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10 to 1 You're done...

  • #41
  • Jan 24, 2010 6:44pm Jan 24, 2010 6:44pm
Quoting magnumfreak
I can't wait for 10:1 to go into effect. It will help to get rid of all of these lottery mentality geniuses that have infected Forex. You can still take 1,000 dollars at 10:1 and turn it into a nice balance. There is no valid reason someone with a 1,000 account should be trading mini's or larger.
Problem 1:
Actually, a person with $1000 account could easily trade minis. Minis are $1/pip, so a person trading a tight TF with a 20 pip SL could easily maintain a 2% risk.

Problem 2:
The assumption that someone with a $1000 account only has $1000 to trade with. With the lack of broker deposit insurance, it's a wise idea to keep what money you can in an insured account.

A person with a $100,000 in trading capital might only wish to risk $10,000 on any one broker, but might want to make trades based on their overall trading capital. This rule would force them to increase their risk.

Not everyone that trades with high leverage has a lotto mentality.

Problem 3:
The CFTC's ruling will not eliminate high leverage trading, it will only shift it overseas. A broker can establish a foreign branch or "partner company" (depending on specific legal details) and simply register as an introducing broker with the NFA to keep compliance. It's quite trivial, given how artificial national boundaries are on the web, to walk around this ruling.

All such a rule does is force people to increase their risks in order to maintain their current trading style. Ironic, given the CFTC's stated purpose.

Problem 4:
We should be focused on educating people, not playing to stereotypes. The idea that high leverage equals risk is only true when people don't know how to manage their risk. By playing into this, we reinforce a false premise and only serve to confuse people further.

This rule does not reduce risk, nor does it teach people the importance of risk management, nor does it do anything to dissuade the lottery mindset. All it does is slightly increase risk and play into a bad stereotype.
  • #42
  • Jan 24, 2010 6:52pm Jan 24, 2010 6:52pm
Very well said!

Quoting Rabid
Problem 1:
Actually, a person with $1000 account could easily trade minis. Minis are $1/pip, so a person trading a tight TF with a 20 pip SL could easily maintain a 2% risk.

Problem 2:
The assumption that someone with a $1000 account only has $1000 to trade with. With the lack of broker deposit insurance, it's a wise idea to keep what money you can in an insured account.

A person with a $100,000 in trading capital might only wish to risk $10,000 on any one broker, but might want to make trades based on their overall trading capital. This...
  • #43
  • Jan 24, 2010 7:09pm Jan 24, 2010 7:09pm
Quoting magnumfreak
I can't wait for 10:1 to go into effect. It will help to get rid of all of these lottery mentality geniuses that have infected Forex. You can still take 1,000 dollars at 10:1 and turn it into a nice balance. There is no valid reason someone with a 1,000 account should be trading mini's or larger.
What made you change your tune magnum. You were against having your freedoms taken away before. Now your on the force other people to do you what you think is right bandwagon.
  • #44
  • Jan 24, 2010 7:10pm Jan 24, 2010 7:10pm
Quoting onu
I knew at least 7 fellow traders who wrote them, none of them got published so far...

Dictatorship and censorship are going hand in hand...

---------------------------------------------
http://www.myfxbook.com/members/pc8multifx

my letter was not amoung the published list either!


Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
Ayn Rand

Evil requires the sanction of the victim.
Ayn Rand


Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual).
Ayn Rand
  • #45
  • Jan 24, 2010 7:15pm Jan 24, 2010 7:15pm
Quoting magnumfreak
Leverage is misunderstood by most traders. 400:1 is no more risky than 10:1. I have always traded with the highest leverage that brokers allow. I do not risk more because of the available leverage. What it allows me to do is when a trade is funded (i.e. stop at break even) it gives me the ability to open another trade if I want. Where people get burned on leverage is they risk more because they see that they can buy more.
Above was originally posted by magnum. He was converted to the dark side lol
  • #46
  • Jan 24, 2010 7:21pm Jan 24, 2010 7:21pm
Quoting Brunite
To be perfectly BLUNT........EVERY member of this site NEEDS to send a letter or email expressing their displeasure with these proposed changes.

The failure to do so could have the net effect of making YOU part of the silent majority; which if there is one, may be what allows this crazy overreaction to occur.

We all need make time over this weekend to put something in writing, no matter how short or to the point, expressing your displeasure.

As the old saying goes; "Those who do not vote lose the right to complain about the results."

Don't...

There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.
Ayn Rand


We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force.
Ayn Rand


Evil requires the sanction of the victim.
Ayn Rand


Dont stand around and shake your heads, send the cftc your letters opposing this evil!

protect your rights!
protect your freedoms!
protect your leverage!
  • #47
  • Jan 24, 2010 7:43pm Jan 24, 2010 7:43pm
It's simple really :-


IF the USA is a Free Country then.......

The firstly it should be upto the Companys / Brokers to decide how low / high they want there margin requirement, the Margin requirement is there mainly to prevent accounts going negative in extreme NFP type moves.

Then secondly what the person trading want there margin to be, below / same as the Broker ofcourse.


How a free person wants to use / spend / waste his money is entirely upto him, there is no rule stopping you from wasting 100K on a porsche or giving it to charity why stop this.
Nothing to it, but to do it!!! Stick to the plan FOOL!!!!
  • #48
  • Jan 24, 2010 7:54pm Jan 24, 2010 7:54pm
BINGO! That's what I've been saying. It's about Freedom to choose.

Quoting samarrone
I beleive alot of people are also missing another fact of this proposed changed, THEY ARE TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHTS. They want to enforce how you will trade and with how much.
  • #49
  • Jan 24, 2010 8:07pm Jan 24, 2010 8:07pm
How about closing every casino in the country or limiting what each person can gamble to $100 per person
  • #50
  • Jan 24, 2010 8:29pm Jan 24, 2010 8:29pm
A few relevant quotes...

No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session. - Judge Gideon J. Tucker

The people I distrust most are those who want to improve our lives but have only one course of action. - Frank Herbert

Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soapbox, ballot box, jury box, ammo box - use in that order.

Quoting mofuniverse
How about closing every casino in the country or limiting what each person can gamble to $100 per person
http://missouri.statesite.com/mo_casinos.html

Mo Gambling Age Limits, $500 Every Two Hours Mo Limit
Riverboat gambling, legalized in 1992, has changed a great deal since then. Riverboats no longer must leave dock and patrons can "board" or "disembark" as they want. Missouri has a "$500 loss limit" law. Gamblers can buy tokens up to $500 value beginning at 8am and can only purchase more tokens each at 2 hour interval. For instance one could purchase $500 worth of tokens at 9:30, another $500 at 10, but then would have to wait until 12 to purchase any more tokens. Additionally one must be at least 21 to gamble in Missouri.
  • #51
  • Jan 24, 2010 8:57pm Jan 24, 2010 8:57pm
LOL. Yikes! wow adults getting helped accross the street by the government oBAMA shoud just do the right thing and step down
Quoting Fx_Genius
A few relevant quotes...

No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session. - Judge Gideon J. Tucker

The people I distrust most are those who want to improve our lives but have only one course of action. - Frank Herbert

Four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soapbox, ballot box, jury box, ammo box - use in that order.



http://missouri.statesite.com/mo_casinos.html

Mo Gambling Age Limits, $500 Every Two Hours Mo Limit
Riverboat gambling,...
  • #52
  • Jan 24, 2010 9:09pm Jan 24, 2010 9:09pm
Quoting pipmutt
Your numbers are out of whack but you're right, leverage is a tool, and in the hands of the inexperienced it can be a dangerous tool as you've demonstrated in your examples.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about though, 10:1 should be sufficient for most traders who are adequately funded, it only becomes a problem for the underfunded trader who is attempting to produce unrealistic returns in the hope he can live off trading with only limited capital.

The 'nanny state' argument might be a different thread for a different forum...
What's all the fuss? I have a 60k account..I trade 10 standard lots and average 10 pips a day and make close to 20 k a month. If this rule goes into effect, I now how to have a 600K account to do the same thing. Just because you probably trade mini-lots and it won't effect you, don't assume that people who make real money won't get affected. This isn't a stupid little game to me...
  • #53
  • Jan 24, 2010 9:11pm Jan 24, 2010 9:11pm
Hello All,

This is just a total joke. While I agree with the 1st 2 sections, the third section about 10:1 leverage is just a joke.

We do not need babysitters. Let the traders learn on their own about how manage the trades otherwise they will never learn.

Also, I believe that this petition :

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/for...-rin-3038-ac61

has some valid points. The author admits he copied & pasted from a blog on the babypips site but he also makes some of his own points known.

Im not sure how much it will help but I signed it.

Thanks
“Control, control, you must learn control!” - Yoda
  • #54
  • Jan 24, 2010 9:28pm Jan 24, 2010 9:28pm
Quoting Fx_Genius
Mo Gambling Age Limits, $500 Every Two Hours Mo Limit
Riverboat gambling, legalized in 1992, has changed a great deal since then. Riverboats no longer must leave dock and patrons can "board" or "disembark" as they want. Missouri has a "$500 loss limit" law. Gamblers can buy tokens up to $500 value beginning at 8am and can only purchase more tokens each at 2 hour interval. For instance one could purchase $500 worth of tokens at 9:30, another $500 at 10, but then would have to wait until 12 to purchase any more tokens. Additionally one must...
1) I will make them a deal.

They leave my leverage alone, and i will wait at least 2 hours between funding (refunding) my account.

2) ifyou dont like MO rules, you can go to LA or LV, which is what passage of this legislation will result in.

MO is the "show me" state, and we will be showing the government the expatriation of our dollars, then our families.
  • #55
  • Jan 24, 2010 9:39pm Jan 24, 2010 9:39pm
Quoting mofuniverse
How about closing every casino in the country or limiting what each person can gamble to $100 per person
i lived in vegas for a coupple of years. I would love to see the gov just TRY to shut them down!

Will never happen!

we dont have online gambling because it was effecting LV profits, this is an attack from the cme as the want the money from forcing us to trade on thier "tables"

protect freedom & petition the cftc

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/for...-rin-3038-ac61

All it takes for evil to flourish is good men to stand by and do nothing.
  • #56
  • Jan 24, 2010 9:59pm Jan 24, 2010 9:59pm
This was sent to me by a colleague:

"To open a live Alpari (UK) account, first choose your trading account, trading platform and then tell us the nature of your account using the online form below.
Full details regarding our services can be found on our Trading Accounts or Trading Platforms pages.
Please make sure that you familiarise yourself with our Customer Agreement, Terms of Business and Risk Disclosure detailed in next step. You will also have the opportunity to print our application form and apply offline.
Due to global banking and regulatory restrictions, we are unable to process any applications from residents of the following countries / territories: United States (except Eligible Contract Participants), Sierra Leone, Equatorial Guinea, Afghanistan, Somalia, Cuba, Syria, Cote d'lvoire, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Myanmar, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Liberia and British Columbia (Canada). "

Notice the "nice" bunch of hell hole countries that we are lumped together with.

(Emphasis is mine)
Scarlett
  • #57
  • Jan 24, 2010 10:10pm Jan 24, 2010 10:10pm
Quoting Scarlett
This was sent to me by a colleague:

"To open a live Alpari (UK) account, first choose your trading account, trading platform and then tell us the nature of your account using the online form below.
Full details regarding our services can be found on our Trading Accounts or Trading Platforms pages.
Please make sure that you familiarise yourself with our Customer Agreement, [b]Terms of...

yea, and look at who they define as "Eligible Contract Participants".


"Eligible contract participant

The definition of an Eligible Contract Participant includes financial institutions, insurance companies, commodity pools and wealthy individuals."

"
(xi) an individual who has total assets in an amount in excess of--


(I)

$10,000,000; or


(II)

$5,000,000 and who enters into the agreement, contract, or transaction in order to manage the risk
associated with an asset owned or liability incurred, or reasonably likely to be owned or incurred, by the


individual;"

Another attack on the common man.

Upper classes are a nation's past; the middle class is its future.
Ayn Rand


The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
Ayn Rand

  • #58
  • Jan 24, 2010 10:36pm Jan 24, 2010 10:36pm
Quoting Rabid
The assumption that someone with a $1000 account only has $1000 to trade with. With the lack of broker deposit insurance, it's a wise idea to keep what money you can in an insured account.

A person with a $100,000 in trading capital might only wish to risk $10,000 on any one broker, but might want to make trades based on their overall trading capital. This rule would force them to increase their risk.
I'll bet the vast majority of the loudest protesters are the sub-5k kiddies who use the forex market like a glorified amusement arcade, you only have to read some of the posts in this and other threads to get an insight into their mentality!

If safety of funds is a concern and a genuine reason to argue against this proposed legislation then there are alternatives such as trading exchange traded instruments, or for the bigger fish there are lines of credit or bank guarantees, there's no need to deposit large sums of money with a broker. From memory I believe multiple-market brokers such as IB offer some protection for their forex clients by sweeping excess funds from clients forex accounts and transferring them to (SiPC?) protected accounts.

If people want to petition they might be better of petitioning about something which has some merit, such as providing the same level of fund protection to forex broker client's funds as is offered to non-OTC market broker's clients, that would make more sense and be a sound argument.

I'm fortunate in that I have the bulk of my funds with FSA regulated brokers where 100% of deposits up to 50k are protected by the FSA and FSCS, which is also an option for non-uk resident forex traders as well as far as I know.

What's next, protest against speed limits, the age of consent, and alcohol licensing laws, in the name of 'freedom of choice'?
  • #59
  • Jan 24, 2010 10:48pm Jan 24, 2010 10:48pm
Quoting pipmutt
What's next, protest against speed limits, the age of consent, and alcohol licensing laws, in the name of 'freedom of choice'?
Speed limits used to be 55 nationwide. Now 75 is not uncommon and montana is an autobahn durring daylight hours.

Age of concent keeps bouncing around and differs from state to state.

We once had prohibition, now you can go to the mart and get a bottle.

All changed due to activizm and people wanting the FREEDOM OF CHOICE!!!

Next time make an argument that does not undercut your position and is based in logic!

Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
Ayn Rand

Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual).
Ayn Rand
  • #60
  • Jan 24, 2010 10:58pm Jan 24, 2010 10:58pm
Quoting Mr Pipster

Next time make an argument that does not undercut your position and is based in logic!
Ha, right back at ya!

Despite protest there are limits on freedom of choice, it's no different in this instance. No-one is suggesting banning leverage altogether, just limiting it to what most professional traders would agree is a perfectly acceptable and functional 10:1.

If you don't like it then there are alternatives, no-one is stopping you using those alternatives, that's freedom to choose in itself isn't it?
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