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Ichimoku forever

  • #11,941
  • Apr 2, 2010 6:34pm Apr 2, 2010 6:34pm
Hello Vic and Ichi360,

Thanks so much for the this thread and all the indicator....I opened a mini account for this method and I doubled the account in just 4 days of trading. Didnt trade the NFP as ichi360 was saying.

I hope to continue to contribute to this forum...

Keep the good work guys....
  • #11,942
  • Apr 2, 2010 7:15pm Apr 2, 2010 7:15pm
I've been thinking about all this since more than two days now and have also done a fair bit of research.

For some reason, I've always found that waiting for CS to clear the Kumo delays our entry. Also, waiting for Cloud to turn Bullish (in case of Long) delays our entry further.

I have absolutely no justification and / or reference but based on my previous experiences I've found that the CS v/s KS Break holds a greater significance than the above mentioned points.

Comments / debates / healthy discussion will be highly appreciated ...

Cheers,
Asher
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Ichimoku_EntryPoints_001.jpg Size: 177 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: Ichimoku_EntryPoints_002.jpg Size: 157 KB
  • #11,943
  • Apr 2, 2010 11:36pm Apr 2, 2010 11:36pm
Quoting vic_elc
the arrow is red cause this is the realtion of the price WRT to the Kumo
so when the price is below the kumo u'll get the red arrow and vice versa.
have a look at another TF , or if u have a chart where the price is below the kumo and u have green arrow just post in here

Hi Vic,

Many thanks. Now I understand ...
Btw, what is WRT ?

Thanks.
- pedma -
Good friends are more valuable than gold ...
  • #11,944
  • Apr 2, 2010 11:44pm Apr 2, 2010 11:44pm
Quoting ichi360
I hope you wouldnt get me wrong but I'm really trying to understand why are you guys trading today ? Trading with NFP release is like pure gambling and not trading, we're no big sharks who get the proper environment and news breaks in their trading room ... all we can do is to analyse a trend on chart and then make some money from it.

Dont take me wrong, I'm just trying to learn if there is something I'm missing or if its a good idea to trade on days like this when its a Good Friday, thin volume, highly volatile and NFP release ... do we really...

Hi Asher,

Thanks for your opinion. I have 2 questions :

1) So, before the NFP release (may be 3 - 5 minutes before that) we must CLOSE ALL of our trading & wait until about 30 minutes after the NFP release to make a dicision ?

2) How about this:
About 1 minutes before the NFP release, we put 2 ORDER trade. We also create the SL for them. Each order is about 5 pips from the current price. The order is the oposite one each other.
Example : The price of EUR/USD 1 minute before NFP release is : 1,3566. So we put 1 BUY order at 1,3571 with SL 1,3546 and TP 1,3599. The other is a SELL order at 1,3561 with SL at 1,3586 and TP 1,3536. This is a shot term trading. But if the price with reach our TP, we can move our TP.
Does is make sense or it's dangeruous ?

Thanks.
- pedma -
Good friends are more valuable than gold ...
  • #11,945
  • Apr 3, 2010 12:10am Apr 3, 2010 12:10am
Hi ichi360, i've just read all the pages of this thread,
I'm not english native mother tongue, maybe that's why i didnt understand what do you mean by " CS v/s " ( while i know what does it mean by "kumo breakout" )

could you explain it to me ? thanks in advance
  • #11,946
  • Apr 3, 2010 12:16am Apr 3, 2010 12:16am
Quoting ichi360
I've been thinking about all this since more than two days now and have also done a fair bit of research.

For some reason, I've always found that waiting for CS to clear the Kumo delays our entry. Also, waiting for Cloud to turn Bullish (in case of Long) delays our entry further.

I have absolutely no justification and / or reference but based on my previous experiences I've found that the CS v/s KS Break holds a greater significance than the above mentioned points.

Comments / debates / healthy discussion will be highly appreciated ...

Cheers,
Asher...
Hi Asher,

Actually I'm not capable to give this opinion. But I just dared my self, and hope that other ichimokus profesionals can give their opinion to this

I prefer the Cs/Kumo breakout signal (number 1 in picture) which will give the STRONG signal. The other one may be just a WEAK signal. How about it ?


Another non technical question: Where can I get the Volume indicator like yours on your chart ?

thanks
- pedma -
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Cs-signal.jpg Size: 60 KB
Good friends are more valuable than gold ...
  • #11,947
  • Apr 3, 2010 12:40am Apr 3, 2010 12:40am
Quoting ichi360
I've been thinking about all this since more than two days now and have also done a fair bit of research.

Comments / debates / healthy discussion will be highly appreciated ...

Cheers,
Asher
Hello Asher,

These thoughts will open our minds for fresh research.

Regarding strategy 3, taking decision, when price reaches above next kumo, will certainly delays our entry. But this new bullish kumo cloud will start forming much earlier. How about entering at that moment?

Regards
  • #11,948
  • Apr 3, 2010 12:40am Apr 3, 2010 12:40am
Hi All,

I like a simple point of //speculare, he get the strongest & weakest currency in the morning of each day. I think it's a good point too. But I don't know what is the criteria a strongest / weakest currency. Example, we are staying always at 4H TF. We are looking at Asher's ichimonitor at 4H TF for all favorite pair :
USD, EUR, GBP, JPY, AUD, CAD. So it will be so many pairs like: EUR/USD, GBP/USD, USD/JPY, AUD/USD, USD/CAD, EUR/GBP, EUR/JPY, EUR/AUD, EUR/CAD, etc .. etc .. From ichimonitor, we can see the arrow of PA, P/Ks, Ts/Ks, Cs . If all of them in the SAME direction, so we call it a strong currency (Long signal - blue) or weak currency (Short signal - red). But, if NOT ALL of them (PA, P/Ks, Ts/Ks, Cs) blue/red , how can we say it's strong or weak ?

Another question: if we have some pair are in strong currency, how can we decide one is stronger then another ?
Any opinion is welcome...

Thanks.
- pedma -
Good friends are more valuable than gold ...
  • #11,949
  • Apr 3, 2010 12:54am Apr 3, 2010 12:54am
Quoting gkdoda
Hello Asher,

These thoughts will open our minds for fresh research.

Regarding strategy 3, taking decision, when price reaches above next kumo, will certainly delays our entry. But this new bullish kumo cloud will start forming much earlier. How about entering at that moment?

Regards
Hello Asher,

The below chart will clear what I want to say. Entering at 1.474 inside the thick kumo cloud with CS also inside is not considered strong signal for selling.

But at that moment,

TS < KS
CS was bearish
and Future kumo was also beaish. Note, we're not below conjunction of span A and span B; but the future cloud has started forming.

That gave the sell signal. The price went up for max. 10.1 pips after giving the signal but made good profit after that.

Hope I'm able to explain.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: euraud-m15.gif Size: 38 KB
  • #11,950
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:02am Apr 3, 2010 1:02am
Hi Pedma,

Here are the answers:
1. I, just do not trade on NFP except very long term call which are based on Daily and / or Weekly TF. Even for those I would have made sure that they have been secured well with the Breakever SL. This week there were more than one reasons for not trading, not only NFP but also Low volume in market.

2. I'm not sure if I understood this strategy ... Open LONG and SHORT trades at the same price and / or time ... so where is the profit here one will be making profits and other one will be doing the OffSet ... right ? Secondly my question is why would you want to do it that way ?

See, Trading is a serious business and while it demands us that we trade on consistent basis it also demands us that we do not risk our capital and / or gains during uncertain times. With time and experience, it will also teach us when to take minimum risk and when to increase the risk in order to book a larger chunk of profits ...

Cheers.

Quoting pedma
Hi Asher,

Thanks for your opinion. I have 2 questions :

1) So, before the NFP release (may be 3 - 5 minutes before that) we must CLOSE ALL of our trading & wait until about 30 minutes after the NFP release to make a dicision ?

2) How about this:...
  • #11,951
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:07am Apr 3, 2010 1:07am
Regardless of the discussion we have had for CS clearning the Kumo or not ... this trade on LONG side was just not valid anyways and if I were you I would have avoided it.

When trading at 4H and you get a signal its not enough to see things on that TF alone, all the other TFs were mixed up and 1H was also ready tired and ready to give up as well as 30M and 15m ... it was just a matter of time that this Breakout was going to be invalid ... There will be a Long opportunity I believe in the coming days but this signal was not good enough.

Second question regarding Volume ... I'm not sure if I've used any Volume Indicator on my charts ever ... where did you see that ?

Quoting pedma
Hi Asher,

Actually I'm not capable to give this opinion. But I just dared my self, and hope that other ichimokus profesionals can give their opinion to this

I prefer the Cs/Kumo breakout signal (number 1 in picture) which will give the STRONG signal. The other one may be just a WEAK signal. How about it ?


Another non technical question: Where can I get the Volume indicator like yours on your chart ?

thanks
- pedma -
  • #11,952
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:09am Apr 3, 2010 1:09am
I'm indeed confused about your point ...

I could not see any Kumo Breakout in your chart (I mean near your SELL price) ... where was the signal then ?

Quoting gkdoda
Hello Asher,

The below chart will clear what I want to say. Entering at 1.474 inside the thick kumo cloud with CS also inside is not considered strong signal for selling.

But at that moment,

TS < KS
CS was bearish
and Future kumo was also beaish. Note, we're not below conjunction of span A and span B; but the future cloud has started forming.

That gave the sell signal. The price went up for max. 10.1 pips after giving the signal but made good profit after that.

Hope I'm able to explain.
Attachment
  • #11,953
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:16am Apr 3, 2010 1:16am
Quoting ichi360
I'm indeed confused about your point ...

I could not see any Kumo Breakout in your chart (I mean near your SELL price) ... where was the signal then ?
There is no kumo breakout in this chart at the time of sell signal. I didn't mention about breakout in my post. Just see the chart of EURAUD M15 on 02-Apr-2010 10:15

That will clear everything.
The future barish kumo just STARTED to form at that moment. TS < KS and CS was also bearish.

Hope it is clear now.
  • #11,954
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:19am Apr 3, 2010 1:19am
OK, now got it.

However my actual discussion was around the Kumo Breakout Trades that whether or not we should wait for

1. CS to clear Kumo
2. Future Cloud to turn Bullish / Bearish depending on the type of trade

If you can recall this discussion was started from a couple of charts I posted for my ANZ and RIO TINTO trades which were based on Kumo Breakout strategy.








Quoting gkdoda
There is no kumo breakout in this chart at the time of sell signal. I didn't mention about breakout in my post. Just see the chart of EURAUD M15 on 02-Apr-2010 10:15

That will clear everything.
The future barish kumo just STARTED to form at that moment. TS < KS and CS was also bearish.

Hope it is clear now.
  • #11,955
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:27am Apr 3, 2010 1:27am
Quoting ichi360
OK, now got it.

However my actual discussion was around the Kumo Breakout Trades that whether or not we should wait for

1. CS to clear Kumo
2. Future Cloud to turn Bullish / Bearish depending on the type of trade

If you can recall this discussion was started from a couple of charts I posted for my ANZ and RIO TINTO trades which were based on Kumo Breakout strategy.
I also refered same post. Perhaps I use some different words.
I don't agree with first point. Waiting for CS to clear kumo might be delay decision. But I agree on second point if we enter at the STARTING of kumo turning bearish / bullish.
  • #11,956
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:34am Apr 3, 2010 1:34am
Isnt that just based on a feeling rather than a solid visible thing ... Lets say we saw Future Cloud turning Bullish but then it changed its mind and turned Bearish all the way down to south ...



Quoting gkdoda
we enter at the STARTING of kumo turning bearish / bullish.
  • #11,957
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:37am Apr 3, 2010 1:37am
Quoting ichi360
Isnt that just based on a feeling rather than a solid visible thing ... Lets say we saw Future Cloud turning Bullish but then it changed its mind and turned Bearish all the way down to south ...
In any way you'll consider TS/KS and CS position also while taking any trading call. These are the fundamentals of this trading. I just view to add one more component in our decision, which itself is a part of this system.
  • #11,958
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:45am Apr 3, 2010 1:45am
All good then ...

I had a different picture in my mind about Future Cloud confirmation which is the more conventional one followed by majority of traders.

Cheers.

Quoting gkdoda
In any way you'll consider TS/KS and CS position also while taking any trading call. These are the fundamentals of this trading. I just view to add one more component in our decision, which itself is a part of this system.
  • #11,959
  • Apr 3, 2010 1:55am Apr 3, 2010 1:55am
Quoting ichi360
All good then ...

I had a different picture in my mind about Future Cloud confirmation which is the more conventional one followed by majority of traders.

Cheers.
I'm also making one indicator on this concept. Will release it next week.
That will make more sense.

Regards
  • #11,960
  • Apr 3, 2010 2:49am Apr 3, 2010 2:49am
Although not Ichimoku charts but I thought some of you might be interested in the long term view ...

Cheers.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSD_PF_020410.jpg Size: 154 KB
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