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Domino's Price and order flow trading

  • #461
  • Apr 9, 2010 3:06pm Apr 9, 2010 3:06pm
Quoting bojia88
Domino, why did you say this is a bad support and bad breakout? What indications do you look for?

To me this breakout is getting into resistance zone.

I look for order flow ... I look for the strength of support and resistance that its breaking from... the stronger the break coming off of a more noticable zone the better so Itll have plenty of volatility to punch through the stop levels above... This support on the daily is worthless I think.. The move may progress.. and may run but in my opinion isnt worth the risk.
  • #462
  • Apr 9, 2010 3:10pm Apr 9, 2010 3:10pm
Quoting Bankshot
I would like to know where to get that bloomberg term. for 200 a month.
I was quoted just over $2000 a month last fall for a single terminal and this is not second hand.

Um I think there is an emulated one for 99 a month.. it means it runs on a regular computer through another program for 99 or 199 .. not sure .. i dont use it but i think they have something like that.
  • #463
  • Apr 9, 2010 3:20pm Apr 9, 2010 3:20pm
Quoting pipmutt
I might have missed it but I haven't seen how you/Domino handle exits, are there any targets with these types of trades? Assuming you don't have any volume data it must be difficult to gauge how far price is likely to go isn't it?

Yeah we dont really have access to volume in fx to build the volume profile least as retail... but for exits I let the market take me out... I dont gauge how far it will go .. only trade what it does.. price breaks down. I sell .. price continues to break I sell.. price breaks I resel.. price hits support zone I wait.. price waves failed low break high I exit. I also drag a Trailing stop way behind and adjust stops after breaks to highs.
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  • #464
  • Apr 9, 2010 4:14pm Apr 9, 2010 4:14pm
Quoting domino
I look for order flow ... I look for the strength of support and resistance that its breaking from... the stronger the break coming off of a more noticable zone the better so Itll have plenty of volatility to punch through the stop levels above... This support on the daily is worthless I think.. The move may progress.. and may run but in my opinion isnt worth the risk.
I think the move shows potential given its strength off the weekly support. TWT.
  • #465
  • Apr 9, 2010 6:22pm Apr 9, 2010 6:22pm
Quoting domino
Yeah we dont really have access to volume in fx to build the volume profile least as retail... but for exits I let the market take me out... I dont gauge how far it will go .. only trade what it does.. price breaks down. I sell .. price continues to break I sell.. price breaks I resel.. price hits support zone I wait.. price waves failed low break high I exit. I also drag a Trailing stop way behind and adjust stops after breaks to highs.
Ok, thanks
  • #466
  • Apr 9, 2010 9:46pm Apr 9, 2010 9:46pm
How does this setup tickle ya pickle then?
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  • #467
  • Apr 9, 2010 10:23pm Apr 9, 2010 10:23pm
Quoting Ted1983
How does this setup tickle ya pickle then?
What are we looking at here I cant see the code.. anyways if its at highs in an uptrend with no resistance above it I wouldnt be short even if its building good compressed orders under.. Id wait for that to drop into support zones and look for buys
  • #468
  • Apr 9, 2010 11:30pm Apr 9, 2010 11:30pm
How about this one?
RZ8K-Swapped

good OF built up under..
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  • #469
  • Apr 10, 2010 12:50am Apr 10, 2010 12:50am
how about this one?

E/G

SZ9L
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  • #470
  • Edited 2:12am Apr 10, 2010 2:00am | Edited 2:12am
Quoting Ted1983

How does this setup tickle ya pickle then?

http://cdn.forexfactory.com/attachme...1&d=1270867561

For a short? A long?

The lines you've drawn in at those retracements in the uptrend, what do they represent, buy entries, or levels where you believe stops are clustered?

I must have missed a page or two because all this looks like good ole straightforward simple TA to me! Uptrend, trade long on a retracement or a break above the previous swing high, stop below the previous low, job done......I don't get where order flow comes into it or how you're using it to help make trading decisions. The same for a reversal, trade short on a break below the previous low, stop above the high etc etc....
  • #471
  • Apr 10, 2010 2:06am Apr 10, 2010 2:06am
Quoting domino
how about this one?

E/G

SZ9L

http://cdn.forexfactory.com/attachme...1&d=1270878652

Same with this one, what are you looking to do here? Trade long on a break above those highs expecting a cluster of stops just above them to provide some upside momentum, or short with a reasonably tight stop expecting those highs to hold as resistance? Or maybe you're waiting for confirmation either way using something else?
  • #472
  • Apr 10, 2010 2:34am Apr 10, 2010 2:34am
Posting charts and drawing lines in hindsight then saying there were was order flow is not that dififcult, how do you know in advance where the orders not yet consumed are?

My theory is you cant know so this way of trading is as good as sticking a pin in the chart.

Just my current opinion I would love to be proved wrong though.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #473
  • Apr 10, 2010 2:44am Apr 10, 2010 2:44am
So what is the point of trading into stops if you know they are there?
Can anybody show me a chart of the exact moments stops were known to be executing? This is not meant to be a challenging statment to anybody, I just think that stops are getting too much attention around here.

To me, evidence of stops would occur on the smallest of time frames in the form of unidirectional bars, or long multiprice ticks. I think when we imagine stops in a theoretical sense, we imagine price breaking a swing high and immeadiatley jumping 30 pips. In reality, this sometimes happens, but more often than not, those really long bars are made of of lots of little waves on the smaller scales.

This brings up a question I've had for sometime. Maybe somebody here can answer it. Since I'm talking about stops (conditional market orders), can a buy and sell order happen at the very same time? I'm meaning action on the ask and the bid at the same granular moment. Or does each transaction have to go in turn. For example, I issue a mkt order to buy 10 lots EU @ 15:30:30.1255 (very specific time to the ten thousandth of a second) while Pip sells 5 lots @ 15:30:30.1256. Does Pip's transaction have to wait for mine to finish? I'm curious because I could see rules like this significantly affecting the behavior of the market.

I know I'm asking more of a matching engine type question, but I'm very curious.

Oh one more..What happens if buy stops were just triggered @ 100.00 and I issue a massive market sell order at the same time that dwarfs the demand the stops create? What would the PA look like in that case? Would the buy stops push price up and then my order smash it down creating a pin bar? Or would my long down bar form with the buy stops getting filled invisibly at nearest bid prices as price fell? Would you see any upticks at all if the buy stop was big enough to eat through sever offers? Do you guys see what I'm getting at?
  • #474
  • Apr 10, 2010 3:44am Apr 10, 2010 3:44am
I agree with pipmutt, posting a picture with some explanation would be great. Because in that very moment, without additional information, any trade is gambling.

And a great post of Scotty, maybe somebody could throw some light. It is clear that there's no parallelism, the orders are processed "first in first served" but when a big order comes the others waiting will suffer a lot of slippage.
  • #475
  • Apr 10, 2010 6:11am Apr 10, 2010 6:11am
Quoting Scotty B
So what is the point of trading into stops if you know they are there?
Can anybody show me a chart of the exact moments stops were known to be executing? This is not meant to be a challenging statment to anybody, I just think that stops are getting too much attention around here.
Not 'known', no, but in all probability? The way I see it (and I could be totally wrong here, but this is nothing new) is let's say price is approaching a big figure or significant support or resistance, isn't it in players interests to hunt stops around those levels to create momentum, either in the same direction, or to fade the spike if their overall intention is to move price in the opposite direction. How can we benefit from it? Isn't that along the lines of 'stop hunting with the big players' a la Boris Schlossberg style? I'm not sure I'd rely on it as a standalone strategy but it may help when deciding where (not) to place stops or where to scale into a trade.


Quoting Scotty B
I know I'm asking more of a matching engine type question, but I'm very curious.
I think that's your answer right there, wouldn't it depend on how orders were queued and/or matched? I suppose the most efficient and logical way would be to match/offset orders irrespective of where they are in the queue in which case those orders like you say would be invisible, but then maybe that's a simplistic view and there are practical reasons why that would be an ineffective way of processing orders, not to mention unfair. I think that's going to remain one of life's mysteries, I'm not sure order processing algos are in the public domain are they?


I'm still questioning the practical advantages of all this, it all seems very ambiguous to me, I could probably find an equal number of logical reasons to short at these levels as there are logical reasons to long, for me that would just add to the confusion and make it nearly impossible to place a trade with any confidence, I'd be in a never-ending second guessing cycle!

I'd really like to see an example of this in action, with at least an outline of thinking if not a detailed one. Without that it's all too easy to write this whole idea and approach off as hindsight analysis.


My 2c.....I guess I'll be needing change
  • #476
  • Apr 10, 2010 8:44am Apr 10, 2010 8:44am
Quoting pipmutt
I might have missed it but I haven't seen how you/Domino handle exits, are there any targets with these types of trades? Assuming you don't have any volume data it must be difficult to gauge how far price is likely to go isn't it?
the way I exit is pretty simple and straightforward. in line with the rest of my method:

half postion at 1:1
when filled move SL to BE+1 (1 pip for the landlord)
from then on I trail all candles Low. sometimes, if i managed to jump on a strong move, i trail only canldes that make a lower low on previous one. it depends, once i have a free trade and locked in 0.5 R:R, it is easier trying to stay in longer

ps: i give it a bit of room by trailling 5 pips below the low for obvious reasons but that is all. simple stuff again
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #477
  • Edited 9:15am Apr 10, 2010 8:51am | Edited 9:15am
Quoting Scotty B
So what is the point of trading into stops if you know they are there?
not just stops but breakout orders also. the point is expecting to get the move to accelerate, pick up momentum, when those orders get triggered. helping me getting to my target. using maket dynamics to work in you favor.
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #478
  • Apr 10, 2010 8:53am Apr 10, 2010 8:53am
Quoting Scotty B
To me, evidence of stops would occur on the smallest of time frames in the form of unidirectional bars, or long multiprice ticks. I think when we imagine stops in a theoretical sense, we imagine price breaking a swing high and immeadiatley jumping 30 pips. In reality, this sometimes happens, but more often than not, those really long bars are made of of lots of little waves on the smaller scales.
that is exactly what i meant above. you got it right
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #479
  • Apr 10, 2010 8:59am Apr 10, 2010 8:59am
Quoting Scotty B
This brings up a question I've had for sometime. Maybe somebody here can answer it. Since I'm talking about stops (conditional market orders), can a buy and sell order happen at the very same time? I'm meaning action on the ask and the bid at the same granular moment. Or does each transaction have to go in turn. For example, I issue a mkt order to buy 10 lots EU @ 15:30:30.1255 (very specific time to the ten thousandth of a second) while Pip sells 5 lots @ 15:30:30.1256. Does Pip's transaction have to wait for mine to finish? I'm curious because...
of course it can happen. and does happen all day long. a sell order goes down to hit the bid. a buy order goes up to lift the offer.

13 bid for 25 lots
14ask for 20 lots

they both get filled



maybe it's me that doesn't understand the question ?
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #480
  • Apr 10, 2010 9:07am Apr 10, 2010 9:07am
Quoting Scotty B

Oh one more..What happens if buy stops were just triggered @ 100.00 and I issue a massive market sell order at the same time that dwarfs the demand the stops create? What would the PA look like in that case? Would the buy stops push price up and then my order smash it down creating a pin bar? Or would my long down bar form with the buy stops getting filled invisibly at nearest bid prices as price fell? Would you see any upticks at all if the buy stop was big enough to eat through sever offers? Do you guys see what I'm getting at?
say you manipulated the market and you pushed it up to sell at a higher level.... and you have loads to sell, you would start to sell at a level where you expect stops to get triggered, you would want to fill those stops. slowly and surely without people noticing. then you will start pushing the market down hard and fast getting help form the breakout buyers getting their stops triggered. (double whammy !!!!) so you will have taken us, poor suckers, out both ways.....and that happens a lot. actually, it happens all day long on intraday trading
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
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