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  • #20,581
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:15pm Mar 30, 2010 10:15pm
Quoting eventtrading
Kourtney,

It doesn't matter if you hedge in one account, if you hedge in 2 accounts with the same broker, if you hedge in 2 accounts with 2 brokers, if you hedge a 5 minute interval vs a weekly interval - the result is the same - always. If you are long and short at the same time, you are no longer in the market. When you hit the hedge button, your original trade is over, finished, kaput.
In order to make money trading you must choose a direction, long or short. It cannot be both. We need to trade the market, not game the market.
well i respectfully disagree... I hedged a few minutes ago long on GBP/JPY took profits on the longs now my shorts that were loosing more money are still there but took advantage of the better higher rate to sell more....

some brokers "offer" 2 accounts so u can hedge...that is just a damn trick a hedge works as a lock whenever u dont really know where the market will go and will be explosive move that can ruin your original strategy...example a terrorist atack or a non farm payroll... so u hedge take the fast deep or spike and retake the original position with even better rates.

I understand everybody has different concepts and trading styles...but if you ask me hedging is a very good tool. Not easy to use but profitable if you know how to use it and never letting your emotions control your trade
  • #20,582
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:17pm Mar 30, 2010 10:17pm
Quoting thadakman
Currency pairs constantly go up AND down; I wouldn't say you're out of the market when you hedge... in theory you are if you plan on closing both positions at the same time, but I've actually made pips both ways in the same pair while hedging several times... you just have to close one side several hours or days later... it can actually be a pretty good strategy if used successfully... believe me, I've read many articles lambasting it but I still see the benefit, especially if you're trading multiple time frames.

exactly...example...i am right now selling AUD took profit in hlf of my positions o this deep after the news...now i have lots selling still in minus but Im also buying so will take profit in my long in the next 12 hours and will hold my shorts for maybe 3 or days.... by the way once the AUD comes up a bit more i reopen shorts and the better rate will help me get better profits or close even the actual shorts.....

I hope this makes sense

regards
  • #20,583
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:18pm Mar 30, 2010 10:18pm
For you guys who hedge, how do you do it in the short term? I understand the benefits of hedging long term, but if you are scalping, does it pay off to hedge?

Sorry, i know i should keep my a$$ in the rookie forum but i couldnt resist

Also, i am short aud @ .9156....any advice? i set my sl @ .9168....
  • #20,584
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:20pm Mar 30, 2010 10:20pm
Multiple time frames have nothing to do with it. I understand the confusion. It took me quite a while to get it. The bottom line is when you're evenly hedged, your equity remains constant, the same as being flat, out of the market. For every point you gain, you lose a point. You can't have your cake and eat it too. That's the bottom line.
They call me "Hondo"
  • #20,585
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:23pm Mar 30, 2010 10:23pm
Oh how pleasant looks like the 9200 resist held, and its may have reversed at TL.
  • #20,586
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:23pm Mar 30, 2010 10:23pm
Bear Flag anyone or just a fake? I don't trade these things but I may demo trade it.
When this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're gonna see some serious s***.
  • #20,587
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:24pm Mar 30, 2010 10:24pm
Quoting thadakman
Currency pairs constantly go up AND down; I wouldn't say you're out of the market when you hedge... in theory you are if you plan on closing both positions at the same time, but I've actually made pips both ways in the same pair while hedging several times... you just have to close one side several hours or days later... it can actually be a pretty good strategy if used successfully... believe me, I've read many articles lambasting it but I still see the benefit, especially if you're trading multiple time frames.
now i get the picture of hedging i agree with you bro, the market will just be gliding back and forth, although sometimes it runs but most of the time walking. the way i look at this, this will be very effective, another way of rescuing your losses but with this stratagem, we need a huge capitalizaton, and it's bloody messy on a false move

but on a very strong and persistent market, i believe better not hold any loosing trade long which is not common but if it does it really butchered all sitting ducks hehehehe
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiam
  • #20,588
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:26pm Mar 30, 2010 10:26pm
Quoting MarcVUM
Bear Flag anyone or just a fake? I don't trade these things but I may demo trade it.
it's a bear trap for me still very bearish though, but the momentum slows down a bit
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiam
  • #20,589
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:27pm Mar 30, 2010 10:27pm
Quoting eventtrading
Multiple time frames have nothing to do with it. I understand the confusion. It took me quite a while to get it. The bottom line is when you're evenly hedged, your equity remains constant, the same as being flat, out of the market. For every point you gain, you lose a point. You can't have your cake and eat it too. That's the bottom line.
No one's refuting the fact that your equity remains constant when hedging, rather, we're saying that it is a strategy than can actually be used effectively, big difference... for example, I'll have multiple long and short positions (opened at various prices; I only scale in and out when I trade) on a pair open and several of them may close while I'm sleeping, if done right, your account will begin to grow...

By exposing yourself to both the short and long side of a pair you can make money; something that is impossible to do if you're not exposed at all to the market, which you basically claim Hedging does, since your account remains "constant".
  • #20,590
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:28pm Mar 30, 2010 10:28pm
Proda, there are no benefits to hedging. Short term, medium term, long term.
In fact there is a huge cost to hedging, aka "Opportunity Cost." While you are hedged (out of the market), the market may trade to "infinity" and you missed it all. At least you'll be able to say you didn't lose anything.
They call me "Hondo"
  • #20,591
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:32pm Mar 30, 2010 10:32pm
Quoting MarcVUM
Bear Flag anyone or just a fake? I don't trade these things but I may demo trade it.
Maybe it reversed very close to trend line and todays candle looks bearish, see if bears can take this to 9120 tmr would be very interesting move then.
  • #20,592
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:32pm Mar 30, 2010 10:32pm
Quoting Proda
For you guys who hedge, how do you do it in the short term? I understand the benefits of hedging long term, but if you are scalping, does it pay off to hedge?

Sorry, i know i should keep my a$$ in the rookie forum but i couldnt resist

Also, i am short aud @ .9156....any advice? i set my sl @ .9168....
It can work great during the US job reports the first Friday of every month... pull up some charts and see how some pairs have made big moves down and back up and back down before deciding on a direction... you can pull plenty of pips on both sides, even by putting in buy and sell orders before the news breaks, since you're losing side will usually at least break even if you play it right... better than 50/50 odds you'd get if you only play one side before the news (not that I'm recommending Gambling the news!)
  • #20,593
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:32pm Mar 30, 2010 10:32pm
I see...yea it seems a little hard to grasp at times in a short market, because if you enter a trade and it doesnt execute, then you are not actually hedging. To me, I think i get hedging on the long term scale. i doubt i am ready to understand it short term, but we'll see.
  • #20,594
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:35pm Mar 30, 2010 10:35pm
this is the forum that it once was, very active and millions of ideas overflowing... keep the ball rolling you guys, a lot of people like me still learning here.

anybody wants my assistance, just poke me and i will share you what i know as long as i could peace to all.
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiam
  • #20,595
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:35pm Mar 30, 2010 10:35pm
Quoting Zeroh
Maybe it reversed very close to trend line and todays candle looks bearish, see if bears can take this to 9120 tmr would be very interesting move then.
I see it on the M15 chart.
When this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're gonna see some serious s***.
  • #20,596
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:35pm Mar 30, 2010 10:35pm
I appreciate your sticking up for your guns, however until you get this hedging stuff straight it will severely hamper you ability to make consistent and large profits. All hedging does is prevent you from being profitable. Yeah, I can make 500 points on one side of the hedge, but I lost 500 on the other side. Sorry guys, that's just the way it is. Next time you put a hedge on, note your equity, and check it again when you take the hedge off. OK?
They call me "Hondo"
  • #20,597
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:37pm Mar 30, 2010 10:37pm
Quoting eventtrading
Proda, there are no benefits to hedging.
I don't really think you should be making a blanket statement about hedging... rather, you should tell him something like, "Proda, I find no benefit to hedging myself"...

Trust me, I'm not the only one who has benefited from hedging; am I trying to convince someone to hedge? No... but I'd tell him/her about the benefits I've encountered from it and let them decide on their own... basically, everyone needs to just find a system/strategy that they're comfortable with, understand, and that can make them money over time regardless of whether or not someone sees any benefit to it.
  • #20,598
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:39pm Mar 30, 2010 10:39pm
Quoting eventtrading
I appreciate your sticking up for your guns, however until you get this hedging stuff straight it will severely hamper you ability to make consistent and large profits. All hedging does is prevent you from being profitable. Yeah, I can make 500 points on one side of the hedge, but I lost 500 on the other side. Sorry guys, that's just the way it is. Next time you put a hedge on, note your equity, and check it again when you take the hedge off. OK?
Eventtrading, it works...i've tested it and use it.
When this baby hits 88 miles per hour, you're gonna see some serious s***.
  • #20,599
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:41pm Mar 30, 2010 10:41pm
in my opinion, (though i haven't done it yet!) hedging is effective tool of rescuing loosing trade provided that one is trading long time frame like daily; there will be ample period to correct the direction - this can be possible for me as long as i have the time to baby sit the trade.

for me preservation of capital is the most important. if i made a bad call, i personally close my position and re analyze the market again to spot a profitable entry with low risk if possible

there's always a good tradeable set ups ahead... the market is always there waiting for ducks like us hahahahah, just kidding.

peace!
Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiam
  • #20,600
  • Mar 30, 2010 10:43pm Mar 30, 2010 10:43pm
Make sense to short or no?
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