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Where can I learn more about Price Action like those in James16 charts? 9 replies

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james16 Chart Thread

  • #59,341
  • Mar 27, 2010 12:33am Mar 27, 2010 12:33am
Quoting raczekfx
need a exact date?
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Deja vu.
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  • #59,342
  • Mar 27, 2010 12:54am Mar 27, 2010 12:54am
Quoting nasir.khan
Deja vu.
.
that's much more rangy than the above chart.
i can still see a possibility of it going further up, to 48-50.
let's see next week.
  • #59,343
  • Edited 2:29am Mar 27, 2010 2:10am | Edited 2:29am
Quoting TiaForex
I personally think this debate over higher v lower timeframes is a little pointless.

This is James' thread. Based on his experience he offers suggestions. They are, in his opinion, the best way to achieve success in the market.

But this is one corner of the forex education world. If you disagree with James and feel that you want to start on intraday then go for it. No one here is holding a gun to your head. But James' opinion will not change. He has formed it over years of experience and pain. You don't have to agree with him and there are...
Ok I said my bit and still believe that demo is a waste of time, lower time frames will speed up your learning 1000x and using risk management, it would require 70 losses in a row which means you haven't understood the material.

If you still think demoing is the way to go see this post by THE master himself

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...39&postcount=1

I think that says it all really.

No hard feelings, Im out here too much koolaid.
  • #59,344
  • Mar 27, 2010 3:06am Mar 27, 2010 3:06am
i agree with some of the things u say but as i dont have much of an idea how to trade consistently i find demo helpful seems whats the point of trading live if u dont have a strategy and rules to follow seems im still new and experimenting. i dont see the point in losing albeit even if its only 50 bucks. However i would be happy to lose if i followed some rules and had a plan but i dont currently. I want to go to live when i do have a plan not just taking trades without a plan just so i can play with real money. i am way to erratic at the moment even on demo. imagine what i would be live. I have done live once and it was an interesting experience to say the least.

In saying that you cant be nurtured on demo forever, There has to be a time you move on to live, however i still feel you must take your time on demo to get ur strategy's set and have confidence in reading the market. I have been demo'ing for a year and still feel like i havnt made any progress.

i guess it takes how ever long it takes for me to get some consistency on demo then i will open a small live account to trade from.

i see your points though with lower time frame more opportunies to learn and risk and what not. i probably would be tempted to but seems i work full time and live in australia i cant trade when the fx market is most liquid (trading asia session is absolute suicide) may as well take my grandma for a walk down the road) seems im in bed so for me daily is fine at the moment.

anyway thanks for bringing up ur opinion , everyone welcomes it here im sure
  • #59,345
  • Mar 27, 2010 3:38am Mar 27, 2010 3:38am
Hi guys....

If i may say my opinion on this debate... just when markets are off. It seems here everybody is trying to make their points... and most of reasons are ehm "reasonable". I like to think over things, ask questions to myself and, in this case, share with other people.
I am starting to study this method, as i wrote couple of days ago, and what i have in mind is IF it suits my way of trading and my expectations, and not just "how much i would like that this method suits my way".
I still didn't find the answer for myself, but as we have different tastes for many things, we probably have different tastes in this.
I understand the reasons why one of the mailstones of this thread is long time-frame (accurancy, study, developing, focusing on the big picture) and it will bring me to take just A+++ setups, but i understand even the other side... (i asked myself the same questions, such as: 1) if i have a job that allows me to build a huge account, why to "risk" it on trading? 2) If i have 1000 euro account, i can't wait 10 years to see it become 10000 euro or i would starve in the meanwhile 3) this setup requires "long" waiting, but still u have to be there in the right moment to pull the trigger, so what if after waiting for couple of weeks i am not there when it's the time, maybe because i am at work?).
I do believe that this method is profitable, i am not so sure about the fact that it's the only working method. This method seems to work for certain people under certain conditions (and that's already a big plus considering that it seems most methods don't). I am still sure that i will find somebody else with 30 years experience working even on the "minute" timeframe. None of them are right, both have THEIR working method.

Then, just to finish... i believe nobody will ever find a full time trader playing with the same "mini" accoung after 10 years because either it was blown or simply doesn't worth doing it (1000 euro to 10.000 in 10 years, such as 5000 to 50.000 in 10 years assuming that trading is my full time job).

So, those were my thoughts... i am not looking either for people who agree or disagree with me, those were just my thoughts. As i said at the beginning, i will see if this method can become MY working method, otherwise, WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS?

Sorry for the long post, just here in Sicily, where i live, there aren't many people with who i can share such thoughts as "trading online" is not that popular.

Have great weekends!!
I don't want a job, i want money!
  • #59,346
  • Edited 1:15pm Mar 27, 2010 4:54am | Edited 1:15pm
Quoting james16
i keep monthly and weekly pivots on paper. you bet they are great confluence ingredients.

jim
I know they are great for the futures markets but do you find them great for forex too Jim? Just curious as the jury's been out for me on that one.
  • #59,347
  • Edited 5:24am Mar 27, 2010 5:06am | Edited 5:24am
Quoting chatzi
Ok I said my bit and still believe that demo is a waste of time, lower time frames will speed up your learning 1000x and using risk management, it would require 70 losses in a row which means you haven't understood the material.

If you still think demoing is the way to go see this post by THE master himself

http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...39&postcount=1

I think that says it all really.

No hard feelings, Im out here too much koolaid.
Hey Chatzi,

Firstly, I completely agree with you on the demo/live thing. Playing for pennies live and playing for demo can often be the same. Each one has its own defenders. Personally I found that when I was playing for pennies live I found it too easy to increase my lot size after a winning run. I just broke my rules and got over happy with it. But I have no strong opinion for others and when I say demo I consider that to include risking pennies live (I should have been clearer about that). I am sure you'll agree that marching in on day one with 2% of your full account is madness. I know you'd never do it, but believe me many people do. That's common sense and not koolaid. So I may not have been clear about this in my post. No disagreement there.

My point to you was subtler than that and I am not sure if you've picked up on it. My point to you, was why are you debating it? Why not just open the demo account, do it, and start posting one hour setups. Instead you've started a debate, got into an argument and now said that you're leaving because of the koolaid. We had a similar thing a few months ago and then as I recall we swapped emails and things become okay.

If a man likes chocolate ice cream and you like vanilla, then just sit in front of him and enjoy your vanilla ice cream. Don't get involved in a debate on the merits of flavour and don't complain that he's making you "drink the choocolate ice cream koolaid". There are plenty of people here who have ignored the suggestions to start higher, they post charts, and Mike and the others comment on them. We occasionally throw in a reminder that our suggestion is to start higher, but no one says "we will not comment on your charts unless you can prove you did your time on dailies"

Look I am as guilty in this as you. Here I sit, engaging you in debating, joining in the tussle, when I could sit quietly and leave you to your opinion. But I really wanted to make clear that this isn't a debate about dailies vs 1Hour. It's a debate about why you are having this debate in the first place. I'd be very happy to talk to you via email, I have done before, and I am not going to try and persuade you to start higher or whatever.

Anyway I think from your message that you're leaving and I genuinely wish you well on your way. There are a thousand ways to learn forex out this is not the only way. I wish you the absolute best with your search.
  • #59,348
  • Mar 27, 2010 5:37am Mar 27, 2010 5:37am
Quoting TiaForex
Hey Chatzi,

Firstly, I completely agree with you on the demo/live thing. Playing for pennies live and playing for demo can often be the same. Each one has its own defenders. Personally I found that when I was playing for pennies live I found it too easy to increase my lot size after a winning run. I just broke my rules and got over happy with it. But I have no strong opinion for others and when I say demo I consider that to include risking pennies live (I should have been clearer about that). I am sure you'll agree that marching in on day one with...
Hi Aaron,

I agree with you, I guess my problem is people saying "wont happen", or I spent x years but I couldn't do it so everyone else must do it this way or you will fail!.

Don't get me wrong the material on here is the best around, i feel the dogmatic approach to timeframes/demo doesn't fit ever-ones personality.

Regarding risk I have said before go in with 0.5% first on maybe half your money, you will have to take 45 losses in a row to lose 20% of that half. At most you may lose a few % while learning the ropes, but its worth it to get the live trading experience.

With timeframes, I would agree if you can find enough setups using multiple markets then maybe it is worth it but maybe start trading hourly on 0.1% then slowly ramp then % up once your confidence is up.

Regards

Chatzi
  • #59,349
  • Mar 27, 2010 5:50am Mar 27, 2010 5:50am
There must be a thousand ways to trade forexeople oughta stop flitting about and stick with SOMETHING.I used to use pin bars , now i just trade the touch and i do listen to economics and pay very close attention to it. Does that make it a crime? i dont think so, incorporate these setups into your trading style. i backtested pin bars on cable weekly a while back and with a R:R of 1:1.5 56% profitable- add in discretionary confluence and you have a nice win %.

Jim, just personally, i think trading price and price only is a bit ignorant- you guys make money with just price and i guess i oughta shut up but i can't trade confidently without feeling i analysed the setup in every way possible: i want absolutely everything to line up with a trade- trend, retracement, and economics, economics is a killer confluence much better than a 50% fibo,imo.

risk wise, nobody ever got rich with just 2% risk, once you get rich it makes sense to get consistent conservative 30-40% annual returns risking 2%, or less even. But those trading micro 1000 accounts risking 2%, get a sack, wait until EVERYTHING lines up, not A+,A++, or A+++ , but A++++ : then you load up and win.
  • #59,350
  • Mar 27, 2010 6:50am Mar 27, 2010 6:50am
Quoting james16
well you have my best wishes and i appreciate your time in the thread.

if you accomplish the following you would be the first i would personally know of in 28 years in this business.

1. start out with a small account.

2. start out on intraday and not blow your account.

3. or still be trading the SAME non blown account 10 years later.

wont happen.
Ok, please can I ask this: I totally get the idea of longer imefrmes meaning the pressure is off, we don't have to watch screens all day. I understand Jim has to cater for people who hve never seen a chart ever in thier life right though to people who have studied aready for a decade and now see the simplicity of J16 method.

So.... going back to the higher/lower timeframe debate: are you saying that without dubt, in your 28 years of experience, in every chart, in every market, in every way, that higher timeframe setups (DHLC, pinbars, inside bar, all of the ones you teach early in the forum) are ALWAYS MUCH MORE RELIABLE AND LIKELY TO GO WHERE YOU THINK than the same setups on the lower frames?

Is this essentially the reasoning?

If so, it makes sense everyone here is trading daily/weekly and maybe 4hr at times, but the seniors in this thread aren't really "pushing" tha argument... they are pushing the "start slow trade 3 times per month" argument. You can see why some then say "look, I get it, but I cannot see why I can't look for loads of setups on, say, 1h charts".

So is that it then? Can you honestly say hand on heart the whole "higher timeframe" teaching is because these signals REALLY REALLY have the highest chance, much more than the lower??
  • #59,351
  • Mar 27, 2010 6:55am Mar 27, 2010 6:55am
Quoting chatzi
I think if you go in guns blazing intraday, then you will inevitabley blow out, but taking A setups, small risk, then I don't see the danger, still treat like a business.




News was mentined , but all you do is stayout when news is due.

I feel the same, I'm really struggling to understand the argument for longer frames ad waiting decades for account growth UNLESS it can be proven/stated from someone with vast experience that longer frames setups DO have huge stastical advantage over lower.

I could post 2 pin bars at wonderful place, 2 dream entries, but without knowing then you woldn't know what was 4hr and what was the weekly.

Could anyone answer? Do we lose our probable edge in the lowers?
  • #59,352
  • Mar 27, 2010 7:36am Mar 27, 2010 7:36am
Quoting chatzi

I guess my problem is people saying "wont happen"

Chatzi
When you'r on public forums you have to face it. But just do what you think is right for you.
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  • #59,353
  • Mar 27, 2010 7:47am Mar 27, 2010 7:47am
Hi Guys,

I trade just daily set-ups and am doing quite well. I always trade with the trend which is usually clear to see using the zigzag indicator on my charts.

My question is which is the best time frame to confirm the dialy trend? Is it the weekly, the H4 or both?

Thanks

Glynn
"Fail to prepare, prepare to fail."
  • #59,354
  • Mar 27, 2010 7:57am Mar 27, 2010 7:57am
Quoting james16
yes at the open of the new day. on a weekly you want to look at the appropriate time also. as i said in another thread these pin bars are best i think for actually playing on 4hr, daily and weekly charts. i like to use them on intraday to set up and let me know which side of the market to trade my intraday systems. they are fine on intraday but you must be nimble and really cherry pick the ones you trade. its day trading after all. jim

.....from Jim in September 2005

This is my point, forgetting anything lower than 4hr, fair enough, bt surely 4hr pins and PPZ give many many more A+++ setups??
  • #59,355
  • Mar 27, 2010 8:30am Mar 27, 2010 8:30am
Well nobody want's anyone to trade the Weekly/Daily for 10 years on micro or demos. why would one? LOL

When you start on daily/weekly charts observing PA and S/R behavior for bar after bar after bar.....,

..............Opening your charts every day and knowing whats been happening for last few weeks/months.........

.........Only after some months you'll start to see many price patterns repeating themselves over and over again.

When i say patterns i don't generalize the term for triangles or breakouts etc,

What i mean is that you will start to see things that will naturally come out of your own psychology. They will automatically suite your personalty . You will start to know yourself more.

THE WHOLE POINT IS THAT JUST GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE, WILL YA????????????

Could it happen on 1h or lower?
I cant tell for anyone else but surly not for me.

I used to draw TL's, PPZ's and Fib's etc on my 1H charts and next day i would be sitting next to my screen thinking that why they are on my charts. lol .
Cause those 1h are to fast for me to trade them. Maybe i am mentally a little slow but that's how it is. You close your chart in night and next morning there could be a complete different picture.

Just my thought's.
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  • #59,356
  • Mar 27, 2010 8:39am Mar 27, 2010 8:39am
Quoting nasir.khan
Cause those 1h are to fast for me to trade them. Maybe i am mentally a little slow but that's how it is. You close your chart in night and next morning there could be a complete different picture.


.
thanks for your reply, so then for you it's about speed of price movements, not about statistically better setups.

This i what I'm trying to get to the bottom of: either J16 followers trade larger frames because they can't/wont trade speedy charts OR larger frames are statistically "better" setups.... I fail to believe it's both, it's one or the other. For you, it's the first reason, not the second, thanks for sharing.

Anyone else agree/disagree?
  • #59,357
  • Mar 27, 2010 8:41am Mar 27, 2010 8:41am
Quoting triggerju
.....from Jim in September 2005

This is my point, forgetting anything lower than 4hr, fair enough, bt surely 4hr pins and PPZ give many many more A+++ setups??
Did you ever noticed where the $ sign is ???

on your Keyboard.

But the word dollar itself also starts with D.
.
  • #59,358
  • Mar 27, 2010 8:54am Mar 27, 2010 8:54am
Quoting triggerju
thanks for your reply, so then for you it's about speed of price movements, not about statistically better setups.

This i what I'm trying to get to the bottom of: either J16 followers trade larger frames because they can't/wont trade speedy charts OR larger frames are statistically "better" setups.... I fail to believe it's both, it's one or the other. For you, it's the first reason, not the second, thanks for sharing.

Anyone else agree/disagree?
Well you can't actually count me in. I don't trade PA setups most of the times. I do take them if they are there but i don't wait for them. I just watchout for confluence zones and monthly/weekly/daily PPZ's. BUT that's a different story.

If you go down to 5M time frame you will see many great setups failing. You go to 15m less will fail and so on, and when you reach daily/weekly it's reduced to 1 out of 10.

But as Tia puts it, you need to do it to see it. Asking people at public forums won't do it.

JUST GO FORWARD AND DO IT.

and see what works for you.
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  • #59,359
  • Mar 27, 2010 9:01am Mar 27, 2010 9:01am
Nasir

Great post - I see PA for you is a bonus, the PPZ are what you trade, and THAT'S probably why you get more decent trades than the couple per month daily PA will give you over a few pairs... Chatzi, I think we both need to take note!

So ok you say the higher you go up frames the more reliable the setups get, that's cool.

JUST GO FORWARD AND DO IT. - lol yes best advice anyone can give, thank you.

I do believe tiny lots instead of demo will help you learn faster.

So I'm gonna just go and.... do it
  • #59,360
  • Mar 27, 2010 9:11am Mar 27, 2010 9:11am
Thing is, ultimately, PA (most other stuff) is just relative to your data provider/clock settings/chart settings etc... you may see a pin, I don't, just because my FX day starts a few hours later than you. Who's right?

You may not see a daily pin (1440 minutes in 1 daily bar) yet if change the chart to 1600 mins (for example) suddely BAM! A lovely pin appears! Who's right?

We both plot a 365 average yet you use a provider with a "sunday bar" in it, I don't. Our averages don't therefore line up. Who's right?

I see divergence on my MACD because I've adjusted the settings, you stuck with the defaults and don't have divergence. Who's right?


It's all just relative to your chart plot. I think PPZ being horizontal isn't relative to anything, but is always there. That's why PPZ is king as far as I can see (and so must be true way to trade), eveything else is.... just our opinions.
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