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Domino's Price and order flow trading

  • #301
  • Apr 7, 2010 4:34pm Apr 7, 2010 4:34pm
I spy volume in Metatrader!

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/4...tterminal1.png

Can this new version be "plugged into" a decent source though?
  • #302
  • Apr 7, 2010 4:40pm Apr 7, 2010 4:40pm
Darkstar...

You sun of a gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I now understand this!!!! Who does?

Jesus... it just hit me looking at a chart! I was like... duhhhhh!

Though do you trade this way DS?

Orderflow trading in a nutshell:

1)Find the stops and fade them.

2)Find the barrier options and push into them.

3)Find pockets with a lack of open interest and gap them.

4)Find a sequence of stops spaced 10-25 pips apart and prepare to put your kids through college.
  • #303
  • Apr 7, 2010 4:45pm Apr 7, 2010 4:45pm
Quoting guess121
Orderflow trading in a nutshell:
Can we have it in a slightly larger vessel than a nutshell?

Also. Cast your beady eyes across this, http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/fx/f...-e-micros.html.

Could we be heading into an age of actual futures trading though MT5?
  • #304
  • Apr 7, 2010 4:54pm Apr 7, 2010 4:54pm
Ted...

If Darkstar... could explain this... it would be nice!

But you only need to know the top 2.

DS can vouch to this, you WILL have losses with the way you trade this way, but you will have more winners than losers.

Letme explain one thing, if you have not learnt anything from this thread... then... then.. without being too harsh... never mind.

With what DS is saying, of whatever move you get into, its about adding positions to the move... so if you are long, you need to add more long positions and then call it a day. Wash and rinse and then repeat!

DS... can you explain a little into this?


Orderflow trading in a nutshell:

1)Find the stops and fade them.

2)Find the barrier options and push into them.
  • #305
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:02pm Apr 7, 2010 5:02pm
Quoting guess121
Ted...

If Darkstar... could explain this... it would be nice!

But you only need to know the top 2.

DS can vouch to this, you WILL have losses with the way you trade this way, but you will have more winners than losers.

Letme explain one thing, if you have not learnt anything from this thread... then... then.. without being too harsh... never mind.

With what DS is saying, of whatever move you get into, its about adding positions to the move... so if you are long, you need to add more long positions and then call it a day. Wash and...
Im not DS but I think he means, clusters of stop orders will eat up limit orders when triggered and cause price to move quickly in one direction, then leaving a vacuum of liquidity which you can sell/buy into.

Barrier options if you push into them then you will be with other traders who have a vested interest in busting the barrier and when it breaks the stops behind will trigger and push price beyond the barrier price and give you a nice profit.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #306
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:02pm Apr 7, 2010 5:02pm
Quoting guess121
Letme explain one thing, if you have not learnt anything from this thread... then... then.. without being too harsh... never mind.
Well that certainly was an exhaustive eplanation.

I haven't learnt anything from this thread because no-one has presented any information that I haven't read before.

WRT to the location of stops and option barriers, how do you reliably discern the difference? What would you suggest in terms of tactics, i.e entries and exits?
  • #307
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:13pm Apr 7, 2010 5:13pm
Bang on!

We have 2 ways of trading this... and I am more inclined with the first way. The second way... goshh... this is difficult.. why? If the market starts to trend, then this is very difficult to do.

We need to get in at a cheaper price in any direction, that is what this is about - a good price. It's all all risk and reward.

Quoting markmm
Im not DS but I think he means, clusters of stop orders will eat up limit orders when triggered and cause price to move quickly in one direction, then leaving a vacuum of liquidity which you can sell/buy into.

Barrier options if you push into them then you will be with other traders who have a vested interest in busting the barrier and when it breaks the stops behind will trigger and push price beyond the barrier price and give you a nice profit.
  • #308
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:14pm Apr 7, 2010 5:14pm
Eplanation?



Quoting Ted1983
an exhaustive eplanation.
  • #309
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:21pm Apr 7, 2010 5:21pm
Yes Sir! An e-planation.

It's an explanation delivered through electronic media.

I've always wanted to invent a word. And now I have!
  • #310
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:37pm Apr 7, 2010 5:37pm
The way I understand this...

This is trend trading.

Quoting markmm
Im not DS but I think he means, clusters of stop orders will eat up limit orders when triggered and cause price to move quickly in one direction, then leaving a vacuum of liquidity which you can sell/buy into.
This is finding tops and bottoms

Quoting markmm
Barrier options if you push into them then you will be with other traders who have a vested interest in busting the barrier and when it breaks the stops behind will trigger and push price beyond the barrier price and give you a nice profit.
Comon Darkstar... give us an insight

  • #311
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:42pm Apr 7, 2010 5:42pm
^^ Aye!

Which means buying and selling breakouts for the trend part, I believe.

"We can know return to your regularly scheduled programme."
  • #312
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:49pm Apr 7, 2010 5:49pm
Ahh.. well I think... not even buying or selling on breakouts... as this is after the move... it's about getting into before the move occurs... pull up and chart, look at a chart and where do you think the stops will be, on any timeframe... it does not matter too much... as stops will be placed there.

It is about risk reward.

Catching a move... is it worth catching that move... who knows... (we don't have all these other tools that these big firms have) you need to get onto it.

The other thing, is ATR... so if E/U have moved 100 pips on average over the last 30 days (lets say) - then roughly give or take whatever you like... but you are getting into a trend at daily range reaching 80/90 pips, and you arre adding to a position that is already reaching its possible max range, stop is 10/20 pips... is there point in adding to this move?

Quoting Ted1983
^^ Aye!

Which means buying and selling breakouts for the trend part, I believe.

"We can know return to your regularly scheduled programme."
  • #313
  • Apr 7, 2010 5:56pm Apr 7, 2010 5:56pm
Firmly what I believe is - day trading... you have be it 1 pip, 2 pip or 20 pips... you need to finish the day with a profit... or have a target in mind... once this has been reached..., close up for the day, and start this the next day.

This should not apply with MAX losses for the day, if you have to apply the MAX losses options, then you need to look at your system as the profit factor in your system (can't remember the forumla - but look it up on here in FF and you'll find it) and start again.

I have traded this system for the last couple of days and I have for ONCE stuck to the rules and I have left in profit, though I have seen something esle today that will hopefully allow me to increase my profit.

Anyway... I am pissed off today Man U lost, they are so shite, to those German folkers (no offence) but who likes the French and the Germans? lol!

Regards,
Vip
  • #314
  • Apr 7, 2010 6:06pm Apr 7, 2010 6:06pm
Quoting guess121
I have traded this system for the last couple of days
Which system?

[Robbens goal was struck to perfection though, I'm sure you'll admit.]
  • #315
  • Apr 7, 2010 6:27pm Apr 7, 2010 6:27pm
Quoting guess121
Darkstar...You sun of a gun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I now understand this!!!! Who does? Jesus... it just hit me looking at a chart! I was like... duhhhhh! Though do you trade this way DS?
Well, yes and no. My trade rules and setups are completely different from what Domino is doing, but we are both trading based on orderflow concepts.

For the most part everyone who reads my posts assumes that I have a magic system that I call orderflow trading. While I do have some good systems, none of them is “the orderflow system".

Orderflow trading is a mindset. A unified system of thought that allows one to look at the market to deduce what is happening in real time. Combine that understanding with experience, proper trade management skills, and a dose of human psychology and you can start constructing profitable trading systems.

Sometimes those systems are based on idiosyncrasies found in the DOM. At other times they can be based on info from IFR. At present were looking at one based on S&R, but it's all the same thing. What unifies all these disparate systems is that they are based on the expectation of future orders hitting the market.

It may be easier to contrast this with what it isn't:

It's not an equation. Orderflow traders don't care if 2 pairs have an out of whack inverse statistical correlation or if price has failed to revert to the mean. This is the realm of quantitative traders or the indicator junkies that try to find meaning in some mathematical derivative of price.

Nor is it any search for value. We don't care if a hamburger is out of line by 3c in some triangular arb situation with the BMI. We care even less about the integrity of the economic reports because we've long ago concluded that there is zero intrinsic value in financial instruments. Those are things for fundamental analysts to worry about.

And it certainly has nothing to do with some 3 bar set that has historically done X. Any asshole can curve fit a system to historical data and they are welcome to continue doing so.

What we focus on is current and future orders. Where are the stops? How much interest is at a given price? Wha’ts the likelihood that there are more buy orders then sells at a specific time? What will entice the techs and quants and fundamental guys to come in or leave the market and how can we profit from it?

This is what Domino has done to construct his trading system. We can debate about how efficient it is in relation to other orderflow based systems and we can challenge some of the rules he is following to tweak his profitability (note pyramiding in on short timeframes), but it doesn't change the fact that what he is doing works.

The only concern I have about this thread is that it's going hand a bunch of rules to people who have no comprehension of the process that Domino went through to develop it. Yes they'll have a system. They may even make some money, but in the end they will wind up screwing with it and blowing their accounts.

Being a successful trader requires confidence in what you are doing. It also requires the discipline to trade your system as it was designed. When someone is handed a system they wind up with neither. And that’s the fundamental reason why I have never given up my trading systems. I may catch a great deal of shit from the lazy or impatient for being vague, but I have a great deal of faith that being vague will create many more profitable traders then Domino will by giving it all away.

So in short, Domino is sharing some good stuff here. Learn what he is doing and try and apply it to your own perceptions and experience in the market. Learn as much as you can but don't stop learning because if you ever want to be truly good (and profitable) trader, you need to develop something for yourself.
  • #316
  • Apr 7, 2010 6:39pm Apr 7, 2010 6:39pm
Take what Dark is saying. Orderflow is great if you want to trade based off of the principles, it isn't a system in itself. All the information you need has been laid out in front of most of you, and you can be profitable once you find your 'edge'. Thanks for spoon-feeding the selected few that actually get it Domino and Dark, we appreciate it.

Farewell FF
  • #317
  • Apr 7, 2010 6:44pm Apr 7, 2010 6:44pm
Quoting Darkstar
We don't care if a hamburger is out of line by 3c in some triangular arb situation with the BMI.....

And it certainly has nothing to do with some 3 bar set that has historically done X. Any asshole can curve fit a system to historical data and they are welcome to continue doing so.....

Don't dis' the Big Mac index man.

What d'ya mean by 3 bar set? Reversal patterns or something?

Nice post.
  • #318
  • Apr 7, 2010 7:00pm Apr 7, 2010 7:00pm
I think the problem people have is that nothing has come from this other than, "buy breakouts, trail stop behind forming peaks or valleys. Add as you go". Which is trend following in my book.

That's fine with me, but if trend following on short time frames is going to be dressed up as "order flow" trading then what has been gained?

I guess what I'm asking is, how does orderflow become the rationale for a transaction, unless we're looking at market depth or profile or something?
  • #319
  • Apr 7, 2010 7:15pm Apr 7, 2010 7:15pm
Well. I downoaded a Ninjatrader demo, connected to zen-fire. As someone mentioned it earlier in the thread.

I can see the volume at bid and ask, but there is no price ladder.
Is it possible to see this anyone?

I guess if I can only see volume at the current level I should be looking for consistent imbalance on one side, which is being consumed quickly. This should be indicative of strength right?
  • #320
  • Apr 7, 2010 7:16pm Apr 7, 2010 7:16pm
Quoting markmm
He was clearly taking a shot at other types of traders, we heard it all before "Im going to to hunt your stops if your a techie etc.." but the only evidence we have is a vague punt on the euro for a 50 k loss. The whole order flow thing is wearing a bit thin, anyone with any sort of logic can see that in forex no one will ever know where orders are or if a big player is accumulating a position or taking profits.

Another thing Im not the one who used abusive names.
Forex mirrors futures and we can get that data.

I was watching the volume at bid/ask on the AUD breakout before (the one which fell back quickly), see above post.
There did indeed appear to be a large number of contracts being consumed at the bid, with little showing up at the sell.

How should we know whether to fade the break or not? I dunno.
How about we just wait until we see size coming in at the ask ( in the case of a long break) and ride the price back down to the breakout area?
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