has got the same settings as Trader A & B.

First week (in Pips):

Mo: -20

Tu: -30

We: -25

Th: +120

Fr: +100

week: +145
 

From Th to Fr he performed a row of profit. Which has got the ability to let grow his account exponential.
 

second week (in Pips):

Mo: +3

Tu: +5

We: +1

Th: +2

Fr: -2

week: +9
 

A row of profit appear from Mo to Th.
 
 

If you now watch only the weeks you have:

week_1: +145

week_2: +9
 

This is also a row of profit. It allows the trader to grow is account constantly each week. In this example for two weeks. So he is able to perform exponential growth.
 

If one single loss occurs, your row of profit or "succes"  gets broken. But with the very first next profit a next row may start. To get the rows lengthen should be the goal. 
  
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #11 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 4, 2006 11:31am
 
                Jan 4, 2006 11:31am
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Quote
  
   How will it work?

 For example how to report "row of success". What I understand is if you have 9 trades in a day and out of 9 you lost 2 will it include row of profit i.e. +7 or else, and what should be the time for reporting.
 
 
 
 

In your example it would be:
 

trade 1: +1

trade 2: +1

trade 3: +1

trade 4: +1

trade 5: +1

trade 6: +1

trade 7: +1

trade 8: -1

trade 9: -1

day: +5
 

So trade 1 to trade 7 at this specifc day was a row of profit, which is able to lead to exponential growth.

The time for reporting you can choose by yourself. Imagine it would be:
 

month 1: +1

 month 2: +1

 month 3: +1

 month 4: +1

 month 5: +1

 month 6: +1

 month 7: +1

 month 8: -1

 month 9: -1

3/4 year: +5
 

also a row of profit, but in a bigger time-frame.
 

month 1: +1

  month 2: +1

  month 3: +1

  month 4: -1

  month 5: +1

  month 6: +1

  month 7: +1

  month 8: +1

  month 9: -1

 3/4 year: +5
 

a row of profit from 1st month to 3rd month, then the line gets broken. Then a new row starts from the 5th month to the 8th, it gets broken again.
 

edit: corrected spelling mistakes                                   
        
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #12 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 4, 2006 12:22pm
 
                Jan 4, 2006 12:22pm
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 

                                               I get it.  Thank you. 

What time should we use to report ROP? Espacially daily. After closing NY, and how we will show pips in this reporting?

Regards,

KFX                                   
        
 
 
 
Resource pooling  is the only solution. I love positive pips.
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #13 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 4, 2006 12:27pm
 
                Jan 4, 2006 12:27pm
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Quoting Khalid Shahzad
  
I get it.  Thank you. 

What time should we use to report ROP? Espacially daily. After closing NY, and how we will show pips in this reporting?

Regards,

KFX
  
 
 

I get the answer from your above post.  
 
 
 
Resource pooling  is the only solution. I love positive pips.
 
 
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #14 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 4, 2006 5:47pm
 
                Jan 4, 2006 5:47pm
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 

                                               Sorry qweet but I disagree that we should be focussed on making every trade a profit.  I would go so far as to suggest that you have a problem accepting losing trades.  Losing trades are a necessary part of trading and need to be embraced just as much as winning trading.  I think a better competition would be to see how many trades in a row you can EXACTLY follow your trading strategy - this is what makes a trader great.
 

What would you rather:
 

+1

+1

+1

+1

+1

+1

-1
 

For a row of 6 OR
 

+13

-4

+7

-4

+28

-4

+17

-6
 

For a row of 1.  The win/loss is only 1 of the things to look at when assessing a trading system and it isn't even close to being the most important!
 

Simon                                   
        
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #15 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 5, 2006 2:06am
 
                Jan 5, 2006 2:06am
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Quote
  
Sorry qweet but I disagree that we should be focussed on making every trade a profit. I would go so far as to suggest that you have a problem accepting losing trades. Losing trades are a necessary part of trading and need to be embraced just as much as winning trading. I think a better competition would be to see how many trades in a row you can EXACTLY follow your trading strategy - this is what makes a trader great.
 

What would you rather:
 

+1

+1

+1

+1

+1

+1

-1
 

For a row of 6 OR
 

+13

-4

+7

-4

+28

-4

+17

-6
 

For a row of 1. The win/loss is only 1 of the things to look at when assessing a trading system and it isn't even close to being the most important!
 

Simon
 
 
 
 

Hello DrRock, 
 

I DID NOT SAY TO MAKE EVERY TRADE A PROFIT, you could also say, that you make every month or every year profitable.

So you have got a row of months and years which allows exponential growth. And they surely include LOSSES.
 

  +13

-4

+7

-4

+28

-4

+17

-6

  = +47
 
 

 If this is a week you have not performed a single row of profit, I totally agree, but it still has given you a profit, absolutely right.
 

 But what's about the next week? If the next week is also profitable, you have performed a row of weekly profits, which leads to growth.
 

  I am sure everybody is looking to perform constant growth, because it is the only thing which really allows you to get richer.
 

 So maybe you're looking to grow every month by 2%. Wouldn't it be nice to know how long it would take you, to have the wished amount of money?
 
 

  If you've got 1000 Euro and grow it every month by 2% you can set up this:
 

  New_Accounts_balance = 1000 * 1.02 ^ (year*month)
 

  If this is done constantly, what I get out of your statement of:
 
 
 
 
Quote
  
  I think a better competition would be to see how many trades in a row you can EXACTLY follow your trading strategy
 
 
 

  so if this is done constantly, you need exactly 10 YEARS TO GROW FROM 1000 EURO TO 10,765.16 EURO
 

  Don't you agree that this amount of time is a bit too much?
 

  Regards,  

  qweet                                   
        
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #16 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 5, 2006 2:12am
 
                Jan 5, 2006 2:12am
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 

                                               I didn't mention anything about returns - I believe that the job of a trader is to follow a trading strategy.  The returns will be what they will be.
 

Simon                                   
        
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #17 
    •  
  •   
                                    Jan 5, 2006 2:40am
 
                Jan 5, 2006 2:40am
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Quote
  
 I didn't mention anything about returns - I believe that the job of a trader is to follow a trading strategy. The returns will be what they will be.
 
 
 

Yes they will. But how much time do you want to invest? Regard the fact that the you given time is limited, so are your trading-actions.                                   
        
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
  
 
 
     
  •  #18 
    •  
  •   Last Post: 
                                    Jan 5, 2006 2:48am
 
                Jan 5, 2006 2:48am
                                  
    •  
 
 
  
 
 
 

                                               So, make a system that has a 100% per year compounded return per year.  It could have a win/loss of 25%, 55% or 75% the result at the end of the year is the same.  Doesn't matter if it only has 1 winning week in 4 or every week is a winner.
 

Simon                                   
        
 
  
 
  
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
 
 
 
                                    0 traders viewing now