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Trade Guider System VSA, fact or fiction?

  • #41
  • Apr 17, 2010 2:55pm Apr 17, 2010 2:55pm
actually, i don't see the purpose of this thread.

is it to show people that vsa is nonsense
or
is it to show people that you asgard have found the secret about vsa.

why don't you let people trade vsa and take care of your own trading?

so what is the point?
meine augen sind die sterne
  • #42
  • Apr 17, 2010 5:00pm Apr 17, 2010 5:00pm
Quoting asgard2
Ok here is a chart posted elsewhere on this forum...
First off, I'd like to say that there is nothing wrong with being a critique. In fact I always see it as a good thing. BUT to criticize substantially you must properly understand the principles/topic being criticized to effectively make your point (if at all there's any). Apparently, it looks like "you simply still don't get it" because you don't have a clearly stated or valid argument for people to discuss on/about.

When I initially saw your rants on the Shamus' VSA thread from which you were banned, I laughed within me. Seeing your new thread only makes me smile. I didn't plan on saying anything more but on a second thought I decided to share my opinion.

From the way you speak and present your argument, I can only assume that:

1. It's either you have not yet understood how to trade using VSA profitably or;

2. You are a spy who is trying to cause confusion so that newbie traders trying to learn/understand VSA will lose their confidence.

Anyway, whichever of the above holds true, understand that it's only an assumption.

Lastly, referring to you chart:

You talk about bar 1, bar 2 and how to know if that's not bar 2 or whatever and blah.

For your information, these moves are designed to create panic to the weak holder. If you really understand the spread analysis in relation to volume and where the bar closes you would see that after your bar 1 (i.e even before the other bars appeared), you should be looking for confirmation and not just entering blindly. And of course, this is where experience comes in. It is a method.


Quoting malcolmb14
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=4373

now for chart

still maintain the reason you do not get it ... is cause you just do not get it! lol

Attachment
No need to bother explaining further as it is often said that "Common sense is not common".. Sad but true.

Quoting aserbfx
actually, i don't see the purpose of this thread.

is it to show people that vsa is nonsense
or
is it to show people that you asgard have found the secret about vsa.

why don't you let people trade vsa and take care of your own trading?

so what is the point?
Pointless.... so far.
  • #43
  • Apr 17, 2010 6:18pm Apr 17, 2010 6:18pm
Quoting wh1zz0

From the way you speak and present your argument, I can only assume that:

1. It's either you have not yet understood how to trade using VSA profitably or;

2. You are a spy who is trying to cause confusion so that newbie traders trying to learn/understand VSA will lose their confidence.

Anyway, whichever of the above holds true, understand that it's only an assumption.
Buwahahahahahahaha.

This is amusing.

Your assumptions:

1. Goes under the assumption that VSA must be used to be profitable in market.

2. Is just lunatic rant. Yes there is a mass conspiracy against all of the VSA traders and trading system by those that choose to prosper from the market without using VSA.

It is sad, because you had started off so well. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat and the validity of this thread is only for those who choose to visit and take something away, much the same as all other threads.

It doesn't have to prove merit to those who prosper from the VSA system but should serve as the "other side of the coin", to those who don't understand and perhaps a little reassurance that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't an oncoming train.

Maybe the tread was started out of spite, perhaps there is more backing behind it, sure seems to to have drawn a little attention for a day when there is no Volume, no spread, no trading....

Now, that being said, I work with Mal on a daily basis where his analysis through VSA shows definite merit and I am slowly learning to apply some of the methodology to my current trading, but this isn't to say that I could not prosper without.

Any tool in the wrong hands may not serve to its full capacity or ability, same could be said with any trade methodology.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #44
  • Apr 17, 2010 6:39pm Apr 17, 2010 6:39pm
Quoting Magix
Buwahahahahahahaha.

This is amusing.

Your assumptions:

1....

This is why many people fail examinations. They fail to read properly.

I never said anything about VSA being the only way to trade.

For instance, I am a discretionary trader. I trade long term, and Intra-day. And there's a way I combine methodologies into something perfect for myself which of course works very well for me.

However, It would be foolish to say or think that only trading long term or Intra-day or a combination of the two (like me) is the only way. The same way too it would be foolish to say fundamentalist are better than chartists or what ever. This is not my point.

Just in case you had some sand in your eye or were feeling sleepy before posting, let me re-state (again) clearly that I have never, on this thread or anywhere else on the internet, stated that there is ONLY one way to trade. Nope. Far from it. The issue here is that the thread starter hasn't presented a valid argument as I have stated before. If he does, let him present it and people can have a healthy debate based on research and facts.

Simple...

So was that so hard to understand...?? LOL
  • #45
  • Apr 17, 2010 6:50pm Apr 17, 2010 6:50pm
Quoting wh1zz0
Just in case you had some sand in your eye or were feeling sleepy before posting, let me re-state (again) clearly that I have never, on this thread or anywhere else on the internet, stated that there is ONLY one way to trade. Nope. Far from it. The issue here is that the thread starter hasn't presented a valid argument as I have stated before. If he does, let him present it and people can have a healthy debate based on research and facts.

Simple...

So was that so hard to understand...?? LOL

Your attempts at humor and mockery fail even greater then when you were trying to make a point.

Perhaps if one were to take a moment to read the name of the thread first, it might seem to pose as a question, not an absolute.

As the thread starter has posed this as a question and has initiated it under the "Trading Discussion", and has posed a question with what he feels is a valid point, adding a little information from his own personal studies, it would seem to me that your response is that of wanting to grand stand.

Your previous post was of much the same arrogance.

Again, I am not for nor against VSA. Take it or leave it, I think my real point is that you came out with a bit of a valid argument and in end, just came off sounding a little pathetic.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #46
  • Apr 17, 2010 6:54pm Apr 17, 2010 6:54pm
Quoting Magix

Your attempts at humor and mockery fail even greater then when you were trying to make a point.

Perhaps if one were to take a moment to read the name of the thread first, it might seem to pose as a question, not an absolute.

As the thread starter has posed this as a question and has initiated it under the "Trading Discussion", and has posed a question with what he feels is a valid point, adding a little information from his own personal studies, it would seem to me that your response is that of wanting to grand stand.

Your previous post...

... Whatever..
  • #47
  • Edited 9:57pm Apr 17, 2010 7:06pm | Edited 9:57pm
Quoting Magix

Buwahahahahahahaha.

2. Is just lunatic rant. Yes there is a mass conspiracy against all of the VSA traders and trading system by those that choose to prosper from the market without using VSA.
I was unbeknown to me that I was entering a hornets nest when I mentioned my reservations about applying the trade guider VSA style to forex.

I had no idea, that I would bring down the wrath of anyone by stating an opinion. The longer it continues the more I think something stronger is behind it.


I do not believe I ever said VSA was a bad thing. I think I said this.

Quote
I don't think we are in any disagreement what VSA is, simply how forex did not exist at the time and possibly things from the 70's could be changed to make it a better fit for forex in 2010.
Actually, you guys already have your own thread, where the people that are not open to making the system a better fit for 2010 can reign supreme in your own right.

It would be manners to let someone else have a point of view without a barrage of unfounded and factually unsupported criticism.

This is actually not aimed at you post.. sorry if it appears that way.. I am just pretty over it all.
  • #48
  • Apr 17, 2010 7:19pm Apr 17, 2010 7:19pm
Quoting asgard2
I don't think we are in any disagreement what VSA is, simply how forex did not exist at the time and possibly things from the 70's could be changed to make it a better fit for forex in 2010.



Then if this is the case don't you think something like "Improving the VSA Method" would be a better topic name and even be more "eye-catchy" thus bringing more people to the thread for more contribution and healthy participation?

Just my opinion.
  • #49
  • Apr 17, 2010 7:21pm Apr 17, 2010 7:21pm
Quoting asgard2
I was unbeknown to me that I was entering a hornets next when I mentioned my reservations about applying the trade guider VSA style to forex.

I had no idea, that I would bring down the wrath of anyone by stating an opinion. The longer it continues the more I think something stronger is behind it.
FWIW...

My words aren't necessarily that of support for you, but I will back your right to openly state your opinion, this is a public forum.

There are a lot of great trades made under several different systems and trade methodologies, but you have specifically drawn a line in the sand with the VSA traders.

I commend Shamus on his continued efforts. I really don't know much of the VSA background as I am pretty sure I am just not patient enough or smart enough to make it through that thread, and believe me, I have tried.

I am only under assumption that Shamus has a big part of that, he seemingly is the thread starter.

I am a lot lazy, had a trade system thread of my own, until I just flat out couldn't be bothered to maintain it. Not that it wasn't profitable, nor trade-able, nor teachable, just because I really didn't care to continue.

The VSA thread offers a lot of posters, support and an IRC chat for others. This is a pretty good thing.

Again, I work with a VSA trader daily, using the VSA methods does pose some merit, but like the other zillion methods of trading can be taken or left at the readers discretion.

I was amused by the poster and well, out of sheer boredom chose to reply.

Perhaps, if you didn't wanna pick a fight, you shouldn't have chosen this as a topic.

Bad news sells.

As you move your way through the pages of FF, hopefully you will find a place in working with traders on your profitable trade system, instead of attacking others you may not agree with.

Just my dos centavos.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #50
  • Apr 17, 2010 7:58pm Apr 17, 2010 7:58pm
Quoting Magix
FWIW...

As you move your way through the pages of FF, hopefully you will find a place in working with traders on your profitable trade system, instead of attacking others you may not agree with.
Hmm.. I loath to let this go. I think the situation is the reverse, I have not attacked anyone, quite the opposite.

I am pleased for traders, trading this system if they make money. After all that is the point to it all.

I can say and do say, using statistical analysis, the system fails as it is promoted in the Forex environment.

It does not have enough merit in its current form to promote it as a Forex system to uninitiated traders without first addressing some of the issues.

In my opinion, traders solely relying on this system are doomed to fail.. the system is so designed they will blame themselves for being unable to identify the patterns.

The irony is, those traders posting here in blind support of the s Trade Guider System, will be the ones who are destined to suffer the greatest!

With some intelligent input, the system could have been improved and may have been a valuable addition to current trading strategies.

Trading requires mental stability in the form of emotional control.

It is nearly impossible to become a good trader unless you have the ability to evaluate a situation clearly and know when you are being fooled.
  • #51
  • Apr 17, 2010 8:42pm Apr 17, 2010 8:42pm
Quoting Sim
Man another typical thread.. an FF member centred on intellectually discussing certain obvious cracks in a methodology being attacked by the narrow-minded lot bent on repairing their egos..

Good posts asgard, all true.. also agree with the last chart
Thank you Sim, it says something about a person's character when they can go against stong popular opinion to express an alternate view.

Appreciate your comments!
  • #52
  • Apr 17, 2010 8:48pm Apr 17, 2010 8:48pm
Quoting asgard2
Hmm.. I loath to let this go. I think the situation is the reverse, I have not attacked anyone, quite the opposite.

I am pleased for traders, trading this system if they make money. After all that is the point to it all.

I can say and do say, using statistical analysis, the system fails as it is promoted in the Forex environment.

It does not have enough merit in its current form to promote it as a Forex system to uninitiated traders without first addressing some of the issues.

In my opinion, traders solely relying on this system are...

Ohhhh, and now the shame is on you.

TSK TSK TSK.

1. Show me any system that does not fail under statistical analysis at some point.
2. Especially if you do not first of understand the system.
3. Anybody who follows any system blind will suffer the same fate as following no system at all.
4. Though you may believe it has no merit, the thread itself boasts more pages then you show individual posts, ergo, though you may make judgment and entitled to your opinion, there are several others who can, have and will prosper using the VSA in part or whole who will disagree with you.
5. Has been addressed, instead of this thread, you could have or maybe even should have started a, "New and Improved VSA" tread.
6. "It is nearly impossible to become a good trader unless you have the ability to evaluate a situation clearly and know when you are being fooled.", now you have taken what little merit you had in questioning the VSA thread and turned it into a conspiracy theory, like Shamus and the VSA'ers are out to create suckers out of all so they can prosper from your loss.

I am under the impression that you come from a world of pump and dump stock days, and might be trying to save masses, that simply don't need your efforts. Your ignorance and now arrogance are beginning to come off a little soap boxish.

As amused as I started when reading through the thread, is as unenthusiastic as I now am to continue on with this tripe.

I bid you good trading sir.

Don't worry about stamping a ban on my ass as I make the egress, I promise you in good faith that, I cannot be bothered to re-enter this arena.
Money Can't Buy Happiness. Poverty Can't Buy SHIT! You Choose!
  • #53
  • Apr 17, 2010 9:23pm Apr 17, 2010 9:23pm
Hi Asgard2
Thanks for posting your findings, I am curious for what period of time you tested? I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction to learn more about order flow.

I'll convey my thanks in advance.
  • #54
  • Apr 17, 2010 9:28pm Apr 17, 2010 9:28pm
Quoting Magix
Don't worry about stamping a ban on my ass as I make the egress, I promise you in good faith that, I cannot be bothered to re-enter this arena.
Lots of things work under statistical analysis, that is why it is done.
Certainly it is done in forex and one example is candlesticks.

It is not my style to counter the tide of popular opinion with banning's. Feel free to say the things you think make sense.

If they make sense, your point of view will be the eventual point of view of the only people that matter.

Personally, I don't care what anyone believes but to curtail alternate views or questions of others in order to "profit or control", deny's the fundamental rights of the free world.

On a different note and I don't meant to be rude but something you might find worth considering. Your posts are raising the issue that you are attempting to curtail to the top of the thread list.

Given that is the case, it may be more prudent if you would attempt to back your belief on the topic at hand with some evidence of some sort.

It does not have to be hard evidence but even a view that has some supporting logic would be great.

Thanks, A
  • #55
  • Edited 9:43pm Apr 17, 2010 9:32pm | Edited 9:43pm
Quoting Hal2611
Hi Asgard2
Thanks for posting your findings, I am curious for what period of time you tested? I was wondering if you could point me in the right direction to learn more about order flow.

I'll convey my thanks in advance.

Hi Mate.. The time tested was the previous 2 years on the GBP/USD and the reason I tested this pair is because it is my favorite to trade.

I tested all time frames in metatrader except weekly and monthly. I have several reasons why I believe the results are consistent with logical thinking.

If you like or anyone is interested. I will go into it more deeply.


There is a thread here that is about order flow and it is excellent.

Here is one and there is another that I will find, that I thought contained some good information

I will post back here as soon as I find it. Here it is

Also on the first page when I had an idea about the possible filling of orders on tick value.. I am writing a small program to test that theory.

I believe it may have possibilities that could be beneficial.

Here is my idea and I believe it makes sense.. If anyone wants the code to put in an EA for filtering, closing or any other reason. Please ask. I will be happy to supply it if I think it really does work.

Quoting asgard2
Hypothesis;

when a market maker or anyone on the wholesale side of the equation receives orders, either buy or sell, all the lot sizes are different. If a large order comes in at a quoted price, for a few ticks they must fill that order with smaller orders.

I always wondered (until lately) why the volume bars on the metatrader platform were green on both a red or green candle and vise versa.

It dawned on me, (sometimes I am slow)... that when the ask or bid changes price in isolation from its counter part it is counted as volume in that direction.

For...
  • #56
  • Apr 18, 2010 3:17am Apr 18, 2010 3:17am
Quoting asgard2
The irony is, those traders posting here in blind support of the s Trade Guider System, will be the ones who are destined to suffer the greatest!
tell me about it..
  • #57
  • Apr 18, 2010 6:36am Apr 18, 2010 6:36am
Here is the link to a book related to statistical analysis on candlestick patterns.

I thought some people here might like to check it out.
  • #58
  • Apr 18, 2010 8:07am Apr 18, 2010 8:07am
Quoting asgard2
Here is the link to a book related to statistical analysis on candlestick patterns.

I thought some people here might like to check it out.

What do candlestick patterns have to do with VSA?

VSA uses the high, low and close only, nothing to do with candlesticks.

Asgard2, what is the point of this thread? you stated in an earlier post you are a full time trader, you have your own method of trading with 80% winners so why start a thread doubting a method which other people trade with success, not a criticism...just curious.
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
  • #59
  • Apr 18, 2010 8:49am Apr 18, 2010 8:49am
Quoting gez40
What do candlestick patterns have to do with VSA?

VSA uses the high, low and close only, nothing to do with candlesticks.

Asgard2, what is the point of this thread? you stated in an earlier post you are a full time trader, you have your own method of trading with 80% winners so why start a thread doubting a method which other people trade with success, not a criticism...just curious.

I think he started this post for a good debate.

I trade vsa , I am an advocate of tradeguider , even if only lease it for 1st few months of learning vsa and i make money .

One thing aout any system though is to know market conditions ... ranging or trending. last week gu and eu were ranging. Trade the range using stopping volume and uptrust / supp;ly coming in

Tradeguider I have running on one screen as I love the watch list that lest me cast a casual eye over gold , es , gu and eu on 5 different time frames for vsa set ups or high volume candle.

Often i see in strong down trends , just cause range is done for day we see volume coming in , vsa newbies hoping in longs on one candle and then wondering why they get thier arse nailed on next session , not waiting for confirmation. In trending market on a 4 hour look for sell set ups or buy set ups depending on direction of trend
Blogging daily now at www.volume.zone
  • #60
  • Apr 18, 2010 9:46am Apr 18, 2010 9:46am
Quoting malcolmb14
I think he started this post for a good debate.

I trade vsa , I am an advocate of tradeguider , even if only lease it for 1st few months of learning vsa and i make money .

One thing aout any system though is to know market conditions ... ranging or trending. last week gu and eu were ranging. Trade the range using stopping volume and uptrust / supp;ly coming in

Tradeguider I have running on one screen as I love the watch list that lest me cast a casual eye over gold , es , gu and eu on 5 different time frames for vsa set ups or high volume...

So his beef is with Tradeguider and not the concept of VSA? no mention of www.hawkeyetraders.com
Seek not to change the world; seek only to change your mind about the world
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