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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #5,121
  • Apr 16, 2010 5:05am Apr 16, 2010 5:05am
Quoting kennyhubbard
All of this despite the fact that at least 1 trade hit TP and was there for over 2 minutes.

Do you have any comment to make on this. When do you suppose it will be safe to trade live with MB again?

I have another email from a different representative who tells me that execution errors are so rare that he can count them on one hand.....fair enough, but consider this.......

As a scalper, I give a generous portion of my profit to MB Trading in the form of commission(circa 50%)...
Unfortunatelly it's not rare. I've allready written about this some weeks ago (look at my prevoius post). This week errors happened again with MT4 platform on 2 MBT accounts at the same time! Support tickets doesn't help, they are marked resolved, but problem still exists. I don't know what else I can do . I have MT4 accounts with 2 other brokers, no single problem yet with order execution for more than 1 year.
Previously I was writing strategy with MBT SDK. It was the same. From time to time stuck orders. It looks like with MBT you can't leave your automated system, it has to be manual.
Justin, can someone reputable take care of this problem with orders getting stuck?

Regards
  • #5,122
  • Apr 16, 2010 8:41am Apr 16, 2010 8:41am
Quoting pavikogm
Support tickets doesn't help, they are marked resolved, but problem still exists. ... I have MT4 accounts with 2 other broke rs, no single problem yet with order execution for more than 1 year.
...It was the same. From time to time stuck orders. It looks like with MBT you can't leave your automated system, it has to be manual.
From what I read: Oanda's platform crashes regularly, most of the bucketshops trade against a group of smaller-lot people that includes you, or, now, MBT gets "stuck orders". They'll tell you it doesn't happen, unless you corner them when it -- repeatedly -- does.

I wish I could blame it on my bad trading (of a few years ago or my future) or being on demo. One only has to give a reasonably honest broke r $100k and they'll stop the nonsense....
  • #5,123
  • Apr 16, 2010 8:57am Apr 16, 2010 8:57am
Using Navigator, how do I place a stop order with a take profit and a trailing stop. The TP and trailing stop should be OCO.

Thanks,

Jim
  • #5,124
  • Apr 16, 2010 9:54am Apr 16, 2010 9:54am
I've had one trade problem with MB's MT4. Couldn't change the order or close it on my end. Called in and they closed it immediately, no issues. That was about two Sundays ago.
  • #5,125
  • Apr 16, 2010 10:27am Apr 16, 2010 10:27am
Quoting jleblang
Are you asking if MT4 has Level 2 pricing? If so, no that is only available in our Desktop platforms.

So what seperates your MT4 from IBFX, FXDD, Alpari, anyone else that you so heavilly sell it as ECN.

ECN - electronic communication network - is such a broad term. Can you expand on this a bit more?
  • #5,126
  • Apr 16, 2010 10:32am Apr 16, 2010 10:32am
Quoting ForexSooth
So what seperates your MT4 from IBFX, FXDD, Alpari, anyone else that you so heavilly sell it as ECN.

ECN - electronic communication network - is such a broad term. Can you expand on this a bit more?
Pretty sure they already have many times on this thread.
  • #5,127
  • Apr 16, 2010 10:35am Apr 16, 2010 10:35am
Quoting wannatradefx
Pretty sure they already have many times on this thread.
Sorry - I took the lazy route instead of going through all 300+ pages.
  • #5,128
  • Edited 11:03am Apr 16, 2010 11:03am | Edited 11:03am
Quoting ForexSooth
Sorry - I took the lazy route instead of going through all 300+ pages.
Short version:

Unlike any "ECN" broker that is just electronic, MB Trading actually has multiple banks in their system, they aggregate the quotes, hold everyone equal and anonymous, have a proprietary routing system that determines if you order is marketable and where to send for the fastest execution, immediately display any limit order that isn't marketable into the quote for anyone else to see and hit, and make their money only from charging you a fee for the above services provided. There's a lot of technology pieces there, but it takes away all of the deal desk games, which I'm not sure any other broker can say with 100% accuracy. With MB, your orders are either being routed to an outside destination or hitting another customer of the firm. They don't have a desk, and the NFA rates them as a pure ECN/STP broker from that perspective in terms of their net capital requirements.

I'm sure Justin could add more, but you can also find more in the pages on this thread.
FXChant Singing the World of Forex
  • #5,129
  • Apr 16, 2010 11:05am Apr 16, 2010 11:05am
Thanks. You're basing the fact that the NFA rates them as true STP/ECN on their net cap figures. How do you figure?

I thought net cap requirement was $20mil + some % of client deposits. Perhaps theirs is only $20mil because they dont have that much in deposits. Is there some speiifc STP/ECN net requirement provision Im not aware of?
  • #5,130
  • Apr 16, 2010 4:44pm Apr 16, 2010 4:44pm
Quoting kennyhubbard
Justin,

I believe in giving credit where it is due and by and large I have found MB Trading to be pretty good. Unfortunately, there has been an uptick in execution problems of late on your MT4 platform. I have a friend who lost something like 7% of his account while I managed to lose only 2% through 4 problems in the last month.

I am lead to believe that there are no refunds if a trade does not execute, if you are not present to call in to the trade desk. I quote from an email from one of your representatives :-

[font=Consolas][size=3][i][b]I...
Kenny,

I apologize for the issues that you experienced with your order last night. While I understand that any loss from technology is never acceptable, I’m not sure if statements like “When do you suppose it will be safe to trade live with MB again?” might be a little overblown. I see that you edited your original post to tone it down.

We did have two brief incidents this week (at rollover when all of the banks go down and up while we settle trades and backup files globally). In both cases, certain orders routed to certain destinations were interrupted. This means that subsequent attempts to modify or close these orders in MetaTrader (no Desktop or Navigator accounts were affected) were rejected as the system couldn’t grab back the initial order. This happened to trades that the customer (or their EA) tried to adjust while the problem lasted, and it only happened to trades at one destination. Can you confirm for me whether you had other trades in place at the time and whether this happened to all of them? It seems that even those affected, it was only on certain trades.

You noted that you have four hours of logs showing errors while the EA tried to close the trade. Yes, the situation was such that the orders that were affected were not fixable in an automated fashion. We needed to close them out manually due to the situation. We did not have a problem for 4 hours. In fact, it lasted less than 20 minutes. But once the order was affected, no amount of change or close requests could close it.

This is an unfortunate situation and not something we have experienced in the recent past. Unfortunately, the technology situation is such that routing orders is not all in our control and requires that many systems outside of ours behave properly. Out of the last 365 days, we count only 6 where a reconnect issue with a bank occurred, and several of those incidents affected almost no orders.

Again, we certainly apologize for any issues. Our goal is to maintain and keep stable one of the most complex FX execution systems out there. If we were just a desk, then your loss would be our gain. We are not a desk. We make money by routing your trades through this complex system, and in the rare cases where problems occur, whether we would give a credit for the error would depend on whether the issue was fully in our control or not. In these cases, it was not. In other cases, it has been. If you have a trade that was in the system and accepted and hit your T/P or S/L, please make sure that we see the details of that trade. But any attempts to adjust or close the specific trades that were affected this week could not work. Those trades had to be closed manually.

While we obviously don’t want to have any issues in our system, I can tell you that the two key moments are Sunday start-up and then Monday through Thursday at 5 pm EST maintenance/rollover. Those are the points where 90% of the few problems that we have had occur because so many systems coming up and down together is the most likely point for something to go wrong. If possible, it is best to have a quick look just after that time to make sure your EAs are working.

Outside of these two specific incidents which affected a small group of orders being adjusted at the time, we have not had any significant problems for a long time and I would not say that there is anything new that would throw into doubt our ability to operate at a level that we have functioned. These issues weren’t do to updates or anything specific on our end that should cause concern.
  • #5,131
  • Apr 16, 2010 5:31pm Apr 16, 2010 5:31pm
Quoting jleblang
We did have two brief incidents this week (at rollover when all of the banks go down and up while we settle trades and backup files globally). In both cases, certain orders routed to certain destinations were interrupted. This means that subsequent attempts to modify or close these orders in MetaTrader (no Desktop or Navigator accounts were affected) were rejected as the system couldn’t grab back the initial order. This happened to trades that the customer (or their EA) tried to adjust while the problem lasted, and it only happened to trades at...
Finally a true explanation of what's going up. Thank you for clarifying this.
Quoting jleblang
Can you confirm for me whether you had other trades in place at the time and whether this happened to all of them? It seems that even those affected, it was only on certain trades.
I had other opened orders and it only affected 2 trades - one on each account. Other orders where ok.

Quote
Unfortunately, the technology situation is such that routing orders is not all in our control and requires that many systems outside of ours behave properly. Out of the last 365 days, we count only 6 where a reconnect issue with a bank occurred, and several of those incidents affected almost no orders.
As I understand the routing can be not fully controlled by MBT, maybe there is possibilty of "repairing" those stuck orders automatically - probalby the procedure is done mechanically by dealing desk when someone call it. Some script could search after maintenance/rollover period for bad orders and "repair" them.... ?

Regards
  • #5,132
  • Apr 16, 2010 8:08pm Apr 16, 2010 8:08pm
Hey Justin.. have margin requirements changed lately? I got an email saying that there is now a 1% margin requirement, but I thought this was the case earlier as well?

Also, is maintenance margin still 50% of initial? As in, say I have $100 and I buy 10K USD/JPY. If my account value falls below $50, my position gets liquidated automatically?
  • #5,133
  • Apr 16, 2010 8:48pm Apr 16, 2010 8:48pm
Quoting qweabc
Hey Justin.. have margin requirements changed lately? I got an email saying that there is now a 1% margin requirement, but I thought this was the case earlier as well?

Also, is maintenance margin still 50% of initial? As in, say I have $100 and I buy 10K USD/JPY. If my account value falls below $50, my position gets liquidated automatically?
yea,its kind of confusing for me too! justin,we need your explanation here pls!
  • #5,134
  • Apr 16, 2010 11:16pm Apr 16, 2010 11:16pm
Hi Justin
Can you explain more Please with an example ??

As a reminder, MB Trading Futures (MBTF) will continue to enforce its "margin risk policy" with regard to accounts maintaining a minimum of 1% initial and maintenance margin at all times. Accounts that fall below the 1% Margin Debit will be liquidated accordingly.
  • #5,135
  • Apr 17, 2010 12:48am Apr 17, 2010 12:48am
Quoting qweabc
Hey Justin.. have margin requirements changed lately?
Technically they did change it, though oddly it was a bit subtle.

Take notice of my unanswered post from last February. The text from their website that I called into question no longer exists (which is good, no more ambiguity).

However, a change to a 1% hard maintenance should really have been announced. The email sent to all clients yesterday is entitled "Margin Policy Reminder", which is a bit of a misnomer, b/c the inclusion of 1% maintenance wasn't a reminder, it was news.
  • #5,136
  • Edited 9:23am Apr 17, 2010 1:46am | Edited 9:23am
Quoting pavikogm
Unfortunatelly it's not rare. I've allready written about this some weeks ago (look at my prevoius post). This week errors happened again with MT4 platform on 2 MBT accounts at the same time! Support tickets doesn't help, they are marked resolved, but problem still exists. I don't know what else I can do .
Same here. I too had MT4 platform issues some time ago, in one case it took the dealing desk 15 minutes (!!!) to close an erroneous trade (I posted about these issues here). I asked MBT to explain, what was the reason for the problems and what was their policy of compensation in cases of platform malfunctioning. I received no interpretable response. They sent a document accompanied by a note that in case it couldn't be opened, they would send it in another format. It couldn't be opened, they didn't send it in another format, and all my further e-mails were not answered. As pavikogm said, "Support tickets doesn't help, they are marked resolved, but problem still exists".

To sum up, I've got a special deal from MBT, three in one: platform malfunctioning, inefficient dealing desk, and non-existing customer support...
sans peur et sans reproche
  • #5,137
  • Apr 17, 2010 2:17am Apr 17, 2010 2:17am
My ticket from the 25th March as not been answered as yet. I rang and spent 10 minutes on hold and eventually got the answer.
  • #5,138
  • Apr 17, 2010 2:57am Apr 17, 2010 2:57am
Justin,

Thank you for your response. Please note that my objective here is not to flame MB Trading. I feel that there is tremendous potential but I am frustrated that I may end up not being able to profit from it because of the issues under discussion.

On to the debate :-

I am not sure my statment is overblown at all. You need to consider my questioning of the safety of trading with MB Trading from my point of view......

I trade the Asian Session and that means I trade at rollover time. The fact that you only had 6 issues in the last 365 day(you only had Metatrader for 6 months or did I miss something?) means very little when they take money out of my pocket. The fact that 'amost no orders' were affected means nothing since they were my orders. Furthermore, if so few orders were affected, why is "undoing" them such an issue? Surely that could reasonably be considered as a cost of doing business.

My EA trades large lotsizes with tightly controlled internal stops. This means that the potential for huge losses are very real because of execution problems. How is that safe? I feel lucky I only lost 2%, my friend lost 7%.

I have traded with many brokers but MB Trading is the only one that has such problems at rollover. Given your history of rollover problems(and I have experienced all 6 of them in the last 6 months) and for all your systems' sophistication, you seem unable to detect if there is a problem with an account??

Quote
While we obviously don’t want to have any issues in our system, I can tell you that the two key moments are Sunday start-up and then Monday through Thursday at 5 pm EST maintenance/rollover. Those are the points where 90% of the few problems that we have had occur because so many systems coming up and down together is the most likely point for something to go wrong. If possible, it is best to have a quick look just after that time to make sure your EAs are working.

I am not always available at this time. This is at 2am for me and I am also away at work sometimes. So according to this it is not safe to trade an EA at MB Trading because I am not around to monitor it?

Quote
If we were just a desk, then your loss would be our gain. We are not a desk. We make money by routing your trades through this complex system, and in the rare cases where problems occur, whether we would give a credit for the error would depend on whether the issue was fully in our control or not. In these cases, it was not.

This just smacks of washing your hands off the problem. This was somebody's gain, presumably your liquidity provider, or the bank who caused the problem. Why are you not approaching them to reverse the trade as it was their fault. After all, isn't that one of the reasons I pay commission?
  • #5,139
  • Apr 17, 2010 2:28pm Apr 17, 2010 2:28pm
Justin I have read in your web page that you route the trades of your ECN forex accounts to other clients, to banks or to dark liquidity pools. I wonder what are dark liquidity pools. Thanks.
  • #5,140
  • Apr 17, 2010 3:07pm Apr 17, 2010 3:07pm
Quoting Trad3r
I wonder what are dark liquidity pools.
Here you go.
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