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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #5,141
  • Apr 18, 2010 3:42pm Apr 18, 2010 3:42pm
Quoting pavikogm

As I understand the routing can be not fully controlled by MBT, maybe there is possibilty of "repairing" those stuck orders automatically - probalby the procedure is done mechanically by dealing desk when someone call it. Some script could search after maintenance/rollover period for bad orders and "repair" them.... ?

Regards
Pavikogm,

Without getting too technical, you’re part right and part wrong. Is there a possibility of “repairing”? Sure, if it is something that we have seen before. Then you said “Probably the procedure is done mechanically by the dealing desk.” Not really.

The issue is whether the order was stuck with us or out at a destination. When they get stuck out at a destination, there are certain things that we have to do. In this case, it was something new that we hadn’t seen before due to something the destination did. That’s why it only affected certain orders.
  • #5,142
  • Apr 18, 2010 3:44pm Apr 18, 2010 3:44pm
Quoting Trader KGB
Technically they did change it, though oddly it was a bit subtle....
Trader KGB,

Good to hear from you. Been a while. Hope all is well.

However, I would say that the email that you received wasn’t news at all, it was simply an update. Our policy has always been 100 to 1 leverage. In the past, we have used a combination of manual and automated systems to handle risk as client asks get overleveraged due to market moves. In reality, though, once you clear 100 to 1, most accounts are at a very substantial danger level, and we have always reserved the right to close positions immediately after that point. The move from a breach of 1% to something near $0 on the account is often a quick one. Most people that hold positions for weeks don’t let their accounts get to that point, so it usually applies to highly leveraged active individuals.

What caused the confusion is that when we launched MetaTrader, it has a strict 1% margin policy, which means that once you account breaks 1% in any manner, a liquidation occurs. It’s 100% automated. So we had customers used to Navigator (now Desktop) that moved to MetaTrader and also new customers trying both software front ends, and they felt that there was a slightly different margin experience because the software capabilities were completely different.

Then add the fact that we are slowly blending the feature set of both platforms so that you can trade with MetaTrader AND our own software from one account, and it became clear that to end the confusion, we needed to be clear about the policy. So, the policy remains what MetaTrader has always done and what Navigator/Desktop were in theory, even though there wasn’t a manual process on Nav/Desktop. Ultimately, they are going to work about the same.

This announcement the other day wasn’t news. What WILL be news shortly (and the prior announcement was a reminder leading up to the next one) is that we will now be establishing fully automated margin call policy on the Nav/Desktop side as well so that both are as close to identical as possible (Meta and Nav/Desktop). This will be a major step in bridging the two platforms. Imagine being able to trade via MT4 when you wanted and also have the advanced charting capabilities of Desktop Pro from the same account when you wanted it (or even our new Lightwave platform, which makes sharing custom scripts between customers easy).

So, sorry if anyone took the announcement the other day in the wrong manner. It wasn’t news, it was a restatement to put everyone on the same page between the platforms.
  • #5,143
  • Apr 18, 2010 3:49pm Apr 18, 2010 3:49pm
Quoting kennyhubbard
Justin,

Thank you for your response. Please note that my objective here is not to flame MB Trading. I feel that there is tremendous potential but I am frustrated that I may end up not being able to profit from it because of the issues under discussion.

On to the debate :-

I am not sure my statment is overblown at all. You need to consider my questioning of the safety of trading with MB Trading from my point of view......

I trade the Asian Session and that means I trade at rollover time. The fact that you only had 6 issues in the last 365...
Hey Kenny,

Thanks for the response.

Regarding your comment about 365 days and MetaTrader being only available for 6 months (there have not been 6 in 6 months)…the rollover process is something that has existed globally and with us since we started trading FOREX since we do it in a pure STP/ECN fashion. I wasn’t just referring to MetaTrader when I made the statement about how many “issues” we’ve had on rollover in the last year.

Not sure what you mean by “undoing” them. Your orders were stuck initially, then once freed, they couldn’t be adjusted via MetaTrader so they wouldn’t execute. We typically send emails (check your regular email and MetaTrader inbox) when we see orders get rejected to let you know, but again, you need to call in if you see that problem. We can’t just make assessments on your account and change your orders for you without your voice.

Unfortunately, there are technology issues from time to time. That’s the nature of the business. The CME went down for 45 minutes less than 2 months ago. NYSE has had a problem. There have been options exchange problems in the last month. Between the unfortunate times that that happens, plus the possibility in Forex that the market will jump on news, there is always risk. I certainly wouldn’t want you to think that there is no risk in trading Forex or even no risk in trading with ANY BROKER in ANY MARKET. Don’t forget, we offer stocks, futures, and options as well, and we hear it about those with the CME goes down, which is also outside of our control.

We can detect when there is a problem with an account. So can you if your order gets rejected. Also, there is an extra layer between Nav/Desktop and MetaTrader. We had some Nav accounts also affected by the problem, but they were fixed immediately. So we are looking into what can be done in case this unique circumstance arises again to solve the problem for those orders on MetaTrader. This specific instance (that happened twice this week) has never happened before. And of course, we are on it.

And I have beg to different about your last statement “This was somebody’s gain, presumably your liquidity provider.” This was nobody’s gain. That MIGHT be true if your order was executed 100 pips away on a bad fill or something. Obviously, then, whomever had the other side of the trade made 100 pips where you lost them. The problem here is that NO EXECUTION OCCURRED. That means no one gained and we have no one to go to (we may have someone to blame) to ask for the “money back that they made.” The problem was exactly the opposite. Your order didn’t execute at all. I just wanted to make sure you understood that.
  • #5,144
  • Apr 18, 2010 3:56pm Apr 18, 2010 3:56pm
Here is a quick look at the most important economic events that every currency trader should pay attention to during the trading week ahead (Note: All times Eastern) from our friends at TVN.

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  • #5,145
  • Apr 18, 2010 4:41pm Apr 18, 2010 4:41pm
Quoting jleblang
Trader KGB,

Good to hear from you. Been a while. Hope all is well.

However, I would say that the email that you received wasn’t news at all, it was simply an update. Our policy has always been 100 to 1 leverage. In the past, we have used a combination of manual and automated systems to handle risk as client asks get overleveraged due to market moves. In reality, though, once you clear 100 to 1, most accounts are at a very substantial danger level, and we have always reserved the right to close positions immediately after that point. The move...
can u quote us a example,say usd-jpy with $100 in the trading acct pls,so that we can better understand u justin
  • #5,146
  • Apr 18, 2010 10:53pm Apr 18, 2010 10:53pm
Hi Justin,

Actually, you are correct........I have experienced 4 problems with 5 trades in the last 7 months.....that I know of. I found the reference to 365 days confusing as I am only talking about Metatrader.....not sure why you bringing the other platforms into it?

I think you are dodging my point about getting my money back from the party responsible for this problem. I am a simple man and while you can get technical about execution(or non-execution), the fact is I am $250 out of pocket, which means that money went somewhere.....with or without execution. You said that you would void the trade at your expense if the fault was with MB Trading. Frankly, that is only lip service, as I have no way of knowing who is responsible.....you could go to your liquidity provider and they would say its not them but their IT company, who could blame their sweatshop CPU manufacturer in China..........I believe this is what is called "passing the buck". From my point of view, MBT is always responsible, after all what am I paying commission for?

Despite this, why do you not approach the errant bank and get them to re-imburse MBT just like you should re-imburse me.

Quote
We typically send emails (check your regular email and MetaTrader inbox) when we see orders get rejected to let you know, but again, you need to call in if you see that problem. We can’t just make assessments on your account and change your orders for you without your voice.

I did check my emails, and there is nothing. Both in the MT4 terminal and my regular email.

Let me address this contention that you cannot change my orders. Are you saying that you can see my terminal sending orders and when they get rejected, you cannot do anything until I call in???

Justin, you are going to have to explain this one to me, as I simply do not understand. An order from my platform is bone fide evidence that I want out of the trade. How on earth could there ever be any other interpretation? What is the point of the 1024 bit RSA encryption, if you cannot use the information coming from a properly authorized source??

Also, when you see the rejected orders, do you try a reset on the account. What I can tell you is that each time when I call in, in the minute or two before your trade desk closes the order, my OrderModify instructions do get executed, so I am under the impression that there is something that happens from your side that changes in that last minute.

Lets summarise, you can see that there is a problem on my account. You are able to reset or act on the account in a way that will allow my orders to flow from the platform to your server but you need me to phone in before you do anything.........and you are telling me that this problem is not with MB Trading........would that be accurate?

Ok, let put that one aside for now......what about trades that have server side stops in place? How do you treat these, as I am in no way party to that trade. I have made my trade and it is in your system. I sit back and somehow between MBT and the bank, my stop does not get executed. You simply pass the buck to the bank and that is the end of it......this is what I meant by my comment when I said, you guys need to up your game. I am always amazed that people will happily take my money but are not prepared to be held accountable for delivery.
  • #5,147
  • Apr 19, 2010 4:02am Apr 19, 2010 4:02am
justin,it seem like alot of people r waiting for your explanation,pls advise asap,thanks!
  • #5,148
  • Apr 19, 2010 6:51am Apr 19, 2010 6:51am
Quoting fxking
justin,it seem like alot of people r waiting for your explanation,pls advise asap,thanks!
What the big deal? They offer 100:1, that should be pretty easy to understand. If you look at what he has said, they appear to be moving so that the calls are handled in a MT4-fashion. I think it's very clear.
  • #5,149
  • Apr 19, 2010 7:08am Apr 19, 2010 7:08am
Quoting fxking
can u quote us a example,say usd-jpy with $100 in the trading acct pls,so that we can better understand u justin
FXKing,

A margin call is generated when your account exceeds 100 to 1 leverage. So if you have $100 in an account and buy 10 (1 full) lots USDJPY, you’re account is fully leveraged. A tick against you would automatically close out the position in MetaTrader (always has been that way), and it will trigger a margin call in Desktop/Nav. Soon, either option will automatically close the position, although the Nav/Desktop side might close out based on different parameters. Once that is an automated process, we will announce it and make it clear on the website. For now, on the Desktop/Nav side, it is still manually handled at that level, which means that we contact you immediately and work to resolve the situation quickly. Obviously, if your position moves against you fast, automated systems handle the situation anyway.
  • #5,150
  • Apr 19, 2010 7:18am Apr 19, 2010 7:18am
Quoting kennyhubbard
Hi Justin,

Actually, you are correct........I have experienced 4 problems with 5 trades in the last 7 months.....that I know of. I found the reference to 365 days confusing as I am only talking about Metatrader.....not sure why you bringing the other platforms into it?

I think you are dodging my point about getting my money back from the party responsible for this problem. I am a simple man and while you can get technical about execution(or non-execution), the fact is I am $250 out of pocket, which means that money went somewhere.....with or...
Kenny,

 

  1. Our execution is not based on Meta or Nav, it is sent through the ECN, which has been operating for years. So when we discuss an execution issue, it is not about MT4. When we talk about rollover and maintenance, that is an execution discussion and is not about the software that you use to execute (Desktop/Nav or MT4).
  2. Actually, we are definitely NOT always responsible. And of course, we cannot just be responsible for problems outside of our control when running a system like this. This is the way that it has been for years.
  3. Yes, in this case, we could see that the attempts to change the order were being rejected, but there was nothing that we could do. As I’ve said, it was an unusual case that is being looked into and addressed so that in the future (once we get a fix) it won’t happen.
  4. There’s no such thing as “reset” on the account once this happened. I think you can just assume that if there had been an easy fix the other day, we would have done it. Why wouldn’t we have?
  5. Let me summarize as it relates specifically to what happened the other day: We saw that a few orders had an issue. We could tell because attempts to change those orders were rejected. Due to the manner in which they were affected, there was no way to reconnect the front-facing order in Client MT4 to the back-end order on the ECN. We can manually push a close execution through on the account and bust out the problem trade, but that requires a phone call to the trade desk from you.

  • #5,151
  • Apr 19, 2010 11:26am Apr 19, 2010 11:26am
Hi
In last few weeks things not go so good with MT4 , MBT
For example Now 20 min i try modify limit order and i got OFF Quotes and
Now and every-time i go chat with support He says "Call the help desk "
I wounder what he is doing if can't solve that Beside i live out of USA and not everyone can make International call every-time have a problem!!
  • #5,152
  • Apr 19, 2010 12:00pm Apr 19, 2010 12:00pm
Quoting egkid
Hi
In last few weeks things not go so good with MT4 , MBT
For example Now 20 min i try modify limit order and i got OFF Quotes and
Now and every-time i go chat with support He says "Call the help desk "
I wounder what he is doing if can't solve that Beside i live out of USA and not everyone can make International call every-time have a problem!!
Slow help in fast moving market and MT4 Problem repeated some time
My question Are you happy with that Justin?

egkid: Got off quotes and have sell limit want to delete
MBT Ryan: You will need to contact the trade desk regarding a trade issue.
egkid: i try close and open and turn off pc and all not work
egkid: i can't i live out of USA
MBT Ryan: 1+(310) 647-4279 or (866) 628-3003
MBT Ryan: Unfortunately the only way to resolve a live trade issue is by talking to the trade desk via telephone.
MBT Ryan: We have an international number for foreign clients.
egkid: I can't make international call Now
egkid: beside am i need to call everytime have off quotes??
MBT Ryan: You can e-mail them at [email protected] with a request for contact.
MBT Ryan: The trade desk is the only department that can handle live trade errors, and they are only accessible those two methods.
egkid: does Justin there?
MBT Ryan: Justin works here, but there is nothing he can do.
egkid: this is suppose to be fast help and u asking to to mae international call other wise go write mail and wait
MBT Ryan: A phone call is very prompt service,.
egkid: tell him egkid from FF Have a problem
egkid: i can't make international call now
MBT Ryan: Then you'll have to e-mail a request for contact to the trade desk. I can also forward a request to ensure they contact you.
egkid: lol 35 min try to solve this and no use !!!!! This is not level of service i expecting from MBT
MBT Ryan: I do apologize, however, there are methods of contact available to resolve this issue.
egkid: WHICH is i go write email and wait reply On this type of fast moving market or make international call
egkid: Thanks Ryan that really help
MBT Ryan: The cost of making the international call could far outweigh any losses in the market.
egkid: it's not about the cost .... anyway i give up to complain, i guess i will go and writ email and wait reply
egkid: bye
MBT Ryan: I am sorry for any inconveniences caused, and I hope you have a great day. https://admin.instantservice.com/htm...ges/spacer.gif
  • #5,153
  • Apr 19, 2010 12:24pm Apr 19, 2010 12:24pm
Quoting egkid
Slow help in fast moving market and MT4 Problem repeated some time
My question Are you happy with that Justin?
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=2]
[color=#0033ff]egkid: Got off quotes and have sell...
Egkid,

I am actually perfectly fine with all of Ryan’s responses. You contacted him via on-line Chat. Ryan is in our Phoenix office, which is designed to help with MetaTrader 4 software, not execution. Anything that is trade based must be handled by our Order Desk in California by licensed individuals who can legally pull up your account details and place a trade for you or help you with a trade problem. You know that from these boards and Ryan restated it all correctly. You have several options. You can call the numbers that Ryan suggested or you can email the trade desk at [email protected] and request that they call you. At this time, our only legally approved method for placing orders for a customer are over the phone where you voice is recorded and we can hear and request security verification of who you are. Even if you are, let’s say, at work and can’t dial an international number, in the time that you spent with Ryan, you could have sent an email to ordertakers@ and received a call back.
  • #5,154
  • Apr 19, 2010 12:47pm Apr 19, 2010 12:47pm
Quoting jleblang
Egkid,

I am actually perfectly fine with all of Ryan’s responses. You contacted him via on-line Chat. Ryan is in our Phoenix office, which is designed to help with MetaTrader 4 software, not execution.

And i Have software problem which is OFF Quotes!!
I sent Email to Support and Well I'm waiting to handle That Off Quote !!
  • #5,155
  • Apr 19, 2010 1:44pm Apr 19, 2010 1:44pm
Quoting egkid
And i Have software problem which is OFF Quotes!!
I sent Email to Support and Well I'm waiting to handle That Off Quote !!
Egkid,

An Offquotes message when you are trying to close a trade or change a trade is an execution problem. It is not a software issue. We cannot change the messaging within MetaTrader software as it is not something we own or control. That message pops up when you have a stuck order and at that point, you have a trade problem. It relates to the orders we have been talking about.
  • #5,156
  • Apr 19, 2010 2:12pm Apr 19, 2010 2:12pm
Quoting jleblang
Egkid,

An Offquotes message when you are trying to close a trade or change a trade is an execution problem. It is not a software issue. We cannot change the messaging within MetaTrader software as it is not something we own or control. That message pops up when you have a stuck order and at that point, you have a trade problem. It relates to the orders we have been talking about.
I sent Ticket to support
And sent mail [email protected] As u said And to [email protected]

Still waiting to be solve !
  • #5,157
  • Apr 19, 2010 3:09pm Apr 19, 2010 3:09pm
Quote
egkid: does Justin there?
egkid: tell him egkid from FF Have a problem

HAHAHAHA!! Now that is nothing short of hilarious.
Cap
  • #5,158
  • Apr 19, 2010 3:44pm Apr 19, 2010 3:44pm
Quoting The Captain
HAHAHAHA!! Now that is nothing short of hilarious.
LOL. That is a good one. Why do people think it is OK that someone could just type in and tell MB to run a trade in an account? I think that would be very scary if it were that easy.
  • #5,159
  • Apr 19, 2010 3:56pm Apr 19, 2010 3:56pm
Justin, I swear, you have the patience of a saint.
  • #5,160
  • Apr 19, 2010 6:50pm Apr 19, 2010 6:50pm
Quoting egkid
I sent Ticket to support
And sent mail [email protected] As u said And to [email protected]

Still waiting to be solve !
Just to be clear, you emailed them requesting they call you back and you included your number, correct?
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