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Trade Guider System VSA, fact or fiction?

  • #61
  • Apr 18, 2010 11:55am Apr 18, 2010 11:55am
pretty childish to call it beef.. especially when the subject is far more eloquent than yourself
  • #62
  • Apr 18, 2010 11:59am Apr 18, 2010 11:59am
Quoting Sim
pretty childish to call it beef.. especially when the subject is far more eloquent than yourself

ah the joy of forums, this has all been discussed before.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...-not-3736.html
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #63
  • Apr 18, 2010 12:13pm Apr 18, 2010 12:13pm
Asgard2, you mentioned market profile, got a nice thread here http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...ding-2423.html might be of interest to you.
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #64
  • Apr 18, 2010 1:54pm Apr 18, 2010 1:54pm
Quoting gez40
ah the joy of forums, this has all been discussed before.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...-not-3736.html

relevance to my comment? zero.
  • #65
  • Apr 18, 2010 4:32pm Apr 18, 2010 4:32pm
If everyone's put down their handbags ... the OP started a thread called VSA fact or fiction... well to my mind there should only be one question when looking at VSA in fx which is the assumption that tick volume can be a proxy for real volume.

Knowing that you can't trust a random forum punter anymore than you can trust a financial adviser, a while back I tested to see in particular if low volume : high moves or high volume : low moves had any predictive power at all. They didn't.
But more importantly, I tested to see how closely correlated price moves were (pips) vs ticks... and they were almost exactly correlated. ie, if you're looking at tick volume, you might as well be looking at a pip count.

I can't be asshatted to find my original research on this, so again... do your own due diligence. I used a paid-for aggregated Esignal feed; maybe you'd have more luck with a single provider though I doubt it.

I did find something interesting mind - at any given point, price is more likely to retrace than it is to carry on in it's same direction, giving rise to the most important trading axiom in FX ... always be fading. At the time when I did this research I thought that tick volume was behind this... I later found that as tick = price, it's actually a function of price.

Finally, in case this post gets used as a stick to beat VSA fans with, it shouldn't. The thinking and interpreting of price according to the principals is sound (though the terminology makes the simple seem more complicated than it needs to); it's just that the profitability of VSA for FX depends entirely on experience and chart interpretation; and the 'signals' provided by the volume don't have any predictive power at all.
  • #66
  • Apr 18, 2010 4:43pm Apr 18, 2010 4:43pm
amen to that
  • #67
  • Apr 18, 2010 7:15pm Apr 18, 2010 7:15pm
Quoting triphop
I later found that as tick = price, it's actually a function of price.

The thinking and interpreting of price according to the principals is sound (though the terminology makes the simple seem more complicated than it needs to); it's just that the profitability of VSA for FX depends entirely on experience and chart interpretation; and the 'signals' provided by the volume don't have any predictive power at all.
Someone asked why this thread was started and you have supplied the answer.

A tick is a function of price and not the other way around.

The trade guider system, seeks to confuse the uninitiated with terminology unfamiliar to forex users.

Although I believe the idea of VSA is fundamentally sound there are some problems with the trade guider version in regards to its application in forex.

Example, relative volume in forex needs to consider market hours because you are not getting the same activity in the lesser hours. In those hours the Market Maker is free to move the market and collect orders for the order flow process.

As bigger markets open the manipulation of price to aid the orderflow process in much more constrained.

It seems clear that some newer traders have no idea what a two bar upthrust is, the same can be said upthrust and each of the other candle patterns hidden within foreign(forex) terminology by Trade Guider.

Certainly they have no idea they are trading regular candle patterns that will have a higher percentage of success than other candles with or without the addition of volume.

I have no problem that people make money from others that are too lazy to make their own enquiries.

What I do have a problem with is when people are clearly putting in the effort and loose confidence in the possibility of success due to being manipulated by the offering of a turkey dressed up as a lollipop.

If there is nothing to hide and they are not trying to entice people into a web of deceit, then why have they changed the standard forex terminology for other equivalents?

The addition of volume into the equation in the form it is applied by Trade Guider for forex, will only help to lead to poor decisions.

I don't care if people loose money, I just like them to have the opportunity to do it with their eyes open.
  • #68
  • Apr 18, 2010 7:54pm Apr 18, 2010 7:54pm
Quoting asgard2
Example, relative volume in forex needs to consider market hours because you are not getting the same activity in the lesser hours. In those hours the Market Maker is free to move the market and collect orders for the order flow process.
Its quite apparent that you didn't take the time to read the entire thread because that exact issue is addressed many times throughout the thread.

You say that you have conducted "statistical analysis" on VSA. Let's see it. What results did you get.

You say that you are a successful trader with 80% winners, yet you have all this time to come to a thread in a forum to expose a system...
  • #69
  • Apr 18, 2010 8:29pm Apr 18, 2010 8:29pm
The one high lighted statement below clearly shows you have no clue what vsa is.

VSA is not about one candle it is about a string of candles chained together , a reversal bottom confirmed by a test is an awesome bottom.

After seeing weakness as posted on my charts on Gu friday I am still short. Think that this gap is any surprise to me.

also think last weekend was a surprise NOT at all. These gaps were formulated well before they happened , reading vsa is like reading a book.

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...69#post3625269

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...65#post3625365

call it luck ? nah I will throw these things out all the time.

VSA IS NOT ABOUT ONE REVERSAL CANDLE. UNDERSTAND WHAT VSA IS AND THEN SLAG IT OFF.

I use tradeguider as a tool.... allows me to cast eyes on many different things at once looking for vsa set ups and high / low volume candles. It is an awesome tool is you like vsa.

Your orderflow is just another way of trading. I owuld love to see your 80% results and why you took the trades.

So far I have not seen ,,,, one .. err.... oh I know .. CHART OR SET UP from you. Now this would be awesome .... one system versus another. Guess what we will likely find they both work 80% of the time. There are a million ways to trade this market. As long as we make money and have confidence in the system we use we cares if it vsa , voodoo , order flows , or clipping a coin .







Quoting asgard2
Someone asked why this thread was started and you have supplied the answer.

A tick is a function of price and not the other way around.

The trade guider system, seeks to confuse the uninitiated with terminology unfamiliar to forex users.

Although I believe the idea of VSA is fundamentally sound there are some problems with the trade guider version in regards to its application in forex.

[b]Example, relative volume in forex needs to consider market hours because you are not getting the same activity in the lesser hours. In those hours the Market...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #70
  • Apr 18, 2010 8:32pm Apr 18, 2010 8:32pm
Quoting OneSport3
Its quite apparent that you didn't take the time to read the entire thread because that exact issue is addressed many times throughout the thread.

You say that you have conducted "statistical analysis" on VSA. Let's see it. What results did you get.

you have all this time to come to a thread in a forum to expose a system...
What thread and what issue are you talking about?

I already posted my results and everyone is free to ignore, validate or invalidate them.

If you have not validated or invalidated them and have nothing logical to offer what are you asking?

Does exposure of faults bother you?
If faults remain hidden on purpose, then what does that say about the system or its future success?

To my mind, if I had a system I was selling and it had obvious faults that would, with out a doubt affect the profitability of my customers, then I would think they would need rectifying.

I don't think I would be attempting to shutdown the revelation of those faults by sending a small army of followers to intimidate the messenger.

Luckily we still live in a free world and information and ideas can be freely exchanged.

If anyone can come up with any valid argument for the inclusion of volume the way it is promoted by trade guider for forex, I would be so pleased to here it. So far there has been nothing!
  • #71
  • Apr 18, 2010 8:42pm Apr 18, 2010 8:42pm
Proof is in the pudding as the old saying goes

Of all your 160 odd posts to date I can see you are a very smart guy. Within those 160 odd posts I do not see one trade set up .

Lets see what you got under that hood. How about instead of debating a system that you clearly do not understand and have no interest to understand post a few charts with your system and the reasons why .

Teach others what you know. Pass a legacy to other traders in the future as Shamus , Myself and others have done in the VSA thread.
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #72
  • Apr 18, 2010 8:55pm Apr 18, 2010 8:55pm
Quoting asgard2
What thread and what issue are you talking about?
What thread am I talking about? Shamus' Trade Using VSA thread where you posted before starting this thread.

Quoting asgard2
I already posted my results and everyone is free to ignore, validate or invalidate them.
I've looked through all of your 189 posts and no where do you present your results or findings. How do you expect anyone to validate your findings when you haven't posted them.

Quoting asgard2
Does exposure of faults bother you?
If faults remain hidden on purpose, then what does that say about the system or its future success?
No, the exposure of faults does not bother me because I have nothing to do with VSA or the TradeGuider software. I've never used it nor do I plan on using it. VSA is a very interesting methodology and there are folks that are very successful using it i.e. Malcomb, Shamus, Dr. G.


Quoting asgard2
If anyone can come up with any valid argument for the inclusion of volume the way it is promoted by trade guider for forex, I would be so pleased to here it. So far there has been nothing!
You have provided nothing but blind, uninformed criticism. You don't provide your findings or any specific examples of that faults of VSA.
  • #73
  • Apr 18, 2010 9:15pm Apr 18, 2010 9:15pm
Quoting malcolmb14
The one high lighted statement below clearly shows you have no clue what vsa is.

VSA is not about one candle it is about a string of candles chained together , a reversal bottom confirmed by a test is an awesome bottom.
Malcolm you do realise it is not VSA I am doubting here?

You do understand that there are other VSA methods that are more suitable for and designed for forex, right?


Quoting malcolmb14

After seeing weakness as posted on my charts on Gu friday I am still short. Think that this gap is any surprise to me.
Without being patronizing and apologies if it looks that way, I think a blind man could have seen that coming.


Quoting malcolmb14
VSA IS NOT ABOUT ONE REVERSAL CANDLE.
Well neither are candlestick patterns are they? Like it or not those patterns are regular candlestick patterns

Quoting malcolmb14
Your orderflow is just another way of trading.
Now, you show you have not understood forex volume at all because it is order flow. The interpretation of order flow that we are seeking in order to clarify the relevance of a volume figure at any given time.

Quote
So far I have not seen ,,,, one .. err.... oh I know .. CHART OR SET UP from you.
Buddy, I am not here to teach anyone what I do or do not think I know. The subject being discussed here is about the inclusion of volume as an indicator in the Trade Guider system as it applies to forex.

If you want to read the books that I used for the foundation of my trading then.. I will send you a list via pm. Any mug can post a chart after the event and say well I would have done this here because.....

You sound like a nice person... try not to get caught up so much in the folly and think it out for yourself.
If you have any question in you mind, the internet is the best library you will find. Track down the answer until it makes some sense. If it makes no sense or you can see weakness in the logic, then have some doubts!

Example, find me a low volume bar in the London session that you could have picked prior to the next volume bar.
  • #74
  • Apr 18, 2010 9:47pm Apr 18, 2010 9:47pm
Quoting OneSport3
What thread am I talking about? Shamus' Trade Using VSA thread where you posted before starting this thread.


You have provided nothing but blind, uninformed criticism. You don't provide your findings or any specific examples of that faults of VSA.
OMG.. I am having some problems here with the comprehension level of some of those reading this.

OK.. Let me try and start again and appeal to the logic of the no sayers.

Volume in forex has a certain relevance to session times. You will see and you do not need me to prove this. You only need to look at volume bars at zero hour compared to 2pm GMT. The same thing occurs every day. It is just a simple fact!

That is something you can check without doing any work.

While you accuse me of not offering any (something) in support of my skepticism, neither have you presented any support that failure to address this issue is irrelevant to the overall profitability of the trade guider system.

The charts don't lie they say, of course not, it is never on the chart until after the event. Then we can all see what happened.

I could post some pics but you could also do the work.. I am not trying to talk you out of doing or trading the way you want to. I say go for it if that makes you happy.

I am also saying to those who have parted with their money, if it didn't work it/is may not be and probably is not your fault.

As for my statistical analysis, I suggest you do your own like all good traders should. I gave you my findings and you have not attempted to debunk them.

It never pays to rely on anything anyone tells you when you are laying your money on the line. That includes me! I could have a motive, you don't know that I don't..so start questioning and that is all I am saying!
  • #75
  • Apr 18, 2010 10:15pm Apr 18, 2010 10:15pm
pointless ...

you seem to talk in circle , do not want to show us charts , why even bother posting ? How can we debate when I have nothing to debates against. YOur question of does vsa work is yes it does for those that understand it.

So far all your posts are about programming an EA or knocking the merits of vsa.

Once you post a few charts and the logic behind them then I will debate with you more.

Of course volume in forex is order flow. But the reaction of the candle and volume is key. I think you even mentioned this lol.

Did you know vsa stands for volume spread analysis? The volume and the spread of the candle and subsequent ones is what VSA is based on. Is there anything different from order flow and candles as you are talking about ?

The wheel is round ... no.. a triangular one will not work even if you try and re - invent the wheel.

I wish you luck in the future , but will leave you with this. I will pit vsa against what ever it is you do any day. I believe in it and it makes me money day in day out.



Quoting asgard2
Malcolm you do realise it is not VSA I am doubting here?

You do understand that there are other VSA methods that are more suitable for and designed for forex, right?...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #76
  • Apr 18, 2010 10:24pm Apr 18, 2010 10:24pm
what does that last line mean ?

Again is illustrates your lack of understanding of vsa

remember this chart and my skype conversation with my client that I posted here ? sell at 1.5440 ? right now that trade is 190 pip



Quoting asgard2
Malcolm you do realise it is not VSA I am doubting here?

You do understand that there are other VSA methods that are more suitable for and designed for forex, right?...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #77
  • Edited 10:53pm Apr 18, 2010 10:39pm | Edited 10:53pm
Quoting malcolmb14
pointless ...

you seem to talk in circle, do not want to show us charts , why even bother posting ?
Do you think everyone exists on this earth to be at your beck and call or that other people have some obligation to save you from yourself?

I will not and feel no need to teach you to trade. I think if you were not being less than energetic then you would validated some of this logic for yourself. You would not be relying on a magic system to tell you when to make or when not make a trade.

Now just a wee bit more logic; if the trade guider system is so profitable and you are making so much money with it, why are you hounding me for trading advice?

If you cannot see any value in what I am saying.. feel free to ignore it and I promise I will have no regrets.

Edit:// did you ever find that low volume bar in the London session?
  • #78
  • Apr 18, 2010 10:53pm Apr 18, 2010 10:53pm
Ah skirting the questions again.

If you think vsa is so bad ... then lets see what you do . Post some charts and show us how good you are. I am throwing this down as a challenge NOT to take your trades with all respect my posts prove that I do not need help from you . To be honest I have seen no proof yet that you can trade. (again with all respect)

I am hounding you as your arguments make NO sense.

If you bothered to look at any of posts you would see
1) I do not need advice from you as I have called trades miles before they happened.
2) I use eignal with tradeguider as merely a tool. It only cost me one small 50 pip trade anyway .

You seem set on ripping apart something that others have put time and value into and this bothers me. There are a million ways to trade.

Here is TG shot today showing us the sell in asia , with the red diamonds. Even a newbie would have a hard time screwing that up.

Tell you what if you develop something nearly as good as the tradeguider team has done I will be impressed. It may not work for you but it work for others. So why not just shut this thread down and stop knocking others work.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu tg.jpg Size: 192 KB




Quoting asgard2
Do you think everyone exists on this earth to be at your beck and call or that other people have some obligation to save you from yourself?

I will not and feel no need to teach you to trade. I think if you were not being less than energetic then you would validated some of this logic for yourself. You would not be relying on a magic system to tell you when to make or when not make a trade.

Now just a wee bit more logic; if the trade guider system is so profitable and you are making so much money with it, why are you hounding me for trading advic

If...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #79
  • Apr 18, 2010 10:59pm Apr 18, 2010 10:59pm
Seems like this idiot could not post the right chart lol

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: gu tg.jpg Size: 200 KB






Quoting malcolmb14
Ah skirting the questions again.

If you think vsa is so bad ... then lets see what you do . Post some charts and show us how good you are. I am throwing this down as a challenge NOT to take your trades with all respect my posts prove that I do not need help from you . to be honest I have seen no proof yet that you can trade. (again with all respect)

I am hounding you as your arguments make NO sense.

If you bothered to look at any of posts you would see
1) I do not need advice from you as I have called trades miles before they happened.
2)...
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #80
  • Apr 18, 2010 11:12pm Apr 18, 2010 11:12pm
without having read the vsa thread....

the traderguider team..would be smart starting a free thread here on FF
on VSA..

when/or if a lots of those who looks for a system..follow the thread..and watch that some seems to profit by this..even they claim they dont use traderguider.... and they them selves cant get it to work/profit..
sooner or later they gonna go to traderguider site and buy..what they think will make a difference....

damn pretty smart method to fool people to buy a system...

anyway...it could easyli be that way...lol

and ps.. Malcomb..carme down..you start sound like one of those Gurus..
why defend it so much ?? why care when you make lots of cash
StopLoss is for none belivers... Trust the Gurus..
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