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Ichimoku forever

  • #11,821
  • Apr 1, 2010 4:25am Apr 1, 2010 4:25am
Correction ... MAs are not leading indicators, these are not plotted ahead of price.

Quoting nightyhawk
future kumo is build by two moving averages which are plotted ahead the price
  • #11,822
  • Apr 1, 2010 4:33am Apr 1, 2010 4:33am
Quoting ichi360
Correction ... MAs are not leading indicators, these are not plotted ahead of price.
???

The kumo (and future kumo, too) consists of SenkouSpan A and SenkouSpan B which are plotted 26 ahead of price (or shifted forward 26 periods)....

So they can't be repainting, can they?
  • #11,823
  • Apr 1, 2010 4:44am Apr 1, 2010 4:44am
Sorry I thought you referred to TS / KS when you said MAs




Quoting nightyhawk
???

The kumo (and future kumo, too) consists of SenkouSpan A and SenkouSpan B which are plotted 26 ahead of price (or shifted forward 26 periods)....

So they can't be repainting, can they?
  • #11,824
  • Apr 1, 2010 4:49am Apr 1, 2010 4:49am
Quoting 4xAddict
Hi Gkdoda,

The projected Kumo is not traditionally a solid trade signal on its own but is often used quite effectively on longer TFs by traders in support of their planned trade entries.

It is not as strong as at TS/Ks cross or CS cross of the price action for example.

This has been my experience and I would generally not consider this unless trading 4hr or above. Vic or Ichi360 may have used this on the 1hr but I have not due to repainting as previously discussed.

4x.
Hello,

First of all, I don't understand why do you call it re-painting factor. Re-paint is "removing" the previous signal and "substitute" with another signal as per market trend. But in case of future kumo, it does not "remove" the previous cloud; infact it adds the another cloud further. So, it is not re-painting. You may call it that it changes with time. And on timeframes like H1, it does not chang so frequently.

Secondly, I've tested the concept of Future Kumo on H1 chart and many times, I've noticed that future kumo filters out many false signals & range-bound noise which otherwise was given by KS/TS crossover and CS.

Will test it on higher & lower time frames also now.

Last but not the least, the original genius, the creator of Ichimoku, must have some strong purpose for creating future kumo and that's we have to find out.

Regards
  • #11,825
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:11am Apr 1, 2010 5:11am
Cable is breaking out on the H4, I am unable to post chart...

Anyone else spotted this?
  • #11,826
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:12am Apr 1, 2010 5:12am
Quoting ichi360
Sorry I thought you referred to TS / KS when you said MAs
Hi Ichi,

would like to ask you about the Cs, it has saved me from many trades and also make me lost a few good ones, in this examples you show in your site, you entered before the Cs crossed the kumo, could you explain when we can enter early to catch more of the move ?
Ive read that sometimes you can enter early if the Cs is on a strong upward move few candles before entering the kumo.

Thanks.
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Click to Enlarge Name: RIO_270310.jpg Size: 167 KB
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  • #11,827
  • Edited 5:26am Apr 1, 2010 5:13am | Edited 5:26am
In theory I agree with you, there must be a reason for that. But my question is ... isnt that going to delay our Entry to a point where the price has already made the moves that we should have traded ?

Secondly, are we on the right track to assume that this is the actual use of Future Kumo ?

Apparently, there isnt much you can find about this topic on web except that its covered in Ichimoku Time/Price Analysis (the topic I covered few months back here).



Quoting gkdoda
Hello,

First of all, I don't understand why do you call it re-painting factor. Re-paint is "removing" the previous signal and "substitute" with another signal as per market trend. But in case of future kumo, it does not "remove" the previous cloud; infact it adds the another cloud further. So, it is not re-painting. You may call it that it changes with time. And on timeframes like H1, it does not chang so frequently.

Secondly, I've tested the concept of Future Kumo on H1 chart and many times, I've noticed that future kumo filters out many...
  • #11,828
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:14am Apr 1, 2010 5:14am
Quoting gkdoda
Hello,

First of all, I don't understand why do you call it re-painting factor. Re-paint is "removing" the previous signal and "substitute" with another signal as per market trend. But in case of future kumo, it does not "remove" the previous cloud; infact it adds the another cloud further. So, it is not re-painting. You may call it that it changes with time. And on timeframes like H1, it does not chang so frequently.

Secondly, I've tested the concept of Future Kumo on H1 chart and many times, I've noticed that future kumo filters out...


You are correct, I was being lazy.

I used the term repainting for the purpose of generalizing the fast changes of the lower TF kumos as Ichi360 had described the unreliability of these projections as repainting already in the discussion.

Apologies
  • #11,829
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:24am Apr 1, 2010 5:24am
Thats right Sir ...

By the way, although I know that its the general view of the members here, I've never advocated that we should wait for CS to clear Kumo ... Apologies if this is in conflict with majority of the members here but slowly and gradually I'm drifting towards a point where I've started to believe that few most pouplar concepts are just a cause of delay to our trade entry points.

One more thing I've started to question is the most basic and well known concept of TS/KS Crosses and their positions against the Kumo Cloud ... we've been taught that a Bullish a Cross below Cloud is weak and above Kumo is strong .... why then at times (and quite often) we get a huge rally after that WEAK cross and why at times (that too quite often) we get stopped out from the STRONG cross trade ???

After a lot of thinking I'm reaching to a point where I've started to question the basic concepts we have been told ... I've a feeling there is something missing out there ...

Will appreciate your feedback.

Quoting Osman
Hi Ichi,

would like to ask you about the Cs, it has saved me from many trades and also make me lost a few good ones, in this examples you show in your site, you entered before the Cs crossed the kumo, could you explain when we can enter early to catch more of the move ?
Ive read that sometimes you can enter early if the Cs is on a strong upward move few candles before entering the kumo.

Thanks.
  • #11,830
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:26am Apr 1, 2010 5:26am
Quoting Ichi Kid
Cable is breaking out on the H4, I am unable to post chart...

Anyone else spotted this?
Here is it
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: cable h4.jpg Size: 167 KB
Do what you want, but do it in love
  • #11,831
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:34am Apr 1, 2010 5:34am
Quoting ichi360
Thats right Sir ...

By the way, although I know that its the general view of the members here, I've never advocated that we should wait for CS to clear Kumo ... Apologies if this is in conflict with majority of the members here but slowly and gradually I'm drifting towards a point where I've started to believe that few most pouplar concepts are just a cause of delay to our trade entry points.

One more thing I've started to question is the most basic and well known concept of TS/KS Crosses and their positions against the Kumo Cloud ... we've...
Very often you can see that after a weak cross close to the Kumo, price breaks through it (kumo breakout) and trends strongly in our favor. almost every good kumo breakout has the weak cross before it, but very few breakouts after a cross get bad.
Patience is key.
  • #11,832
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:37am Apr 1, 2010 5:37am
Quoting oli
Here is it
hi oli.

could you please explain how you draw the lines? it looks we will have a down trend quite soon but I was wondering how long will it take to form?
  • #11,833
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:37am Apr 1, 2010 5:37am
Quoting oli
Here is it
can u please tell me where i can put my TP???????

i still new>>>>>>
  • #11,834
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:40am Apr 1, 2010 5:40am
Quoting ichi360
Thats right Sir ...

By the way, although I know that its the general view of the members here, I've never advocated that we should wait for CS to clear Kumo ... Apologies if this is in conflict with majority of the members here but slowly and gradually I'm drifting towards a point where I've started to believe that few most pouplar concepts are just a cause of delay to our trade entry points.

One more thing I've started to question is the most basic and well known concept of TS/KS Crosses and their positions against the Kumo Cloud ... we've...
No sir please, just.. bro

After I saw your blog post and yesterday Adipati´s trade on the 4hr which I didnt took as I was waiting for Cs to clear kumo (missed 100 pips).
I stayed yesterday nite like 3 hours checking charts and ure totally right about the Ks/Ts cross, maybe its important in lower tfs but not in 1hr/4hr.
Also was checking the Cs, on the 4hrs and once is pointing down, it may retrace but it will end going down.
And ive post here good examples on 1hr of the Cs potencial but at the end I just think that its strong r/s on the chart.

Example on 4hrs:
Eur/cad you had a down move you wouldn't enter because of the Cs, it went up and down again, would end up with a worse entry.
Usd/Cad: had a down move you would wait for the Cs and enter 50 pips later, worse entry.

Also did a little experiment that Im sure many of you have done. Took everything out except the Kumo and I was amazed. You can easily trade with just the Kumo !!
Trade Smart
  • #11,835
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:41am Apr 1, 2010 5:41am
Quoting ichi360
Thats right Sir ...

By the way, although I know that its the general view of the members here, I've never advocated that we should wait for CS to clear Kumo ... Apologies if this is in conflict with majority of the members here but slowly and gradually I'm drifting towards a point where I've started to believe that few most pouplar concepts are just a cause of delay to our trade entry points.

One more thing I've started to question is the most basic and well known concept of TS/KS Crosses and their positions against the Kumo Cloud ... we've...
IMHO you have to think why some ppl wait for CS to break out the kumo - or why a bulllish TS/KS cross is supposed to be weak! The possible answer might be, that the KUMO is not only resistance for the price action but for all other Ichi-Lines, too. So a kumobreakout with CS still in the kumo might end soon cause CS is not able to break the kumo.
Furthermore a weak bullish TS/KS cross is dangerous because Kijun and even Tenkan have to break both Senkou-Lines to confirm further bullish price action.
Nevertheless you can go even with a weak bullish TS/KS when higher timeframes are supporting this scenario (e.g. by a recent kumo breakout with all ichi-lines confirming this picture)!!!
  • #11,836
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:41am Apr 1, 2010 5:41am
Quoting redbeben
hi oli.

could you please explain how you draw the lines? it looks we will have a down trend quite soon but I was wondering how long will it take to form?
The lines are done automatically by an indicator called SSHI_trendlines or something like that and it repaints.
Trade Smart
  • #11,837
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:47am Apr 1, 2010 5:47am
Quoting redbeben
hi oli.

could you please explain how you draw the lines? it looks we will have a down trend quite soon but I was wondering how long will it take to form?
Its the "SHI- channel", it draws helplines ( min 2 touch points ) and sometimes trendlines ( min 3 touch points )
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 SHI_Channel_true.ex4   6 KB | 323 downloads
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  • #11,838
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:49am Apr 1, 2010 5:49am
Quoting Osman
The lines are done automatically by an indicator called SSHI_trendlines or something like that and it repaints.
aaaa...because the price still goes up.I only hope it will hit my TP before it drops again.
my only question now is if either of you fancy using the elliot waves analisis.anyone read anything about it .I did it some time ago and now I am starting to use it in conjunction with ichi and apparently it works...
  • #11,839
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:53am Apr 1, 2010 5:53am
Sometimes it shows important lines....see below
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: example shi-channel.jpg Size: 164 KB
Do what you want, but do it in love
  • #11,840
  • Apr 1, 2010 5:53am Apr 1, 2010 5:53am
p.s. I just boosted my acc to 110% growth in less than 4 days....I still want to win the damn Porche
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