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Domino's Price and order flow trading

  • #241
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:38am Apr 7, 2010 9:38am
Quoting nasir.khan
You can try to do it.

All you need is higher TF S/R.

Nothing else.
.
Ok tried and failed.

Now i'll try once more giving it a chance against 1150.

If i got wrong again i'll admit i was wrong.

.
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  • #242
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:43am Apr 7, 2010 9:43am
Quoting Scotty B
The orderflow looks like a plain (land with out trees) and then all of a sudden you're in a dense forest. Seriously, thats what OF is all about. That, or you're on a plain and all of a sudden you come across a mountain.
Nice description, sounds like some of my lessons when I tried to get a pilots licence!

Don't these players have some ingenious ways of covertly working an order though, without moving price against themselves too much? I read an interesting article from the MOF (BOJ) around the time they were intervening a lot, I'll have to see if I can find it again and post a link. After reading it I gave up trading JPY for a while!

But the question is where are you seeing these trees, forests, and mountains in advance?
  • #243
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:44am Apr 7, 2010 9:44am
And here is why I take only the first 2 pushes.....not that it is a guarantee of this not happening on first 2 pushes, but we have higher odds of not happening right at the start of a move.
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The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #244
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:47am Apr 7, 2010 9:47am
Quoting hornet
And here is why I take only the first 2 pushes.....not that it is a guarantee of this not happening on first 2 pushes, but we have higher odds of not happening right at the start of a move.

Do the red circles mark the end of each push hornet?
  • #245
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:48am Apr 7, 2010 9:48am
Quoting Sutts
Do the red circles mark the end of each push hornet?
yes.
a push is when the previous high is broken and market cannot go higher
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #246
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:53am Apr 7, 2010 9:53am
Quoting pipmutt
Nice description, sounds like some of my lessons when I tried to get a pilots licence!

Don't these players have some ingenious ways of covertly working an order though, without moving the market against themselves too much? I read an interesting article from the MOF (BOJ) around the time they were intervening a lot, I'll have to see if I can find it again and post a link. After reading it I gave up trading JPY for a while!

But the question is where are you seeing these trees, forests, and mountains in advance?
All these guys are doing is spouting analogies about how orders flow and how orders make price move. So what?, it takes 30 mins to understand that. The problem is no one will ever know in FX where these orders are so its a dead end. They can spout anology after analogy about trees, stop hunts blah, blah but its all a waste of time. If anyone can prove they can see where the orders are before hand in FX then nows your chance otherwise its pure gambling.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #247
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:56am Apr 7, 2010 9:56am
Quoting Scotty B
They try, but the really big players simply can't hide. It doesn't matter though because once they come in price always turns around. You have to use some discernment. I won't take a trade unless enough size has come into the market.
So every turn in price is a big player entering a big order now lol. Oh you discern the size, how do you do that?

This kinda of statement is typical of the BS on this forum.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #248
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:57am Apr 7, 2010 9:57am
Quoting markmm
All these guys are doing is spouting analogies about how orders flow and how orders make price move. So what?, it takes 30 mins to understand that. The problem is no one will ever know in FX where these orders are so its a dead end. They can spout anology after analogy about trees, stop hunts blah, blah but its all a waste of time. If anyone can prove they can see where the orders are before hand in FX then nows your chance otherwise its pure gambling.
orders are where the market gravitates to....nothing more nothing less. orders are where the market is right at this moment.
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #249
  • Apr 7, 2010 9:58am Apr 7, 2010 9:58am
Quoting markmm
So every turn in price is a big player entering a big order now lol. Oh you discern the size, how do you do that?

This kinda of statement is typical of the BS on this forum.
i second this comment
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #250
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:01am Apr 7, 2010 10:01am
Quoting hornet
orders are where the market gravitates to....nothing more nothing less. orders are where the market is right at this moment.
This is true, and I agree its good for every trader to really see that this is the case, but knowing that doenst give you any sort of edge.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #251
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:03am Apr 7, 2010 10:03am
Quoting markmm

The problem is no one will ever know in FX where these orders are so its a dead end.
I tend to agree, I think that's the bottom line. We can all speculate about where they might be, and be proved right or wrong after price has moved, but knowing in advance? I really can't see how.

And if it's all just speculation, guesswork, and probability then aren't there much simpler and equally effective ways to achieve the same result, I mean something like hornet is doing is simple yet effective, why make the job more difficult than it has to be?
  • #252
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:03am Apr 7, 2010 10:03am
Quoting markmm
This is true, and I agree its good for every trader to really see that this is the case, but knowing that doenst give you any sort of edge.
nope. but it brings you into the reality of trading. price is all that matters. and when price moves you want to follow it, not be on the other side
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #253
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:10am Apr 7, 2010 10:10am
Quoting markmm
The problem is no one will ever know in FX where these orders are so its a dead end.
true.

no one can say for sure but, we can assume that (by experience and repetition) above all significant highs there will be buying orders. which are the stops of people that went short and stop entries for the breakout traders. we don't know, we just assume but since human behaviour is repetitive we assume that there will be orders waiting to be triggered up there....
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #254
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:12am Apr 7, 2010 10:12am
Quoting Scotty B
Every significant turn, yes.
Ah significant turns, that will be the ones that you can only see well after they have formed. Comeon this is getting more ludicrous by the second.
Economists have forecast 9 out of the last 5 recessions
  • #255
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:12am Apr 7, 2010 10:12am
I'm getting deja vu, time for a stiff drink!
  • #256
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:14am Apr 7, 2010 10:14am
looks like every time that scotty character comes in, an argument develops. do we really want this happening again ???
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #257
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:17am Apr 7, 2010 10:17am
Quoting Scotty B
They try, but the really big players simply can't hide. It doesn't matter though because once they come in price always turns around. You have to use some discernment. I won't take a trade unless enough size has come into the market.
This where the problem is. How do you know when enough size has come into the market? Is that enough size is still there or is it just using the rest as liquidity? and how you take the advantage.?
Like I posted the example of my Fund Manager in my post. When enough size comes into the market and price is turning around. He would start to get out of the market and rest are just being hanging at high prices like fools.
So can you show me an example with a chart that how you did took advantage of it.
  • #258
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:18am Apr 7, 2010 10:18am
Quoting hornet
yes.
a push is when the previous high is broken and market cannot go higher
Thanks hornet.

Sorry, one more question if you don't mind. Your definition of a previous high - is that a fractal high with 2 lower highs each side or will one lower high each side of the peak be enough?

Cheers
  • #259
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:20am Apr 7, 2010 10:20am
Quoting Sutts
Thanks hornet.

Sorry, one more question if you don't mind. Your definition of a previous high - is that a fractal high with 2 lower highs each side or will one lower high each side of the peak be enough?

Cheers
1 is enough, after the peak. before i don't count
The quality of your life is brought about by the quality of your thinking.
  • #260
  • Apr 7, 2010 10:21am Apr 7, 2010 10:21am
Big players, small player, etc, etc .... Broad generalizations!!!.

I kind of agree with markmm. "Believing" that big players are here or there is wrong by definition especially when you are trading small timeframes forex with Oandas,etc bucket shops . At least in stocks and futures you have some centralize, regulated information about trades and even there is impossible to know what the big money is doing because of dark pools of liquidity and algos.

Even if you know where are the big players, its a mistake to believe that they are always right. Hedge funds, Investing Banks, Banks, Large speculators and large option players are not always in the same side.

If you have been in the market for long you will know that big orders are not necessarily the ones that make every move in the market (especially for daytrading). It is also impossible to know if these "big players" are taking profits or opening new positions. In simple words for example, price can move up because of buying pressure or the lack of selling pressure so the correlation "big players" = a real move is not 1 to 1.

sisse
Pending conversations? PM for a chat...I am mainly in OTM now
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